Are YOU a Thief?

[Michigan Badger]

A "thief" is: "A criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it" (WordWeb)

I hunt private property with permission. Many today simply do research and hit the hot spots with no thought of who owns the property. Here's an article that recently appeared in a "free" Michigan paper. I've copied a part for you to read. Beware!

 

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[Gypsy Heart]

Nice to see you made the local paper Badger!
Just kidding....could resist

 

[BuckleBoy]

The theft of the birch bark canoe DOES NOT belong in that article. It makes us all look bad, and it is unrelated. I seriously doubt that a guy with a MD stole a 16-foot canoe.



That sucks...

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hey, there ain't nobody here guilty so I guess this article isn't really appropriate here...right

That article mentions there was this diver ripping off Michigan shipwrecks and when his marriage fell apart his X ratted on him. He got busted big-time.

It's getting so it's not safe to have in ones possession anything that could be traced to any Great Lakes shipwreck or any particular "private" or "protected" site. Many items can be traced back to the source. Nuff said.

 

[IronClad]

Another some-what of a Back Eye for THer's. Totally wrong though as it was on State Forest Property.

I understand that these relics belong to the State, since being on their property and protected by State Laws.


What I don't understand is, " they " won' t ever attempt to locate or recover any of these historical relics, preserve them, or display them. They simply want them to remain in the ground, undisturbed to eventually deterioriate back into the iron and natural minerals from which they came,, unknown by many of us and future generations...

Same thing applies to Rev. War, Civil War, and Indian Artifacts. They don't want them, but they don't want us to have them either.

Sometimes I wish ALL us Treasure Hunters could place our collections of Coins, Jewelry, Relics, Artifacts, etc... on display,,, in one Big Museum for the whole world to enjoy. Imagine the profit that place would
generate.

 

[bomber]

there a lot of it going around if ya read between the lines..example:i was driving around a stopped at a "teardown"and scored a couple of silvers.teardowns still belong to somebody,whether its private or city owned.not pointing fingers but you know who you are ASK PERMISSION!

 

[Jeffro]

The wording in both those stories is just plain ridiculous...

And to think all this time I've been hanging around with a bunch of lowlife theiving metal detectorists!

Hmmph, I gotta find a new crowd to hang out with.... you guys are a bad influence on my fragile mind...

 

[Michigan Badger]

Yes, the bottom line is...if you don't own it and you don't have a legal right to hunt it...you're a thief.

Now, there may some odd situations where this doesn't hold true. Such as the recovery of relics from ocean shipwrecks. As we all know, they tried to say Mel was a crook but he proved them wrong in court. However, this isn't going to cut it on State owned lands.

At any rate, this is what will eventually kill the hobby for the average guy relaxing on a weekend.

Right now there are still plenty of opportunities to hunt but these are private lands with permission from those who have the right to grant permission...NOT renters.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

thanx for posting this article Michigan Badger. As I started to read, I just KNEW that archaeologists were going to be involved. Anytime you run out and interview an archaeologists, of COURSE they will be of the opinion that all metal detecting is wrong. Some of them will even argue that it should be off-limits on private land even! It's gotten to where I'm so jaded, that when I see an archaeologist interviewed for something like this, I do not let it affect my hunting practice, conscience, etc...

It's easy to see why: You see how the article started with federal land/parks there in Michigan, then shifts to state owned parks? The step down to county level and then city level, is an easy one to make. Think that's a far stretch? Where do you think counties and cities get their ideas to formulate their own local codes and regulations? When individual cities have been interviewed (the recent Houstan flap, for instance), notice that they reference state and federal codes. Sure, they're not subject to them, but they can certainly incoorporate them into their local level laws, since they're already written out. It's just like cities who want to know what the going rate of pay is for city employees: They study other cities, county level, state level, etc... to make sure they're competitive, etc... So too is it for drafting laws and codes: They borrow from each other's wordings, court cases, etc....

So for that reason, even though this deals with just one state or just federal, it's a CANCER! The reader can't escape the inference that somehow md'rs are bottom scrunge anywhere they are seen.

Buckleboy, you are right, the canoe stolen out of a museum has nothing to do with md'rs. I can see how they're trying to stretch the logic, but I don't buy it. A coin, unknown to anyone, in the ground, is for all practical purposes, "not existing" till someone comes along and finds it.

 

[Mercury dude]

ok,

there a lot of it going around if ya read between the lines..example:i was driving around a stopped at a "teardown"and scored a couple of silvers.teardowns still belong to somebody,whether its private or city owned.not pointing fingers but you know who you are ASK PERMISSION!

 

[ivan salis]

I think that the remark about the theft of the canoe was wrong -- it can not be said metal detectorist took it --- public ground should be for public use --- the bird watchers get to see birds --the hunters get to hunt --- the joggers get to jog --- so why in gods name do we NOT get to enjoy our hobby? --- the state says it has to save the stuff in the "land" for the future (well what about my rights to see it now? ) --- leave it in the ground for what purpose? the state has not got the money or the manpower nor the desire to dig up and display the history -- so just leave the stuff there till it rots to nothing since the "pro's" can not be the ones to do it ?

