Metal detecting technology - question

[adamBomb]

this might be a stupid question but I am fairly new to detecting and was wondering...

It seems that all devices use the same technology to detect metal (VLF). they also seem to use the same power supply (9v battery), which means they can each only use so much VLF power to detect. So if using all metal mode and digging up everything, why would one choose an expensive device over a less expensive one? Theoretically, they should all be detecting the exact same metal, even at similar depths. I currently have the cheapest detector - a tracker IV which i have been using on the beach. Is there a reason to upgrade? I see other detectors try to tell what the object is (dime, quarter, etc) or what kind of metal it is and such, but then people say dig it anyway because those are not always right and you might miss gold. So then why would I buy a detector with those features? I could understand spending more money if it detected metal better but wouldn't they all be the same because looking at the technology, it cannot detect metal better unless it uses more power or a different tech than VLF? I guess I am just confused by all the different detectors out there and dont understand the features and why some are more money than another. It seems the only thing that could possibly be different is the discrimination but that shouldnt matter if you are digging everything, right?

 

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[fella]

All car's run on internal combustion engines right? (yeah I know electrics blah blah blah) Are all cars created equal? NO! Not ANY different with detectors. 9v, 2- 9v's, 4AA, 8AA's…power, advanced circuitry, coil construction….Too much to list!

 

[airscapes]

There are price ranges.. each range has advantages over the one lower.. whether or not those advantages or enhancements are worth the additional cost is up to the buyer.. Kia or Tesla ..
And yes the higher end units go deeper .. they use different frequencies and the higher end stuff use multiple frequencies..

 

[redcobra8u]

this might be a stupid question but I am fairly new to detecting and was wondering... It seems that all devices use the same technology to detect metal (VLF). they also seem to use the same power supply (9v battery), which means they can each only use so much VLF power to detect. So if using all metal mode and digging up everything, why would one choose an expensive device over a less expensive one? Theoretically, they should all be detecting the exact same metal, even at similar depths. I currently have the cheapest detector - a tracker IV which i have been using on the beach. Is there a reason to upgrade? I see other detectors try to tell what the object is (dime, quarter, etc) or what kind of metal it is and such, but then people say dig it anyway because those are not always right and you might miss gold. So then why would I buy a detector with those features? I could understand spending more money if it detected metal better but wouldn't they all be the same because looking at the technology, it cannot detect metal better unless it uses more power or a different tech than VLF? I guess I am just confused by all the different detectors out there and dont understand the features and why some are more money than another. It seems the only thing that could possibly be different is the discrimination but that shouldnt matter if you are digging everything, right?

There is a huge difference in machines..depth being a very important one. Coil design and how the machine processes the information is going to improve as you move from a basic machine to more expensive units. I guarantee your Tracker IV is going to miss things an AT Pro will not. Proved that with a man using a similar machine at the beach over the winter. He was not finding things in an area I was confident there was stuff. Had his kids in tow digging stuff up so I went over the same area just behind him and hit all sorts of clad for his kids. We tried to adjust his machine but it was still missing all but shallow stuff.

Granted you can spend stupid money on a machine and not get the value if you don't take time to learn it or use it regularly. What I have learned is there are really 4 levels of machines. Very basic $50-$200, pretty good $200-700, dam good $700-1,500, and kick butt good $1500++. I have also learned there are some really knowledgable people on this site that will give you some great insight on this subject too.

Finally, the real proof is to look at the finds posted and look at the machines listed on their profile (or ask what machine). Most successful hunters have good machines, spend a decent amount of time hunting, and probably use good techniques. That being said, no reason any VLF machine couldn't find a huge score in shallow sand. Keep in mind that a heavy gold ring tossed in the air throwing a frisbee could easily bury itself 4-5 inches....and with a little foot traffic work it's way down 6-8 in a few days.

Best of luck.

 

[RobRieman]

Your best bet would be to tag along with someone with a high end machine that knows how to use it and let them show you the difference. I think it will be a jaw dropping experience.

