Harassed by " The Man "

[team sidewinder]

The story I use when some authority " The Man " questions me about my metal detecting on public property ( usually a park or tot lot ) in a different town than my own where I really don't know what the metal detecting laws are. I tell them this story. I make sure I don't have my wedding band on and tell them I just lost my wedding band the other day while in this park area and I am trying to find it. Or my wife lost her wedding ring while we were visiting here the other day. Or while here in this " tot lot " with my grandkids ( I really don't have any ) I just lost my wedding ring and am looking for it. Works every time but you might not want to use it more than once in that town but usually they will tell you to continue and not do it anymore and will let you at least finish looking in that area. Most police are very sympathetic to the plight of a man/woman who is looking for a lost wedding ring. They don't want to look as a town who doesn't welcome visitors or treats their visitors like criminals without just cause.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

..... But if asked to stop even on public lands I would comply- ...........
Sometimes you have to defend your rights, as a good citizen you should always be prepared to do so.

I find that I actually don't face that much grief when hunting turfed parks (silver hunting for deep silver). But then again, I've learned after 35+ yrs. of this, that turfed parks do... uh ... have connotations (when we're perfectly honest, let's face it). So while you and I may know we're going to leave no trace, yet the lookie-lou, it's might look like you're about to leave holes. So to be honest with you, it's gotten to where I hunt turfed parks at odd hours. Like after 5pm, or ... even at night (so peaceful, so serene ). NOT because there's necessarily any law or rule specifically saying "no detecting", but JUST so that I'm not wearing a big red "x" on my back begging for attention.

So sure, if any of us goes waltzing over beach blankets at an archaeologist's convention, SURE someone's gonna gripe. But for pete's sake, lets not swat at hornets nests. A little discretion is in order, NOT grovelling at every city hall we come to , begging for someone to tell us "no".

 

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[RotZorn]

Tom, I have yet to have anyone bother me anywhere I have detected, but I'm expecting it to happen sooner or later. How I handle it will be completely based on how they choose to handle me.

I'm a really nice guy until you intentionally step on my toes?!?!

 

[luke3026]

As a newbie to this hobby, I find this discussion very interesting. I've been at this a little over a month and I haven't been hassled by anybody yet, but I expect it will probably happen eventually. I was hunting the playground/ballfield of the elementary school a few blocks away an afternoon last weekend when a cop car rolled through the grounds, around the school. I figured "Well, here we go." But he just rolled by, glanced at me, never even slowed and went on his way. Half hour later, he came through again (slow news day in town I guess), and kept going. And hunting another park, an older gentleman with is grandkids struck up the usual friendly conversation ("Finding anything?"). He even asked me if I ever tried the big county park down the street. I told him that the county parks were off limits to MD's and he couldn't believe it. "The stinking government!" he says.

But I tend to go out very early in the morning (like 6am) when no one's around, or during the afternoon when it's too hot or raining or whatever. I have to say though, that the whole "looking over my shoulder, waiting for a hassle" aspect is the one part of this hobby I'm not entirely comfortable with. That said, I'm not too eager to go asking the powers that be if it's okay, because it's been my experience they're usually just looking for an excuse to say "no", and then the whole town is shut down for the hobby right on the spot. Because, really, what's in it for them to say "yes"? It opens a can of worms to have folks crawling around the parks digging holes (since as we know, not all MDers practice proper techniques). If the say "no", they *maybe* piss off a handful of MDers (there can't be more than a few of us in my town of 6000 people).

I've researched the town park codes of the surrounding towns. Of course, none mention MD's, but a few talk about "digging", "cutting" or "excavating"(!) property or plants. But I consider this a gray with respect to what we do as MDers. When replacing every plug I cut, I ask myself "would a cop or groundskeeper notice a disturbance here?" I don't walk away til the answer to that is "no". And being new to this, I've gone back to previous hunt sites a week or two later, to check the spots to make sure the grass is still thriving, just to confirm my technique.

So I guess I fall in the camp of, as long as there's no "MDs not permitted" ordinance, I'll hunt until asked not to.

 

[dholland02]

I would do the same thing . The police dnt need to know any different. Most of the cops are out on a power trip bc they were nerds in schools.

