Just Watched Calabashs Rant on American Metal Detector Companies - Page 4
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Thread: Just Watched Calabashs Rant on American Metal Detector Companies

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  1. #46
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
    18,310
    34086 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (8)
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    I have two sites, one is 1,000 acres and no house sites so I got a new Tesoro Tejon, it goes very deep and you don't need a vdi for this site, it's a dig everything site. It should be here by Thursday. I couldn't find a Vaquero for sale. I've had both machines.
    Woodsy, DizzyDigger and billb like this.

  2. #47
    us
    Oct 2018
    Michigan
    Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw and Minelab Equinox 800
    276
    179 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    I have two sites, one is 1,000 acres and no house sites so I got a new Tesoro Tejon, it goes very deep and you don't need a vdi for this site, it's a dig everything site. It should be here by Thursday. I couldn't find a Vaquero for sale. I've had both machines.
    It seems that the Vaqs have completely disappeared from the face of the earth. There was a guy on this forum that offered me a nice one for about $300.00 a couple of years ago. I sure wish now I would have nabbed it up.

    Also, it looks like you grabbed the second from the last of the Tejons. Congratulations!

  3. #48
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
    18,310
    34086 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (8)
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Good thing is I have someone who could fix it if it ever broke. It is a special use machine. Although I did find some really nice stuff with the one I had before. I pulled about 50 Civil War buttons out of this one little place before I got my Deus. Then I got more buttons!
    billb likes this.

  4. #49
    us
    Oct 2018
    Michigan
    Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw and Minelab Equinox 800
    276
    179 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    Good thing is I have someone who could fix it if it ever broke. It is a special use machine. Although I did find some really nice stuff with the one I had before. I pulled about 50 Civil War buttons out of this one little place before I got my Deus. Then I got more buttons!
    I do wonder a bit why you didn't go with the Outlaw seeing that it is a lighter machine?

  5. #50
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
    18,310
    34086 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (8)
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    I like the dual discrimination circuit.
    Woodsy and billb like this.

  6. #51
    us
    Mar 2019
    Lowcountry SC
    Garrett 400
    416
    1389 times
    Metal Detecting
    You can see from my profile that I've been using a Garrett 400. I'm very in tune with it and have found some good stuff. I've been detecting next to mbcuce and his Nox for a year, so it's almost been like an extended experiment. His machine is better, but I don't regret using the Garrett. mbcuce will get on a small spot and spend a whole afternoon digging deep signals, stuff I don't even pick up. So, I get happy-feet and take off walking. As a result, I have a lot of big stuff, low hanging fruit, in my collection of relics. I'm also usually the one, who finds the new areas. Then he comes in and "bottom feeds." The other day I found this tiny bit of silver ring (see below) at a colonial site, so the 400 can do a good job.

    But, my best find, my USA button, was found with the Nox. We were taking turns because the Garrett would not work properly in the muddy conditions where we were searching. Since then my wife has heard a lot of whining about the Nox and on Valentines Day she presented me with a receipt for an Equinox 600. It was snowed-in in Texas but finally arrived today. She's either the best wife ever or she feels guilty about something she's hiding. Either way it's is a win for me - I think. It depends on what she might be hiding.

    Anyway, the point of all this is that the value/performance equation will be different for everyone. I would not have bought myself the equinox and would have continued to have fun, but I'm glad to have it.

    As for American versus Others, I don't know. If a company can get people to pay the same amount for an inferior product, I guess that's just how the world works. If the market tells them that they have to improve, they can just copy a competitor's design. That's also how the world works.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #52
    us
    Oct 2018
    Michigan
    Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw and Minelab Equinox 800
    276
    179 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    I like the dual discrimination circuit.
    Ah, gotcha, I like that feature as well.
    billb likes this.

