GB and Sensitivity NOT Depth GAS Pedals!

[Michigan Badger]

Most people today seem to think of the ground balance and sensitivity knobs as depth knobs. Sort of gas pedals to make the detector go deeper.

Many hunt with "the pedal to the metal."

The ground balance and sensitivity controls only enhance signals that are already being heard. They don't make signals appear out of nothing.

I like to think of the GB and Sensitivity knobs as hearing aids. By properly adjusting them to work together, I tune out the noise so I can better hear (distinguish) the solid treasure signals.

Have a good un!

Badger

 

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[thompy]

i for one am guilty of cranking the sens. not to unstable proportions but up, most of what i find is not that deep though, generally lots of gravel under the first couple in. or a tough grass root system where finds have a tough time getting through any deeper, but its seems the machines i like are generally noiser than many, MB have you swung any of them fine machines lately? Thompy

 

[Michigan Badger]

You're right Jim.

The smaller the target the more important the ground balance.

I've never hunted nuggets. I'll bet that's a real rush to find one.

With coin sized targets I've found most people crank up the sensitivity way too high. And usually GB isn't that big of deal either for larger objects but there can be exceptions of course.

When I used the Nautilus machines I often found it impossible to ground balance. That's kind of a trait with Nautilus in general. So I'd just set the detector for average conditions and did just fine. After a while that's how I used them all the time. For coins and similar sized items the ground balance fine tuned or approximate made little real difference in good signals.

Many of our finnest machines are factory set ground balance detectors. The factory sets these detectors for average soil conditions. In many (not all) situations this is best because it keeps inexperienced users from making the ground balance worse because they really don't know what they're doing with that knob. To set the detector way too positive can really limit depth. The factory set machines usually solve that extreme problem. The detector is at least ground balanced somewhere within reason.

This is why people using the Ace 250, Silver uMax, etc., don't need to feel inferior to those with ground balance machines. For coins and jewelry adjustable GB makes little difference in actual finds. Just turn down that sensitivity if the machine starts to "motorboat." If you can get the signal to smooth out. An adjustable GB probably wouldn't gain you any more real depth. It would just make you think you were going deeper due to a quieter detector.

The big trick in this hobby is to learn ones detector. Every detector brand/model speaks a language of its own.

Coins and rings will usually sound out clearly even with approximate GB and sensitivity settings. Fine tuning the machine usually makes little difference in the case of these types of finds. Gold nuggets--now that would be another story I think.

Well, at least that's been my thought over the years.

 

[liquid1]

Howdy MB....How do you like your Nautilus unit, I have heard its the Deepest unit on the Market..Its made here in my state of NC, just a few
hours away from me..For a Knob and no VDI machine I always wonder how it would be in Bad NC/VA ground for Deep Relic hunting..thanks for any info..james

 

[Michigan Badger]

Howdy MB....How do you like your Nautilus unit, I have heard its the Deepest unit on the Market..Its made here in my state of NC, just a few
hours away from me..For a Knob and no VDI machine I always wonder how it would be in Bad NC/VA ground for Deep Relic hunting..thanks for any info..james

Hi friend. Today I tend not to brag up one machine too highly nor do I put others down to low. I used to do this but after going back and retrying certain brands and models I discovered it's really all about learning the machine (in most cases).

I've been for and against Nautilus machines. I've owned at least two and loved and hated them at the same time. My last one was a IIB (the most popular model) and I think I got them figured out now (somewhat).

The Nautilus machines are very deep. Maybe even the deepest VLF's on the market today. But, they're not for beginners and they require considerable study and use in field to master.

They are heavy--off balance (stock)--and they're prone to water condensation due to a metal box. They use (4) 9 Volt batteries and they go through them pretty fast. A rechargeable battery kit is highly recommended as is the Whites rod modification kit.

By the time you get everything to make the Nautilus a smoother machine the question is is it worth that much? Faithful users say yes and others go with a Minelab model, etc.

I found stuff with my Nautilus IIB I never got a beep on with my other machines. But, this doesn't always mean it's deeper. Sometimes targets sound off when maybe a month earlier nothing could have detected them. It's ground and weather conditions mostly.

I'd say buy a used unit if you want to try Nautilus. I paid about $325 for my last DMC IIB off ebay. It's deep but I'll grab the Minelab Sovereign GT 1st when I think a site might be hot just because I tend to trust it more. The Silver uMax with 12x10 concentric coil is smooth as silk and mega deep. It's super fun to use and a killer for Indian cents and deep relics. The Whites MXT with 12 inch coil is a killer coin/relic machine and maybe the best all-round detector.

The Nautilus has it's place but really it like all the other great machines today is a tool and it has its purpose.