 

[adamBomb]

There is a huge difference in machines..depth being a very important one. Coil design and how the machine processes the information is going to improve as you move from a basic machine to more expensive units. I guarantee your Tracker IV is going to miss things an AT Pro will not. Proved that with a man using a similar machine at the beach over the winter. He was not finding things in an area I was confident there was stuff. Had his kids in tow digging stuff up so I went over the same area just behind him and hit all sorts of clad for his kids. We tried to adjust his machine but it was still missing all but shallow stuff.

Granted you can spend stupid money on a machine and not get the value if you don't take time to learn it or use it regularly. What I have learned is there are really 4 levels of machines. Very basic $50-$200, pretty good $200-700, dam good $700-1,500, and kick butt good $1500++. I have also learned there are some really knowledgable people on this site that will give you some great insight on this subject too.

Finally, the real proof is to look at the finds posted and look at the machines listed on their profile (or ask what machine). Most successful hunters have good machines, spend a decent amount of time hunting, and probably use good techniques. That being said, no reason any VLF machine couldn't find a huge score in shallow sand. Keep in mind that a heavy gold ring tossed in the air throwing a frisbee could easily bury itself 4-5 inches....and with a little foot traffic work it's way down 6-8 in a few days.

Best of luck.

Thanks, a lot of good info here. I am learning a lot about this.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

All home computers run on 120v, but some do more than others. ;-)

Figure an average wavelength for a metal detector is 10 mega Hertz (MHz) that has one full wave in 98 feet! So your detector is not using much of a wave to get 8" deep. It ain't the transmit that matters - it's the receive.

 

[DDancer]

Uhm actually VLF refers to the spectrum of 3 kilohertz to 30 kilohertz and wave lengths in the tens of kilometers~ Both the transmitted frequency and power are important and when coupled with a quality receiver and its processing circuits make all the difference in a metal detector. A lot of R&D has gone into both the low end detector units and high end units for the best quality for the price.
All the bells and whistles are improvements or tweeks put into the machines to improve user experience and user data on desirable targets. Anyone with a bit of time, research and technical ability can build a metal detector. I have when I was a kid. The differences in cost are just simple to complex adjustments to the basic metal detection system. The All Metal Mode.

You get what you pay for but in the end its up to the user's experience with cheap or expensive machines as to whether they are happy with what they pay for.

All machines using all metal mode are just the basic metal detection device. And yes you will dig it all. Everything after the all metal mode are tweeks to the data the user is receiving so that they can lessen their time digging junk or just have a better time while out detecting. Performance of the all metal mode will vary from machine to machine and can be tied to price. As a low end machine output power, frequency, receiver circuits and construction of the detector~ie coils, handle, machine housing, arm rest, shaft and internal circuits, ect.~ are being made at the lowest cost by the manufacture. The same goes for high end machines but the difference will be in quality and additional features; and that's what your paying for.

Low price is low power, low quality *as compared to higher end machines* bare bones machine. The learning curve is low.

High price is high power, high quality got all the bells and whistles machine. The learning curve is high and can be frustrating.

Upgrading a machine is, in my opinion, really about improving your detecting experience. Its up to the detectorists to determine what one wants out of this hobby. I suggest starting out with the low end machines. Simple to use and generally rugged you'll learn the basics of the hobby and be rewarded nicely. Upgrade ones machine when you feel your just not getting what your looking for. The more expensive the machine the more you'll have to learn it so by having the basics from the first your already set up to add the advantages of your upgraded machine. Bells and whistles take time to learn but even your new upgraded machine will do exactly what your first machine will so if you get frustrated return to the basics. I've found that those basics are even better than the old machine~ and hence appreciate the difference in my upgrade even more.

Some thoughts. Sorry I got a little long winded. Thanks for reading.

 

[adamBomb]

Uhm actually VLF refers to the spectrum of 3 kilohertz to 30 kilohertz and wave lengths in the tens of kilometers~ Both the transmitted frequency and power are important and when coupled with a quality receiver and its processing circuits make all the difference in a metal detector. A lot of R&D has gone into both the low end detector units and high end units for the best quality for the price.
All the bells and whistles are improvements or tweeks put into the machines to improve user experience and user data on desirable targets. Anyone with a bit of time, research and technical ability can build a metal detector. I have when I was a kid. The differences in cost are just simple to complex adjustments to the basic metal detection system. The All Metal Mode.