  8. #53
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
    XP Deus, Tesoro Cibola, Full sized shovel
    18,310
    34086 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (8)
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Here's a question for the real slide rule owning "experts" out there. Any machine has to "process" the signal it gets from the coil. No ifs, ands or buts about that. Now my question, based on logic is this - if that signal has to pass through 10 logarithmic functions to get to your ears or VDI, and another machine only has the go through 4 of the said functions, will you lost either recovery time or depth of target ID in the process? You will lose something, its like jumping over 5 snakes in the woods instead of only 1. Takes time. And effort.

    When thinking of newer cars, some of them will outthink us, so to speak and when they break, it's hells bells. The older ones, you'd go and harshly stare at it and it would be ok - not a literal thing, but I think you get the drift.
    Woodsy, michael NY and billb like this.

  9. #54
    us
    "DIG IT ALL, SAVE SOME HISTORY"

    Jan 2021
    North Carolina
    Whites and Garrett
    45
    96 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Personally... I have NEVER been one to bash a company or detector. I know its about learning your machine and soil conditions. I know I can find something with any machine. Are there some that perform better than others absolutely. I know I have only used Whites and Garrett in my short carrier.. Minus a bounty hunter in the late 90's. I have hunted in many different types of soils, open fields, trashy sites and have done well with a few different machines. I am not saying his video is wrong or misleading by any means. I personally have not ran these test for myself or seen it done first hand. But would be willing to put the DEUS, MINELAB, GARRETT and NOKTA to a VS's test. I am curious to see what they do, how they preform and which one operates the best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman View Post
    What's YOUR opinion? Does he have a good point? I have to be honest, I couldn't believe he's wearing Crocs, and the toilet paper was distracting, but after I got over myself I heard the point he is making. I guess I'm just not as concerned about it. We already know who the posers are - hell, they are self-evident. New guys getting conned? I know it happens, I just.. CROCs? Really?

    Woodsy likes this.

  10. #55
    si
    Nov 2017
    Countryside
    DBP2010, eeTH
    248
    267 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    Here's a question for the real slide rule owning "experts" out there. Any machine has to "process" the signal it gets from the coil. No ifs, ands or buts about that. Now my question, based on logic is this - if that signal has to pass through 10 logarithmic functions to get to your ears or VDI, and another machine only has the go through 4 of the said functions, will you lost either recovery time or depth of target ID in the process? You will lose something, its like jumping over 5 snakes in the woods instead of only 1. Takes time. And effort.

    When thinking of newer cars, some of them will outthink us, so to speak and when they break, it's hells bells. The older ones, you'd go and harshly stare at it and it would be ok - not a literal thing, but I think you get the drift.
    This used to be true with older digital detectors. Modern processor ICs are so fast this is no longer an issue - they can do 10.000 log functions before you can blink your eye, do not worry.
    Woodsy and billb like this.

  11. #56
    us
    fishstick

    Oct 2012
    Indiana
    Fisher F5, T2SE, F2 for the boys, XP Deus
    1,689
    1270 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by SGT WHITEY View Post
    Personally... I have NEVER been one to bash a company or detector. I know its about learning your machine and soil conditions. I know I can find something with any machine. Are there some that perform better than others absolutely. I know I have only used Whites and Garrett in my short carrier.. Minus a bounty hunter in the late 90's. I have hunted in many different types of soils, open fields, trashy sites and have done well with a few different machines. I am not saying his video is wrong or misleading by any means. I personally have not ran these test for myself or seen it done first hand. But would be willing to put the DEUS, MINELAB, GARRETT and NOKTA to a VS's test. I am curious to see what they do, how they preform and which one operates the best.
    CB has a lot a DIF videos for such tests you are asking about.
    Woodsy likes this.

  12. #57
    us
    Bill B

    Sep 2010
    Upstate NY
    Excalibur2,,silver sabre
    592
    826 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Years ago with the $150 fisher 1210x I hit a 1864 2 cent pc.Just shows that sometimes cheap works also
    Woodsy and RustyGold like this.