I admit I havr done this on land I ddnt know who owned it. Land owner came driving by. Simply told the guy I thought this was township property. Works every time.

 

[Frankn]

Sweet! Just lie! Yeah that's the answer!
As long as it serves YOUR greater end, I guess it's ok!

Integrity zero...congrats!

Hay, I got to admit I sometimes wear an orange T shirt that says cleaning crew. Nobody bothers me. LOL Also, I got to admit, honest is the best policy,most of the time. Hay, situation, A guy comes up to you with a gun and says give me all your money. You have $500 in a money clip in your front pocket and $20 in your wallet. Which are you going to give him? Honesty has it's place as with everything else! Frank...

 

[jeweler21]

Back in the early 1970's, I was hunting a high school late one afternoon and the high school principle was still in his office. He came out and asked me what I was doing. I explained to him that I was searching for lost coins and jewelry. He said that I had no right to be there and should leave. I replied that there was no law against it and that I was not going to leave. He went back to his office and called the police. Shortly, a policeman appeared, he sat at a distance and watched me for a few minutes. The principal came out of his office and told the policeman he wanted him to make me leave. The policeman told the principal, he had been watching me and I was doing no damage, there was no law against what I was doing and that I had as much right to there as anyone else. The officer got in his car and left. For years afterward, and still to this day, I hunt that school. The principal is dead now but his only words to me after that evening were "Hello", and no one has ever complained since.

 

[jeweler21]

As a side note to my previous post. I became friends with the grounds keeper and he gave a number of leads on places to search.

 

[beerguy]

Shirt

I sometimes wear an orange T shirt that says cleaning crew.

That is hysterical! Maybe just get a few shirts that say 'STAFF" and everyone will assume that we are 'the help'.

 

[luke3026]

Related to that, I usually wear a USMC hat or tshirt while hunting. Cops tend to treat Marines and other vets a little differently, whether that's fair of not. I figure it can't hurt!

 

[LifeNRA]

begging for someone to tell us "no".

Ahhhhh crap! you got me!!! I never knew someone would have figured out my intentions that I like to have somebody to tell me 'NO"! LOL!!!

Just getting started in all this, I never imagined that I would have to be a liar and a deceitful person in order to go MDing! Looking at certain properties and asking for permission whether it be a city playground or private land has always been my way to do the right thing. Learning to dig a hole with no damage was my highest priority, I have dug MANY holes in my own yard to attest this. BUT! I can tell you that some city OWN properties DO NOT LIKE THE FACT YOUR THERE DIGGING HOLES REGUARDLESS! You can have the magic digging tool, and they will simply ask you to stop, and not do it again! I know, had the parks manager person personally ask me to do this! NOT TO DIG! (cool, the red type is bold like yours! )

I simply just threw out a possible way to avoid any confrontation with police and or park manager. You then take this and spin your views on it, as if I am the person doing the wrong thing. Gee as you like to say, THANKS!!!! (cool, the blue looks nice too! )

 

[Jason in Enid]

Just getting started in all this, I never imagined that I would have to be a liar and a deceitful person in order to go MDing!

Since you are just starting, you should be doing more reading and learning and less giving advice. No one told you to be deceitful, just check the rules yourself. If nothing sayd you can;t metal detect then go detect. Going around begging permission when it's not illegal is just ridiculous.

 

[LifeNRA]

Yeah whatever! I am old enough to know the difference between good and bad, seen enough here now too! Also, old enough to give advice about not lying to police and being an honest person! Really, you say begging too! LMAO!!! There is a difference between begging and asking. You people are funny. Keep trolling!!! LOL!!!

 

[billn1956]

You all are not getting what I am saying here. Why is it so damn hard to just ask? Instead of lying your way through if the police come up to you and ask what your doing? Really. You will get further in life being honest than being deceitful!

First off, this is not about carrying a gun, getting the right kind of permit for a hunt, or whatever outside of MDing! Its about doing the right thing! Some places I have talk to will not allow MDing BECAUSE SOME ******* DUG THE PLACE UP! They ruined it for EVERYBODY!!! Seriously, I am tired of people who have no morals who think that its there right to do anything they damn well please.

State parks here in PA you just cant start digging the area up! You need a permit from EACH individual state park you go into. Even though the land is PUBLICLY owned! Well then lets all go to Gettysburg with our MD's and see how long that will last!