You get what you pay for but in the end its up to the user's experience with cheap or expensive machines as to whether they are happy with what they pay for.

All machines using all metal mode are just the basic metal detection device. And yes you will dig it all. Everything after the all metal mode are tweeks to the data the user is receiving so that they can lessen their time digging junk or just have a better time while out detecting. Performance of the all metal mode will vary from machine to machine and can be tied to price. As a low end machine output power, frequency, receiver circuits and construction of the detector~ie coils, handle, machine housing, arm rest, shaft and internal circuits, ect.~ are being made at the lowest cost by the manufacture. The same goes for high end machines but the difference will be in quality and additional features; and that's what your paying for.

Low price is low power, low quality *as compared to higher end machines* bare bones machine. The learning curve is low.

High price is high power, high quality got all the bells and whistles machine. The learning curve is high and can be frustrating.

Upgrading a machine is, in my opinion, really about improving your detecting experience. Its up to the detectorists to determine what one wants out of this hobby. I suggest starting out with the low end machines. Simple to use and generally rugged you'll learn the basics of the hobby and be rewarded nicely. Upgrade ones machine when you feel your just not getting what your looking for. The more expensive the machine the more you'll have to learn it so by having the basics from the first your already set up to add the advantages of your upgraded machine. Bells and whistles take time to learn but even your new upgraded machine will do exactly what your first machine will so if you get frustrated return to the basics. I've found that those basics are even better than the old machine~ and hence appreciate the difference in my upgrade even more.

Some thoughts. Sorry I got a little long winded. Thanks for reading.

Thanks. So since I only search on the beach, what would good low and mid ranged machines be? I currently have the tracker IV and everyone say the F2/Ace 250 are the best low end, but I am not sure if they would really be better than my tracker for the beach or not. I mostly search dry sand and some wet sand, but not really at the waters edge. I find most things a few inches off the sand. I have found cans and such about 8-10 inches down. I turn my sensitivity to 12oclock on the wetsand and that has worked, its at 3oclock on the dry.

 

[Fletch88]

What's you budget?

 

[adamBomb]

What's you budget?

I dont really have one...I could really get whatever in the low/mid range but having said that...I would love to really compare the low to mid end machines. I dont see myself as serious enough to invest in a high end one and couldnt drop a $1000 without the wife smacking me as I just dropped a grand on a new paddleboard last week without her approval and she is still not happy with it. Probably in the $300-$500 range but I would really like to know the low/mid levels to compare them to my bounty hunter to see if its worth the upgrade - I am not sure I really would upgrade just yet but do want to know what is out there. I search about 1-2 times per week on various beaches in my area so its not like I am out there every day and I do have 2-3 other hobbies that take up my money/time.

 

[el padron]

There is a marginal utility, which in this case means the first thousand dollars or so that you spend will yield the most value.
That said there are $1500 machines that are worthless garbage, and $600 machines built so cheaply they should cost $40.

The industry mostly targets unknowing simpletons that get conditioned to subscribe to the culture stating that the expensive machine they bought is not garbage, they simply don't have the hundreds of hours of experience that it takes to operate it correctly.
Consequently many machines hang in garages never to be used again.

The industry is wrought with gimmicks and only now beginning to put some thought into updating technology and promising value.

The basic technology that is implemented in even the latest models, falls light-years behind levels comparable in even basic modern consumer electronics.

 

[Fletch88]

Multiple freq machines handle wet salt better than single freq ones. Here are a few: Sovereign GT or Elite, Safari, Explorer SE Pro, Etrac, CTX3030, Excalibur, and CZ-21 or 20. Or you can go the PI (pulse induction) route with a Sand Shark or Whites Dual Field but wouldn't recommend these for dry sand because you cannot discriminate out anything and pretty much have to dig it all, which is not enjoyable on trashy, iron infested beaches. Good luck and HH!

