Romania metal detecting question.

[JustKeepDigging]

Hello all! I had a quick question in regards to metal detecting in Romania. My fathers side of the family lives in Romania and they own a bunch of land. They told me to just buy a ticket and I could detect all I wanted. Now, I read online that it may be illegal? Is that so even if I'm on my own land? What's the best way going about this?

 

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[WaterScoop]

I am thankful that I live in America!

 

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[cudamark]

Are there any detecting clubs in Romania? If so, they would be the ones to ask. They're bound to know which areas you can hunt, what rules are on the books, which rules you should always obey, and which ones are safe to ignore. Nothing like first hand experience from those who have to currently deal with it on a daily basis.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom there are many countries were metal detecting is heavily restricted and or forbiden, Romania is one that heavily restricts it and if you do not get permission you end up in p rison.

Law in Romania, related to metal detecting, can be presented in few points:

In order to posses a metal detector in Romania, one has to obtain a non-expensive authorization from the Police (one specific authorization document for each metal detector owned).

After the application is filed, the document is issued within usually 10-20 days.One is not allowed to metal detect in archaeological sites or close to those and the private property has to be respected.

Metal detecting in an archaeological site, without the prior written permission of the Ministry of Culture, is a crime and it is punished by prison time.

All finds older than 100 years are to be surrendered to the relevant authorities within 72 hours. Failing to do so is a contravention and is punished by fine. On the other hand, behaving like an owner (offering, selling, modifying etc.) of the finds is a crime (severe theft) and it is punished by prison time.When a find is legally surrendered to the authorities, the finder is entitled to a reward of 30% of the value of the find. When the find is considered to be an extraordinary one (aategory “Treasure”), the reward is increased to 45%.The authorities have 18 months for releasing the reward.

 

[WaterScoop]

Are there any detecting clubs in Romania? If so, they would be the ones to ask. They're bound to know which areas you can hunt, what rules are on the books, which rules you should always obey, and which ones are safe to ignore. Nothing like first hand experience from those who have to currently deal with it on a daily basis.

I had a link in Post #49 to a Romanian Club Blog here it is again
(It is in Romanian so you do need a Translator)

https://pratmin.wordpress.com/detectie-metale-legislatie-si-acte-necesare-autorizarii-unui-detector/

 

[WaterScoop]

Tom there are many countries were metal detecting is heavily restricted and or forbiden, Romania is one that heavily restricts it and if you do not get permission you end up in p rison.

Law in Romania, related to metal detecting, can be presented in few points:

In order to posses a metal detector in Romania, one has to obtain a non-expensive authorization from the Police (one specific authorization document for each metal detector owned).

After the application is filed, the document is issued within usually 10-20 days.One is not allowed to metal detect in archaeological sites or close to those and the private property has to be respected.

Metal detecting in an archaeological site, without the prior written permission of the Ministry of Culture, is a crime and it is punished by prison time.

All finds older than 100 years are to be surrendered to the relevant authorities within 72 hours. Failing to do so is a contravention and is punished by fine. On the other hand, behaving like an owner (offering, selling, modifying etc.) of the finds is a crime (severe theft) and it is punished by prison time.When a find is legally surrendered to the authorities, the finder is entitled to a reward of 30% of the value of the find. When the find is considered to be an extraordinary one (aategory “Treasure”), the reward is increased to 45%.The authorities have 18 months for releasing the reward.

YUP - that’s what I have been sayin all along ..nevertheless it’s great to hear it from a Moderator.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please remember we are a family friendly forum and that also applies to memes posted.

 

[kiara]

Tom_in_CA
This version I posted was on the ECMD site, so I guess its a shortened and 'need to know' stuff for those interested in detecting there. I've searched for a version online of the law itself but its only available in Romanian (shocking, I know!). I think if anyone were really interested in detecting there the folks at ECMD would be available to help with a translator to help with submitting applications, where to detect and maybe even a group to meet up with as they have a Facebook page and also a contact us section. They're also having a conference this year in Norfolk (I think) for anyone interested in learning more about detecting and legislation in Europe.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Th'r, thanx for chiming in. And for all your work modd'ing the forum. I trust this is a strictly intellectual conversation .

....Law in Romania .... One is not allowed to metal detect in archaeological sites ........

Bear in mind that we've determined that md'ing *is* allowed in Romania. Albeit perhaps "heavily restricted". And as your post #83 says in quotes above: They can't detect in archaeological sites . No different than the USA, eh ? "Unless they had "prior written permission of the Ministry of Culture "

But remember what waterscoop says in #72 :

.... According to the law The entire country is considered an archeological site......

