Official Massachusetts Bay Silver Thread- Post Your Dug Tree Coins Today!

[oxbowbarefoot]

Alright folks, it's time to show us your dug Massachusetts Bay Colony Silvers. NE, Willow Tree, Oak Tree and Pine Tree Shillings, Sixpences, Threepence and Twopence and cut coins welcome. Please feel free to tell us how you found them and in what general area. I think it would be pretty cool to start building a dug Mass Silver census. If you don't know your variety, a few of us are pretty solid with our ID's.

Bill D, Bill Ladd, Silver Tree Chaser, SteeleHeadWill, Rhode Hog, Lawsonland, BigBobBow, Silversurfer1111 and many more, I'm talkin' to you! Post 'em up!

I'll start things off. This Noe 1 Oak Tree Shilling and quarter cut Noe 5 Pine Tree shilling were found in the same field in Western Massachusetts a few days apart, both with my XP Deus.

 

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[oxbowbarefoot]

Meet a guy a few months ago that had a photo of N.E.coin in his phone ,looked like the real thing to those of us that saw it.

A friend of Casper's found one long ago in western Ma, but I am not sure where. He showed me a picture of it. Without a doubt, it was authentic.

 

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[worldtalker]

A friend of Casper's found one long ago in western Ma, but I am not sure where. He showed me a picture of it. Without a doubt, it was authentic.

Is this going to be your next find? Sure hope so dude!

 

[Mi$terG]

Can't wait to see one posted in one of these forums. Again, hope it's one of us!

 

[Ahab8]

I might have a heart attack if I find one. Not sure I could handle it. Heck even a Willow tree might give me a scare

 

[Iron Patch]

I might have a heart attack if I find one. Not sure I could handle it. Heck even a Willow tree might give me a scare

As many MASS silver that turn up I think we'll see one posted some day, or at least hear the story of one on the news. The thing is with the value of some of them chances are people would stay quiet. I know if I found the best of the best I could sell it for $250,000+ private sale within 24 hours... and do you think I'd be saying anything? Nope! I'd be detecting the next 30 days straight!

 

[Mi$terG]

As many MASS silver that turn up I think we'll see one posted some day, or at least hear the story of one on the news. The thing is with the value of some of them chances are people would stay quiet. I know if I found the best of the best I could sell it for $250,000+ private sale within 24 hours... and do you think I'd be saying anything? Nope! I'd be detecting the next 30 days straight!

Excellent point. Why publicize a find of that value. Maybe we can agree on code... Like one day Abe posts "I've found a piece of EIGHT- wink wink..."

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Excellent point. Why publicize a find of that value. Maybe we can agree on code... Like one day Abe posts "I've found a piece of EIGHT- wink wink..."

I'm sure there might be a few private messages sent

 

[Ahab8]

As many MASS silver that turn up I think we'll see one posted some day, or at least hear the story of one on the news. The thing is with the value of some of them chances are people would stay quiet. I know if I found the best of the best I could sell it for $250,000+ private sale within 24 hours... and do you think I'd be saying anything? Nope! I'd be detecting the next 30 days straight!

Yep, if I ever find something worth a fortune very few people will ever know....but I certainly would let a few of you know. I'm also curious to know if everybody would sell that coin? If it was valued at $250,000. I'm actually not sure I could sell it right away. I know you guys think I'm crazy but it might have to live with me for awhile. It could watch tv with me, have a seat at the table for meals, sleep in the guest bedroom. After wanting to find it for so long I could just let it go right off. It'd be part of the fam for a bit

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Yep, if I ever find something worth a fortune very few people will ever know....but I certainly would let a few of you know. I'm also curious to know if everybody would sell that coin? If it was valued at $250,000. I'm actually not sure I could sell it right away. I know you guys think I'm crazy but it might have to live with me for awhile. It could watch tv with me, have a seat at the table for meals, sleep in the guest bedroom. After wanting to find it for so long I could just let it go right off. It'd be part of the fam for a bit

goog point, coins that rare have had an average rate of return of 11% for just about forever. That's one hell of an investment coin. I guess it all just depends on the finders financial situation.

 

[Iron Patch]

goog point, coins that rare have had an average rate of return of 11% for just about forever. That's one hell of an investment coin. I guess it all just depends on the finders financial situation.

I would sell right away for fair market price for two reasons. If we're talking the best of the best just one more example is going to hurt your price, and also take a lot of the excitement out of your sale... and 2nd, the economy is pretty strong right now, and even though a weak economy doesn't affect millionaires in quite the same way, a very weak coin market I think still has a trickle up affect and the best and rarest coins still take a hit. So I would take the cash now rather than waiting for several years to see where it goes.