 

[Fletch88]

El P. I'll give you $40 for your GT or that junky ATX any day your tired of using these overpriced paperweights! Lol

 

[adamBomb]

Multiple freq machines handle wet salt better than single freq ones. Here are a few: Sovereign GT or Elite, Safari, Explorer SE Pro, Etrac, CTX3030, Excalibur, and CZ-21 or 20. Or you can go the PI (pulse induction) route with a Sand Shark or Whites Dual Field but wouldn't recommend these for dry sand because you cannot discriminate out anything and pretty much have to dig it all, which is not enjoyable on trashy, iron infested beaches. Good luck and HH!

Thanks I will check these out. I dont mind digging it all Surprisingly there is not as much garbage on the beaches as I thought. 60% of my finds are probably garbage and the rest are pennies/nickels/dimes/quarters...today after surfing I found 4 quarters in about 2 mins. I love that. Now I just need to find something valuable

 

[el padron]

El P. I'll give you $40 for your GT or that junky ATX any day your tired of using these overpriced paperweights! Lol

Fletch, you have to use something if you enjoy the hunt.
I'm not proud of what I paid for them, but they work well for me...

 

[redcobra8u]

I dont really have one...I could really get whatever in the low/mid range but having said that...I would love to really compare the low to mid end machines. I dont see myself as serious enough to invest in a high end one and couldnt drop a $1000 without the wife smacking me as I just dropped a grand on a new paddleboard last week without her approval and she is still not happy with it. Probably in the $300-$500 range but I would really like to know the low/mid levels to compare them to my bounty hunter to see if its worth the upgrade - I am not sure I really would upgrade just yet but do want to know what is out there. I search about 1-2 times per week on various beaches in my area so its not like I am out there every day and I do have 2-3 other hobbies that take up my money/time.

Garret AT pro. Great in the dry sand.

 

[adamBomb]

Garret AT pro. Great in the dry sand.

Looks like it works in water too! That is definitely one on my radar for sure.

 

[adamBomb]

Just found this post on an older thread on this forum. I guess this is what I was getting at. Do we have any data like this? It just seems hard to sift through machines when we do not know a lot of this stuff. So are there any actual objective tests done by companies or anyone that has actually compared machines? It just seems so subjective as this post says, which is why I was confused in the first place.

Hello I'm new to the site, but I have "lurked" for awhile. I'm interested in the true technical nature of metal detectors, which seems to be a very elusive quantity. What I mean is: the actual field power differences, sensitivity, etc. There is a tech section but no real data on this for the various brands. Fisher is the only company out there which actually publishes this info, but it doesn't do any good since the other companies don't.

I'm not intersted in the subjective reports such as "found a dime at 8 inches" since this is really totally dependent on a multiple of variables. None of the test reports anywhere mention the actual capabilities, objectively, of any metal detector.

And finally, I'm used to technical jumps in electronic technology occurring at a rapid rate. Cameras, computers, phones etc. Who would by a phone today with 12 year old technology? Yet that seems to be the norm with metal detectors. Tesoro, Whites, Garrett, etc.....more of the same re-packaged but with no improvement in actual capability for the last 10 years at least. Maybe I'm asking too much? Is it possible that the extra power needed to get that extra inch of depth puts this type of advance beyond amateur devices? Maybe the capability peaked out 10 years ago. Fisher seems to have a few new products and I'm not sure they are superior in actual performance to what came out a decade ago. Maybe.

But since I can't find actual performance data on the other brands I'll keep searching. For what its worth, I"m interested in gold prospecting in California desert, and meteorite / relic hunting elsewhere. My budget is $1000. I like knobs and dials, I strongly dislike menus and drill-downs to change parameters. As an example, I think the interfaces of the Fisher F5 , or Tesoro Cortez, or White MXT, is about perfect.

I can't find good info on multi-frequency detectors in this range (Safari, VX3) vs single frequency other than subjective hunting reports. Do you really lose depth? How can a detector with one 9 volt battery compete with another using 8 AA batteries? Wouldn't the field strength vary tremendously?

Someone please steer me in the right direction!

Thanks.....