Then it would be interesting to see if the md'rs (which are admittedly there) are getting this " prior written permission of the Ministry of Culture" for each md'ing excursion. Perhaps they are. Lest how else could the machines from the various manufacturers being sold there, get used in the first place ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Th'r, thanx for chiming in. And for all your work modd'ing the forum. I trust this is a strictly intellectual conversation .



Bear in mind that we've determined that md'ing *is* allowed in Romania. Albeit perhaps "heavily restricted". And as your post #83 says in quotes above: They can't detect in archaeological sites . No different than the USA, eh ? "Unless they had "prior written permission of the Ministry of Culture "

But remember what waterscoop says in #72 :



Then it would be interesting to see if the md'rs (which are admittedly there) are getting this " prior written permission of the Ministry of Culture" for each md'ing excursion. Perhaps they are. Lest how else could the machines from the various manufacturers being sold there, get used in the first place ?

Tom it is very easy to check the laws and strictness of those laws in other countries, it is the same in many countries in Europe with a long historical history, as example it is the same in Bulgaria.

Bulgaria. The owner of a metal detector must register his device with the Ministry of Culture (otherwise he shall be punishable by a fine, or even jail time). Searching for archaeological objects requires permission.

Here’s a comment from Bulgarian treasure hunter Кустарников. “Actually, we have another situation – metal detectors are sold legally, and registration is required only if the buyer is an archeological museum and the device will be used during legal archeological excavations.

Searching for archaeological finds in our country is permitted only for local historical and archaeological museums. It’s strictly forbidden for usual people to detect archaeological sites – not only already known places, but also still unknown ones.

The problem is that there are lots of unknown sites in Belarus but the law doesn’t specify where in particular it is allowed to search – in other words, there isn’t such a list of places where it’s permitted to hunt freely. Thus, if you buy a metal detector, you can only perform air tests with it at home, and that’s all”.

I know this as fact, I have a friend who is from Bulgaria and he advised of the extreme difficulties in detecting in Bulgaria.

In many Eastern European countries it is your responsibility to know if a site has archeology history and restrictions, it does not have to be marked and their court and prison systems are not like ours.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Everything you're saying is no doubt true . And so too could we assemble various laws, punishments, dire-sounding language, hoops, etc.... for various places in the USA too. Even some archies who have attempted to say "all public land" in various states here (with some compelling scary language to back up their assertions). I am not denying, nor going to continue to find the "end runs" around other countries verbiage. But it just strikes me that the same type text could equally be found at places, like the USA, where md'ing (assuming common sense employed ) does go on.

 

[WaterScoop]

One World Order is not in full effect yet. Until such times come each country outside the US
Is allowed to make their own laws. If we don’t like their laws then we stay home and enjoy our laws.

To continue this thread...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... If we don’t like their laws ..

Wasn't a question of liking or keeping laws. It was a question of: What ARE the laws. Because we've seen locations before, where it gets casually tossed out there that "such & such place is illegal". Yet , strangely, people are md'ing with zero issues. Or the person who casually tossed out the claim was making a wrong connection of the dots. Or the person who casually tossed out the claim got his info. from a mis-informed desk-jockey (who couched the answer in non-applicable side issues). Thus ... it is a valid topic to look into, for any location. And to ask followup tough questions of the easy rhetorical answers that initially get offered.

As for "beating a dead horse", and adding posts: You're just as guilty as I am, haha. You're a good sport, I have to say though !

 

[pepperj]

Wasn't a question of liking or keeping laws. It was a question of: What ARE the laws.

Laws are different in every country even though they might basically say the same thing. It's how they're applied and carried out by the police/military/security forces.

In 1992 I was in Jakarta on the Island of Java Indonesia[FONT=arial, sans-serif] and many locals gave me the thumbs up when looking at my tattoo on my forearm. After 4 days of this I finally asked a person at our guest house what this about? They thought for a bit and sadly replied the following: " A couple of years ago there was a gang running around the city/Island robbing travellers/foreigners/businessmen. So the western world was putting pressure on the Indonesian Gov't to fix it. They did just that,[/FONT]( This is where simple logics comes into play)[FONT=arial, sans-serif] as the gang all had tattoos on their arms, the police/military just walked up to any man that had a tattoo on the arm and shot them in the head. Men having tattoos were so frightened that they took hot wires and burnt their tattoos off their arms" I saw dozens of men with horrific scars on their arms and this explained it all too well.
[/FONT]I gained a whole new respect for how things work in this world from that day forward as things don't work the same in every country as the end result is obtained differently.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom, just like in America ignorance is no excuse, if your detecting and dig up an artifact you have violated the law in many eastern European countries even if you didnt know it was an archeology site, it is the detectorist responsibility to know they are not digging in an archeology area.