 

[Ahab8]

Very true. In a strong market if you found a coin of that rarity the price could go beyond your wildest dreams too. NE Shillings don't hit the market too often. If a millionaire really wants it you better believe he will pay for it. That's the big difference between scarce, rare and ultra rare

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Updated photos of the Oak Tree Shilling, after a little surface dirt was removed. Once I get a new camera with a decent macro setting I'll try to get some better ones.

 

[Iron Patch]

Looks great. You really have nothing to worry about with that one, unless you did something really dumb. I personally would use some soap and water and probably even a little light brushing to remove the rest of the dirt (as I did my best silver coin find) ... but it certainly does not look bad as is... great actually, and a nice age look. Damn I want one of those but I am not going to kid myself.

 

[Ahab8]

Updated photos of the Oak Tree Shilling, after a little surface dirt was removed. Once I get a new camera with a decent macro setting I'll try to get some better ones. View attachment 1269383

Looks great man! Love the toning. I just got a Nikon D3300 camera and bought a nice macro lens. Very very happy with it. The pics are amazing and the automatically link to my phone and iPad so I immediately have them saved

 

[Ahab8]

Not sure if you ever saw this but it was taken with the same lens I bought

 

[Iron Patch]

Not sure if you ever saw this but it was taken with the same lens I bought
View attachment 1269401

Seeing that pic, I'm pretty sure that's a fake!

 

[Ahab8]

Seeing that pic, I'm pretty sure that's a fake!

It actually says COPY on the other side. Guess I better check the cob as well

 

[Iron Patch]

It actually says COPY on the other side. Guess I better check the cob as well

Sure it doesn't say "cocky?"

 

[Mi$terG]

Updated photos of the Oak Tree Shilling, after a little surface dirt was removed. Once I get a new camera with a decent macro setting I'll try to get some better ones. View attachment 1269383

Beautiful coin. Thanks for sharing.

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

I've always wondered how many Massachusetts Bay silvers were minted by Hull and Saunderson. Below is an excerpt from Studies on John Hull, the Mint and Economics of Massachusetts Coinage speaking to just coinage produced in 1679 based upon Hull's ledgers. Extrapolate this over the course of the mint's history, and it becomes clear that MANY tree coins should be ripe for discovery...

"Clearly, like all other mints, the Massachusetts Bay mint lost some silver as waste during the minting process. Realizing there had to have been some loss, and also realizing Hull produced more that 80d in coinage per troy ounce, it is clear the average coin weight was below 72 grains per shilling. As the mint committee allowed a wastage allowance of 1d per troy ounce, it seems Hull interpreted this regulation as giving him a remedy or tolerance of six grains of sterling per troy ounce. This was not a per coin toleration but a per ounce toleration, thus individual shillings may be above or below the 71.1 grains average but the sum total of the coinage per ounce was limited to a loss of six grains. Thus, I shall use six grains per ounce as the maximum wastage or loss in the caluculations below. However, it is quite possible Hull was actually able to control wastage so that the average waste per troy ounce was less than six grains. Therefore, I shall review the 1679 consignments for average coin weight estimating absolutely no wastage, then estimating the maximum six grains per ounce of wastage and finally estimating a median actual wastage of three grains per troy ounce.
For simplicity, I have assumed all of coins produced in these four consignments were shillings. If some portion of the coinage was in smaller denomination coins, the number of coins produced would differ but the per unit weight and wastage results would be the same, as all the denominations were proportional and the wastage actually refers to grains lost per 12d of coinage rather than specifically to a shilling. For example, the facts from Hull's ledger state 3027.5 troy ounces of sterling were used to produce £1014 14s in Massachusetts coinage. Precisely how that coinage may have been distributed between shillings and lower denomination coinage is unknown. If the entire amount was in shillings it would total 20,294 shillings, if in threepence the number of coins would be triple, however the overall weight per every 12d in coinage would not change, as the weight per value figures are the known facts taken from the Hull ledger. Obviously, the weight per value would remain the same no matter what combination of threepence, sixpence and shilling coins were used, as long as the total added up to £1014 14s in coinage produced from 3027.5 troy ounces of sterling. Thus, for purposes of estimating the actual wastage and then calculating an average coin weight, it is simpler to assume the entire run was in shillings rather than create some artificial divisions among the three denominations of coinage. Essentially a shilling is used here to represent 12d in coinage. Furthermore, the four consignments under discussion were from 1679, during the final years of the mint, and certainly reflect the period when the majority, if not all of the coinage production, was in thick planchet shillings produced on a screw press. [SIZE=-1][Some additional comments on when Pine Tree threepence and sixpence coins may have been minted are found below in part three under the heading. "Interpreting the consignment information in Hull's ledger."]"

Full study can be found here: [/SIZE]http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/ColCoinIntros/MAMintDocs.studies.html[SIZE=-1]

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