I would like for there to be a means we we can legally work -- showing off our finds and even placing them on display with a name tag ---found by ----- on --- of --- 2007 at ----- most MDing folks would gladly work on digs with archie type folks with the finds going to be displayed --- if only the archies were smarter and would use the vast knowledge and manpower that a local metal detecting club could offer to assist in a dig rather than shun and belittle metal detectorist because our names don't end with PHD

 

[Michigan Badger]

Buckleboy, you are right, the canoe stolen out of a museum has nothing to do with md'rs. I can see how they're trying to stretch the logic, but I don't buy it. thanx for posting this article Michigan Badger.

I think the point the author was making is that the illegal collecting of relics in this state, be it on land or under water, is a crime. I didn't post the entire article and that would clear up a lot of this confusion.

This article adds in metal detecting only because that's such a fast growing way to locate relics today.

The stolen canoe thing was just to emphasize the degree to which some will go to gain possession of relics.

So, the whole article isn't really a slam against metal detecting, it's actually a warning to those seeking to take things that don't belong to them.

There are many sides to all this but unfortunately we don't have a Mel Fisher sized find to pay the lawyer fees if arrested. I just posted this mainly as information so more would at least be aware of the trends of the times. Better safe than sorry.

 

[Ken/CO]

In this time when "they" are taking away our rights and freedoms, bit by bit,
I hear a growing attitude that "state lands"," federal lands"," government lands" has replaced the expression "public lands". Do these lands belong to the government, and not the public any longer?

How far will we let "them" go with this?
I've been harassed in our State forests for metal detecting and digging holes (even though I fill them when I'm though), when there isn't any law prohibiting such activity. I'm told that anything I dig up belongs to the State or Federal government.

I quote:
What once "Outraged" will come to be "Tolerated".
What once was "Tolerated" will then come to be "Accepted".
What once was "Accepted" will finally come to be "Endorsed".
What is "Endorsed" will always be thought of as "Policy".
And "Policy" will eventually become "Law".

And all because we've become tolerant.

HH
-Ken

 

[teverly]

Your lucky..most generally in state parks here the only places you can hunt is on the beaches..
And there are laws for our state parks that say no digging ect..even taking out an indian artifact found on top the ground is a nono........

 

[olegator01]

Hey guys(gals) you all know we all have the 10%ters in anything you do. Just try to do the right thing, get permission where needed, take your trash away, cover your dug holes and most of the time it will CYA. Fortunately for me and I got premission from my city/county FIRST, and now I can go anywhere I want in this county and not worry. I had 1 problem and a Deputy Sheriff came by and took care of that. And lets hope the archies die off real soon. As one of you said they only want to let everything return to dust and no one get to enjoy anything from years gone by. olegator01

 

[Ricardo_NY1]

It's obvious that the people in question on the articles pointed outwere hunting illegaly, but it's really the logic that the idiots in charge have that should also be illegal. If there was any intention to retrieve whatever items they are bickering about from the ground, that is a different story, but to argue that they should be left in place (To rot or sink) is a joke. Adjust the law and give honest ethical people the necessary permit to go out and find/save these artifacts. Not leave them sitting and rotting because some retarded big wig in office thinks it's the best idea.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I hate the laws against hunting on state and fed lands as much as anybody. I think we should have the right to hunt anyplace other than cemeteries and the like.

However, trying to see it all from the perspective of the state and feds, I think they have in mind someday digging these sites for relics when those relics are particularly valuable. Many items will never rot away. Iron objects of the Roman Empire are being dug today. Metals buried develop a protective patina that helps preserve the artifact inside.

Right now the state really doesn't have the manpower or money to handle relics in the proper manner. They're hoping that "some day" this will change and there will come a time when these relic resources can be harvested, cataloged, and properly displayed for all to enjoy.

Do I think that day will come? No. I don't see a bright future for America. We've seen our great days and we're on the way down now.

Badger

 

[BIG61AL]

There is a big difference between thief and teasure hunter. The thief is is only about the money. Digging up an Indian burial ground looking for artifacts is theft, looking for dropped coins and lost jewelry is not. Dropped coins and jewelry are essentially abandoned property.

 

[Urban Prospector]

I say their lucky to not get fined for littering. That paper bag and soda can I picked up ,er stole, was left behind by some uncaring ner-do-well just the same as that tobacco can with 20 Merc dimes in it.

 

[Boobydoo]

Thought provoking stuff Badger, thanks for sharing.
Bottom line, anything we do wrong gets so much attention
so, always make sure you have the right to dig where you are swinging.
If in doubt, don't dig it out.
HH!

BDoo