A British father Toby Robyns found out how understanding authorities are when he was arrested for coins in luggage he found on ocean floor while snorkeling with his family on Turkish beach on vacation. They were found in area that was not a declared archeological site as well. He spent 6 weeks in Turkish prison before his release.

Now if your so sure it is easy and isn't against the law feel free to prove how wrong we are, take a vacation to Romania and go detecting. Be sure to let the American Embassy know in advance and have them on speed dial, it is highly likely you may need them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... just like in America ignorance is no excuse,....

Which is why we have md'ing web forums, to discuss and get to the bottom of the issues. Ie.: to NOT be "ignorant". No one here is advocating "ignorance" of any laws. That's the whole point of the discussion, is to find out what is really at stake.

As for the various legal calamities that have befallen folks : By all means: If there are consequences that are known to occur, then by all means: Don't do those actions. Learn from those that went before you, of course. And so too would I "learn from those that went before me" by looking at the local hobbyists, how they do it, and what really goes on.

 

[cudamark]

Even though he hasn't posted much at all in the last 7 years, maybe someone can contact Decebalus here on TNet. He has a banner find silver hoard found in Romania. I wonder if he had a permit to look for it? Did he get his 45%? Is he in jail?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Even though he hasn't posted much at all in the last 7 years, maybe someone can contact Decebalus here on TNet. He has a banner find silver hoard found in Romania. I wonder if he had a permit to look for it? Did he get his 45%? Is he in jail?

And so too did I find examples of show & tell finds from Romania, on various other md'ing forums. Heck, even Youtube, where people there make fun videos in the same way we do. I can only assume they must be going through all the proper channels . Because it wouldn't be hard for officials to track down a person who makes a youtube video

But let's cut to the chase: Even if someone here DID contact a Romanian hunter, who DID find coins over 100 yr. old. And let's say that the Romanian person says "nah, no one cares, it's a non-issue" . And let's say I reported that back . As if to imply that, ... kind of like the NYC $25 law in post #63... not an issue. It still wouldn't fly. It would just result in persons saying "that doesn't make it right" , or "they just got lucky" etc....

However, in the USA we subconsciously do it all the time too. For example: I bet that for every single find on "today's find" section, that was found on any form of public land in the USA, I bet I could find some law that the person was violating. Yes, I agree, they'd be silly petty things. That are never enforced, nor would anyone care about. But that wouldn't stop me from finding chapter and verse laws & listed dire consequences. And I bet I could find links of flukes where persons were "roughed up" for such offenses.

Again: Not saying to throw caution to the wind. And yes, I realize that the USA is NOT like other countries. But on the other hand, if many many hunters there are detecting, then ... at a certain point, it does seem like a person, with careful applications of common sense, could mimic those hunters.

 

[WaterScoop]

Don’t be chicken go for it Tom! What a way to start 2018
You are now waffling.Proove us all wrong so we can learn from you.

Maybe we can even start a GOFUNDME campaign
For your legal bills just in case and if not we will just throw a big party with the money for KING TOM from California.


I’m a giver.
So I’m ending this post with a lovable sloth... because that is the speed at which I think you will jump on this proposal.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Don’t be chicken go for it Tom!

If I were going to fly to Europe to hunt: I have in laws in France and Italy. D/t my sister married a French immigrant , who'd grown up on the France/Italy border. He and I have toyed many times of me accompanying them, on one of their annual trips, where he'd be my guide and interpreter. But .... I bet there's persons who would say it's totally illegal in those countries too, eh ?

So I would have my hands full there first. Heck, I got my hands full here. Buddy and I just discovered a virgin stage stop last fall. Have pulled 20-ish coins out of the site so far: Seateds, a $5 gold, etc....

 

[waynokan]

You need to google "Countries that allow/do not allow metal detecting/metal detectors. I live in Moldova, not to far from Romania, I can tell you from personal experience you need to be very very careful, the primary threat will be from the local mafia--They exist in rural areas--There unfortunately is the possibility of your detector/equipment being taken by someone wanting it for personal use. Using international mail is a substantial risk of the item either being "lost" in the mail or being confiscated by less than honest postal folks. You also need to consider putting your relatives at risk--It can and does happen. I have lived in Moldova several years & have a better than average understanding of what life is in the former soviet republics.