No one detector does it all perfectly.

Badge

 

[Michigan Badger]

i for one am guilty of cranking the sens. not to unstable proportions but up, most of what i find is not that deep though, generally lots of gravel under the first couple in. or a tough grass root system where finds have a tough time getting through any deeper, but its seems the machines i like are generally noiser than many, MB have you swung any of them fine machines lately? Thompy

Hi Thompy!

I constantly change detectors. At one time I had 8 or 9 at one time. That was nuts.

I've never used the T2 or F-75. But I've used the Minelabs, Tesoros, Garretts, many Whites and Fishers.

Each one had its good and bad points. But all the newer models find the loot. I don't see a great deal of difference in most of them.

I think VLF technology has reached is limits depth-wise.

Hows the copper diggin been lately?

Badge

 

[cosmic]

Hi Badger, glad to see you back!! Yes, when I was testing the M6 I noticed after a certain point it did not gain depth just became more sensitive to smaller objects.. I guess thats why the call it sensitivity and not depth control...
Ray

 

[Michigan Badger]

Hi Badger, glad to see you back!! Yes, when I was testing the M6 I noticed after a certain point it did not gain depth just became more sensitive to smaller objects.. I guess thats why the call it sensitivity and not depth control...
Ray

Hi Ray!

Yes, I found this too. The transmitted/receivable signal only goes so deep. The sensitivity control turns up the receivers amplification. It can't add any greater depth to the original transmitted signal.

And lets face it, most coins sound off loud and clear if they're within the detectable range of the machine. You either hear a good signal or nothing.

But if we turn the sensitivity down too far then we can reduce depth significantly as you know. The key is balance.

I usually turn the sensitivity to max until the signal becomes unstable and/or I get false signals. But many newbies can't tell when they're getting those false signals so they end up digging 40 holes and 30 have nothing in them.

Maximum sensitivity works fine sometimes but many times the ground conditions won't allow it and we have no choice but to turn it down.

So there's been this struggle over the years. Some say the sensitivity knob is the "depth knob" and others say no. Both are correct. Yes it is if it's turned down too far. No it isn't if it's set to where the detector runs smooth--to a point just before it becomes unstable.

 

[EDDE]

hey look what the cat dragged in

 

[thompy]

i haven't really spent much time looking for copper this summer, pretty much relic hunting, not much intresting found there either MB, had a strange thing happen this weekend near a old gold mine, walking the old road got a nice strong signal, i was right over a rock, it didn't act like a hot rock, hit it in all metal, disc and PP, hit strong, i could see some light green in the rock like it had copper in it, well after spending a half hour trying to get this boulder out of the ground, digging all around it prying with the lesche, thought it was going to break my tool, started pulling dried pine trees out of the woods to pry it out, after snapping about 10 of these I got it out, the boulder was about 18 in. around, funny thing the signal disappeared on the rock and nothing in the ground around around the hole, Ive had signals disappear, [being rust] but nothing like this one for me to ponder on. Going to take some time off in Sept and hit the copper trail around Mass at the base of the copper country this fall.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Badger,

This is like old times with you posting good common sense. Aside from your vast experience with so many units, the one thing about your posts that always got my attention, was your consistent ability to spell things out right to the point..loud and clear (an ability that entirely eludes me). A few examples only:

"The smaller the target the more important the ground balance."

"The big trick in this hobby is to learn ones detector. Every detector brand/model speaks a language of its own."

"No one detector does it all perfectly."

"I found stuff with my Nautilus IIB I never got a beep on with my other machines. But, this doesn't always mean it's deeper. Sometimes targets sound off when maybe a month earlier nothing could have detected them."

"The Silver uMax with 12x10 concentric coil is smooth as silk and mega deep. It's super fun to use and a killer for Indian cents and deep relics. The Whites MXT with 12 inch coil is a killer coin/relic machine and maybe the best all-round detector."

"I think VLF technology has reached is limits depth-wise."

"So there's been this struggle over the years. Some say the sensitivity knob is the "depth knob" and others say no. Both are correct. Yes it is if it's turned down too far. No it isn't if it's set to where the detector runs smooth--to a point just before it becomes unstable."

Your second point quoted above. It took me an excessively long winded recent thread to try and get across what you have stated succinctly in two lines. I can't add a thing to your comments. This is so refreshing Badger. Welcome back.

Jim.

WOW! Thanks Jim! I may print this out and frame it for the office wall.

Now I should quit TNet before I screw it all up.

I'll just settle back and enjoy this moment.

 

[Michigan Badger]

hey look what the cat dragged in

Hey deacon great to see you're still here. TNet wouldn't be the same without you bud

Funny you should mention cat. The other night I got a message from Freecycle asking for a cat. The wife was sitting next to me with her demon cat sitting in her lap. I read her the message and looked at the cat. The wife look at me and then at the cat and said: "This is a dog."