Its all about doing the right thing, period!

As you get older and gain more exsperiance from life your thoughts and opions will change.

 

[RotZorn]

Ok I'm standing on grey ground here! I don't agree with you NRA, nor do I agree with Team Sidewinder!

You guys got your methods, I got my own......
And I could be wrong....... But I'm not.

 

[bzbadger]

Amazing how easily one's moral values are traded off just to dig a hole. Seriously a lie is a lie is a lie and what is being shown to those just starting in this hobby? As far as that statement about just because its not written somewhere doesn't mean it isn't somewhere. Is it not your responsibility to find out what the local laws are, guess what, they are. Plz act like you expect others to act. Just because there isn't a sign for everything you shouldn't do doesn't mean go do it.

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[dholland02]

Amazing how easily one's moral values are traded off just to dig a hole. Seriously a lie is a lie is a lie and what is being shown to those just starting in this hobby? As far as that statement about just because its not written somewhere doesn't mean it isn't somewhere. Is it not your responsibility to find out what the local laws are, guess what, they are. Plz act like you expect others to act. Just because there isn't a sign for everything you shouldn't do doesn't mean go do it.

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If they didn't want u in there detecting they would have a sign simple as that. Why go diggin for a no when you dnt need to.

 

[luke3026]

Well, I certainly don't condone lying to authorities but I'm also not going to call up the powers that be to check every thing that isn't explicitly banned in the park code. (Sitting in the grass reading a book isn't banned, but should I call first and make sure it's okay before I do it. )

I've checked the code in my surrounding towns. Some mention " damage to park property or plants" and some don't. I don't consider my techniques to be damaging. If a cop or park official disagrees, I'll be happy to discuss the issue with them. But, at least here in NJ, asking the local bureaucracy anything typically ends in "no" and opens a huge can of worms.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... As far as that statement about just because its not written somewhere doesn't mean it isn't somewhere. Is it not your responsibility to find out what the local laws are, guess what, they are. Plz act like you expect others to act. Just because there isn't a sign for everything you shouldn't do doesn't mean go do it. ........

bzbadger, I'm having a hard time understanding this:

On the one hand, yes, it's our responsibility to "find out what the local laws are", and yes, little white lies ("I was looking for my ring...") are up for debate (I agree, it would be much better off if we didn't have to deflect busy-bodies to lowering ourselves to such things).

HOWEVER, when it comes to the "find out what the local laws are", think about the implication of that statement you're making: It assumes that there are "local laws". And "laws" HAVE to be written down *somewhere*. No law is "hidden" and it's not possible to see and learn about. For example: If you wore blue shoes to the park, and a cop arrested you "for wearing blue shoes". And you say to him "since when is it illegal to wear blue shoes?" He says to you: It's a secret law, that you had no way to know ahead of time, till we spring the trap on you. And then he quotes you verbatim to back himself up: " ...just because its not written somewhere doesn't mean it isn't somewhere. " You would tell him (and the judge at your court trial): "Nonsense! You can make hidden laws that no one has the right to research and know, and then arrest them for things that they had no way to have known". No laws are hidden in locked cabinets that only authorities know of, yet are waiting to arrest you for.

Lastly you say:

Just because there isn't a sign for everything you shouldn't do doesn't mean go do it.

I don't understand this statement either. Sure, don't have to go kite-flying "if I don't want to". But presuming I WANT TO, and presuming there's no law forbidding kite-flying, then YES INDEED I can "go do it". Why wouldn't I? Why can't someone do something for which there is no prohibition, assuming they want to do it? So I'm lost as to the meaning of this.

 

[Davers]

As for asking ' if you don't start none there won't be none'..I just try to treat all lands public & private as I would my own. & as for answering the questions of nosy neighbors and lookie lou's ...well I just say whatever best suites the situation. LIVE FREE.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

As for asking ' if you don't start none there won't be none'..I just try to treat all lands public & private as I would my own. & as for answering the questions of nosy neighbors and lookie lou's ...well I just say whatever best suites the situation. LIVE FREE.....

yeah, that's it: I treat public lands with the same respect and care I would give my OWN land. And guess what? I *WOULD* detect my own land. Thus .... ergo .... you get the point