  13. #58
    us
    Oct 2018
    Michigan
    Tesoro Tejon, Outlaw and Minelab Equinox 800
    276
    179 times
    Metal Detecting
    Welp, after learning that @smokeythecat snuck over to ebay and bought the second from last of the Tejons, I lost control and tipped toed over there and purchased the last Outlaw with the 8-inch donut. With the ED180 on the Tejon and the ED120 on the Outlaw, throw a Vaquero in the middle and you have a pretty sweet little tool kit. New technology is great and I plan on picking up a Nox for some ruff weather hunting this spring, but there is something that can't be denied when it comes to these old classic VLF capacitor beast that just makes for some exciting hunts. Plus I love loaning one to a friend that wants to come hunting but has no detector. The look on their face when you turn one on and tell them to start swinging is just priceless, hehe.

    For a professional treasure hunter, there will always be an extra spot in the garage for an old classic or two. RIP to Tesoro, Whites, and any other companies that fail to keep up with new tech. They will always be in our hearts and dearly missed.

    On a sad note, I do believe that Tesoro could have stayed in business if they would have hammered out some duel tone machines and put a cabosh to the lifetime warranty.
    Last edited by Woodsy; Feb 24, 2021 at 03:32 PM.
    FenderBass and smokeythecat like this.

  14. #59
    Charter Member
    us
    Feb 2005
    MI USA
    Ace 400, AT Pro, equinox 800, Simplex,Vanquish 540
    2,969
    3547 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreenBoy View Post
    This used to be true with older digital detectors. Modern processor ICs are so fast this is no longer an issue - they can do 10.000 log functions before you can blink your eye, do not worry.
    Has been my 1st hand observation that modern detectors [nox, vanquish and simplex] can and do have "recovery speed" issues compared to a simple swing and beep machine like the Ace 400.
    With some tweaking and/or using different modes, this can be mitigated, but it for sure can be an issue.
    I noticed it with the simplex when I was detecting a once in a lifetime street tearout in a historic civil war era facility, when I went to its deepest seeking mode recovery speed was terrible, I switched to "park 2" I think it was and was significantly better. I decided to go with the deep seeking mode but swing at a snails pace, at a spot like that I didn't mind taking half a day and slowly go through it with a fine tooth comb.

    I noticed it with the Vanquish at a beach where I typically like to swing fast, recovery was terrible, tested it with a ring right on the surface and it did not alert 4 swings out of 5, a significant handicap when you want to cover a large area quickly. I didn't want to waste time trying to figure a solution so I switched to the 400, which alerted 5 times out of 5.
    So, while I think both the Vanquish and the Simplex are overall superior to the 400 [and certainly have more features for being in the same price range], it can come at a price that most folks would not be aware of. Really, with any detector, the slower your sweeps the more likely you are to find elusive targets, so people need to keep this in mind depending on what type of hunting they are doing.
    angelito1 and billb like this.

  15. #60
    si
    Nov 2017
    Countryside
    DBP2010, eeTH
    248
    267 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    This is correct observation, but it is not due to speed of ICs, rather it is the concequense of underlaying phisical limitations of VLF machines. It has to do with the sampling time of the circuit that analyse what's comming from the RX part of your coil. This time is usually hard wired in analog devices while it can be set in digital ones, though not always by the end user. If the detector gathers relative small amouth of data before analysing an reporting it, it will work faster, but sensitivity, depth and VDI acuracy will be impared. On the other hand, if amouth of gathered data is large, the maschine will be deeper, more sensitive on small items and it will have more acurate VDI, but the recovery speed will suffer. The detectors are usually designed for the best compromise.

    Let's look at the example: suppose the treasure huter makes one swing per second and covers 1m, using 20cm wide coil. The time coil traveles over the coin is rufly 0.2s. This is the time the detector has to gather the data. If the hunter uses 2s per swing, this would be twice the amouth of data, which could make the difference between signal and no signal. 3s per swing however, might not mean any aditional data since the machine close the sampling interval.
    Of course the solution seems to be in pushing the detector to gether more data in shorter time, but for that the machine would have to run on higher frequency. That means higher power dissipiation and eventualy shorter penetration. This is one of the reasons the prospecting detectors runs on higher frequencies, they are very sensitive, but than again not as deep.

 

 
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