 

[Michigan Badger]

i haven't really spent much time looking for copper this summer, pretty much relic hunting, not much intresting found there either MB, had a strange thing happen this weekend near a old gold mine, walking the old road got a nice strong signal, i was right over a rock, it didn't act like a hot rock, hit it in all metal, disc and PP, hit strong, i could see some light green in the rock like it had copper in it, well after spending a half hour trying to get this boulder out of the ground, digging all around it prying with the lesche, thought it was going to break my tool, started pulling dried pine trees out of the woods to pry it out, after snapping about 10 of these I got it out, the boulder was about 18 in. around, funny thing the signal disappeared on the rock and nothing in the ground around around the hole, Ive had signals disappear, [being rust] but nothing like this one for me to ponder on. Going to take some time off in Sept and hit the copper trail around Mass at the base of the copper country this fall.

That's really interesting about that rock signal. Maybe as it was originally sitting it was exactly right for the detector to pick up a band of copper? I really don't know about this one. I've had stuff like this happen on buried signals. I've had solid signals that held in there in full discrimination and after digging down 4 or 5 inches the signal was totally gone.

Sometimes I've dug down after losing the signal and found deep shotgun brasses or similar metal trash. Maybe it's something that happens with copper alloy items? I don't recall ever having that happen with a silver coin. With them the signal gets louder the deeper you go.

Bagder

 

[Michigan Badger]

Nope Badger, we all want you to stick around and be obnoxious, make lots of mistakes just like the rest of us, and blame everything that goes wrong in life on the wife. Hey, it works for me!

Jim.

It would of taken me several hundred words to communicate what you summed up in these two short sentences.

I couldn't add a thing to em.

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

Badger & Thompy:

Geez Badger, I'm going to stray so far off topic talking about rocks here. Here is a photo (attached) of native copper with chlorite...but more important Thompy, despite the blurriness, you can easily see the chlorite crystallization, and colour variation. "Positive" hot rocks do not have to contain Fe+3 (typical rusty colouration) iron, but can contain any amount of ferrous iron, normally weakly magnetic. Such rocks should balance out on your T2, somewhere between settings of 60 and 80, if your unit's GB scale is similar to mine. Most "weathered" iron mineralized rocks, ie subject to fire... campfire rocks for example, will ground balance below "65" and will mostly respond as "positive" hot rocks relative to the surrounding soil in any given area, ie their ground balance point is less than the surrounding soil.

Jim.

Stray on my good man. Good stuff

 

[thompy]

Jim i was in the general area of the rocks we talked about West Ishpeming, but believe they are about a mile to the west, i have the hole neg hot rock thing figured out, but lack experience on the positive one, this area the GB fluctuated even more than my areas to the north in the dead river belt, i still haven't gotten into the habit of checking out the Fe meter, and i did not GB on the rock, the id on my machine hit at like a 68 up to the 70's generally where brass shell casings come in. I did check my GB on the surrounding soil and was fine, the bolder didn't appear to have quartz in it, found very little quarts in the near by gold mines, tailing's piles. I will investigate this further next time up. this is only a 100 yards off the highway. I'm getting the feeling i might well be just as well off hunting with a broom till i get the fine tuning of the GB figured out for prospecting, Jim when i get some samples of the black green rock i will send you one, for some of them responded kind of strange to me as well. we seem to have similar minerals ans soil conditions, as this is the southern edge of the Canadian shield. thanks again for the help, Steve

 

[BuckleBoy]

I have usually hunted with auto-GB machines--and I usually leave the sensitivity knob at reasonable levels with the uMax, unless there is electrical interference (which there seldom is with that machine).

The 1266 on the other hand, I always run it wide-open. It's not because I feel like it gets me much more depth--but what it Does do (and for a machine that likes iron, this is important), is it allows me to *hear* an even wider difference between the sound of a good "beep" as distinguished from the background "chatter" of partially discriminated targets on the machine.

And to pick iffy signals out of iron patches with it, I need all of the help I can get.

Great Thread!


-Buck

 

[thompy]

thanks Jim, i will still check it out further. Buckleboy that is the way to run the whites QXT's as well, and they to like the iron, i also run the t-2 similar, last year i had no problem with iron, the ground was also very dry, but as Jim mentioned round iron has been a little tougher to avoid with the moist soil conditions this year, t-2 still handles iron much better than my qxts thompy

 

[thompy]

but the range on the f-75 is more appealing for the coin shooter, probally could have saved your self a couple bucks with the t-2, but again then you would'nt have the je mode, or backlight