What’s this symbol on historic map?
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  1. #1

    Jun 2016
    22
    43 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    What’s this symbol on historic map?

    I’m researching areas to detect using old DOT maps and I keep seeing a symbol that isn’t on the map legend. Does anyone know what this means? Ive noticed them at different intersections of roads.

    Here’s a link to the original map: https://gis.penndot.gov/BPR_PDF_FILE...ngdon_1941.pdf

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    ca
    Feb 2009
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    Looking at the enlargement of the map system it is a point of reference between 2 markers indicating the milage. So look at one then go down to another one on the same HWY and the mid point it will have the milage recorded.
    That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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    "If it was easy-It would have already been done-Life 101."
    “I treat the outside world as one raw very warm wet chicken that has sitting out too long. wash and sterilize everything me touches.” — pepperj

  3. #3

    Jun 2016
    22
    43 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Thank you!

  4. #4
    us
    Jan 2015
    Morris County, NJ
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    Oooohhhh I love this game, can I play?

    I have two examples that I've been wondering about:
    1. the "S H" is easy on this, it's a School House. But what is the "W S"? I can't figure that out.

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    2. And this is the one I REALLY am interested in getting help with:
    - The "GM" on the left side is a Grist Mill, I think.
    - The "B.S.Shop" is a Black Smith Shop, I think.
    - But what is "COAL BANK" with that upside-down "U" symbol? I am guessing that it's a surface coal mine (and not a bank as in the financial institution), but is it possible it's actually a "Bank" with money?

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  5. #5

    Feb 2006
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    1837 times
    A coal bank could be a surface deposit, but most of the time it will be a structure where coal is stored.

    Time for more coffee.
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  6. #6
    ca
    Feb 2009
    Deus, Minelab 3030, E-Trac,
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    Probably a storage for coal, the #1 heating source for many. Oh you might be a tad young to have the coal growing up.
    WS? Wagon shop,
    brianc053 likes this.
    "If it was easy-It would have already been done-Life 101."
    “I treat the outside world as one raw very warm wet chicken that has sitting out too long. wash and sterilize everything me touches.” — pepperj

  7. #7
    us
    WP

    Mar 2014
    Dallas,GA
    CZ6A
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc053 View Post
    Oooohhhh I love this game, can I play?

    I have two examples that I've been wondering about:
    1. the "S H" is easy on this, it's a School House. But what is the "W S"? I can't figure that out.

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    2. And this is the one I REALLY am interested in getting help with:
    - The "GM" on the left side is a Grist Mill, I think.
    - The "B.S.Shop" is a Black Smith Shop, I think.
    - But what is "COAL BANK" with that upside-down "U" symbol? I am guessing that it's a surface coal mine (and not a bank as in the financial institution), but is it possible it's actually a "Bank" with money?

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    I may be wrong on this but think it's a shaft, like a coal deposit in a "bank" of Earth. I also think that's what the symbol is showing...A shaft. I'm just taking wild guesses based off of poor memory. I live by old mine shafts, in sides of hills, my Grandfather called them "Coal Banks". Maybe just his words...not sure.

    Edit.....It means a coal seam that is exposed at the surface. which makes sense with my grandfathers meaning of it...most mines that I grew up around were where they chased the coal seams, so when looking at the maps they may show the old exposed seam spots that later ended up shafts?. The storage areas he called "tipples(?)". I never asked why.

    The squares on your map are where buildings were. I know this because record of my house says 1910, has a rubble foundation and looks to be built mid 1800's, smoke house, huge underground cistern, etc.... but....I found a county map that shows it lotted and a square in somewhere around 1863 or 4. I haven't found any earlier maps yet. That's when I learned what those squares meant. Record keeping wasn't real important in some areas back then, some were burnt, lost, poor storage, etc....
    Last edited by Nitric; Feb 28, 2021 at 07:24 PM.
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  8. #8
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
    2,102
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Yes, a coal bank is a seam of coal with exposure at or above the surface. I think that symbol below the words indicates the entrance to a mining ‘room’, as in ‘room & pillar’ mining where material is extracted by creating ‘rooms’ across a horizontal plane and ‘pillars’ of untouched material are left in place to support any overburden.

    Note the mining map convention symbol below: “Room & Haulage Level in Bedded Deposit”.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The term ‘bank’ (also ‘bankhead’) also loosely describes all surface buildings at a coal mine. More specifically it refers to a building at the entrance to a mine into which the coal boxes are drawn and dumped into the mine screens, and from there to railway or other transport. I don’t think it refers to a storage facility.
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  9. #9
    us
    WP

    Mar 2014
    Dallas,GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-Coat View Post
    Yes, a coal bank is a seam of coal with exposure at or above the surface. I think that symbol below the words indicates the entrance to a mining ‘room’, as in ‘room & pillar’ mining where material is extracted by creating ‘rooms’ across a horizontal plane and ‘pillars’ of untouched material are left in place to support any overburden.

    Note the mining map convention symbol below: “Room & Haulage Level in Bedded Deposit”.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The term ‘bank’ (also ‘bankhead’) also loosely describes all surface buildings at a coal mine. More specifically it refers to a building at the entrance to a mine into which the coal boxes are drawn and dumped into the mine screens, and from there to railway or other transport. I don’t think it refers to a storage facility.
    My Grandfather talked about "tipples" as being a storage area....I just looked it up and see what he was referring to. A lot of the times he had his own words for things. But it makes sense with what you say. Since there were tracks that lead to the Railroad. So, in a sense he was right talking about the storage piles, but it's where they loaded them onto the trains too. I crawled into some seam mines, and some are where they chased the seam. real short, barely enough room for a mine car, and you can't even stand up, other parts of the mine were what you describe with rooms and Pilars left. I went into them in the 90's young and dumb. They were closed in the late 1800's and soft....You couldn't pay me enough to crawl into one now!! hahaha
    Red-Coat likes this.

  10. #10

    Feb 2006
    1,742
    1837 times
    Thank you for the education, Red-Coat. While my part of the US had little coal mining, the large storage bins locally were known as “coal banks”, as was the ship loading structure near Coos Bay, Oregon. The location is still referred to as Coal Bank Slough. This tiny bit of history is my reference, rather than map legends, which I did not think to reference, as I am busy putting dough together for Tuesday baking.

    Again, thank you.

    Still time for more coffee.

  11. #11
    us
    Jan 2015
    Morris County, NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red-Coat View Post
    Yes, a coal bank is a seam of coal with exposure at or above the surface. I think that symbol below the words indicates the entrance to a mining ‘room’, as in ‘room & pillar’ mining where material is extracted by creating ‘rooms’ across a horizontal plane and ‘pillars’ of untouched material are left in place to support any overburden.

    Note the mining map convention symbol below: “Room & Haulage Level in Bedded Deposit”.

    The term ‘bank’ (also ‘bankhead’) also loosely describes all surface buildings at a coal mine. More specifically it refers to a building at the entrance to a mine into which the coal boxes are drawn and dumped into the mine screens, and from there to railway or other transport. I don’t think it refers to a storage facility.
    Thank you everyone for the comments, and Red-Coat thank you for that great diagram (which I removed from the quote, but kept on my computer).
    I actually know the family who owns the property where that Coal Bank is situated. About 200 yards upstream from the Bank, where the "H.Halstead" mark is, there is a substantial old coal mine that was actively mined until the 1980's. The family still talks of the massive ventilation fans that they could hear from their home.
    I only discovered this map over the past few months, and I haven't visited their home since finding it online. When I go back I plan to investigate the area where the Coal Bank is shown. I know that there is a concrete foundation near there, but that was always described as "the pit" where the father of the family would work on vehicles. I always thought that just meant one of those places where you could drive the car above a cut out that allowed you to stand below the car and work on the underside easily. Now I'm wondering if The Pit had a different origin.
    And no one in the family knew there was a Black Smith's Shop in that area; I can't wait to use the metal detector to see if there are any non-ferrous targets among all the iron that will certainly be there.

    The Grist Mill was also on their property. I got to see it about 20 years ago, before they tore it down for safety reasons. That was also before I was into treasure hunting, so i didn't think to search the area at the time.
    These are the only pictures I can find of the Grist Mill; as you can see it was added onto with cinder blocks, but the map that shows the GM is from 1874, and I know that someone took away the old block stone from the original foundation to be reused.
    With all that debris on the ground I imagine that metal detecting will be a nightmare....

    The fire is them burning all the old timbers...can you imagine....they burned 150 year old timbers. We just didn't know - I wish I could have reused them for something.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #12
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
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    You’re welcome, and very interesting Brian. In case it’s of any use to anyone, these are the tables in full from “Conventional Symbols for Mine Maps” by Lester C Uren in ‘Mining & Scientific Press’ [16 August 1919]:

    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #13
    us
    Wood Butcher

    Apr 2013
    Indian River Co., Fl
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc053 View Post
    Oooohhhh I love this game, can I play?...

    - The "B.S.Shop" is a Black Smith Shop, I think....
    Wouldn't "BS Shop" be a bar, salon or barber shop? Lot's of BS going on in them.
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  14. #14
    us
    Jul 2015
    Southwest PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by PetesPockets55 View Post
    Wouldn't "BS Shop" be a bar, salon or barber shop? Lot's of BS going on in them.
    I'm leaning with Brian on this being a Blacksmith Shop as who would put a barber shop right in the middle of a coal dump and loading area? They did have need of the blacksmith as the carts needed horses to haul them and hence lots of horse shoes, not to mention tools being needed there. Getting a hair cut or drinking in a bar or saloon I think would be more of a town setting.

    As to tipples, it might describe the area where they tipped the carts of coal to be stored or transported by rail.
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  15. #15
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Swaveab View Post
    ... As to tipples, it might describe the area where they tipped the carts of coal to be stored or transported by rail.
    Yes indeedy... more accurately the structure(s) where the coal carts were manually tipped to empty them into railroad hopper cars via chutes. The term continued to be used even after conveyor belts were introduced. These are tipples, on the right of the picture:

    Click image for larger version. 

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