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  1. #1

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Naturally you can't detect in the Pancho Villa State Park. However, the images below might give you some ideas where detecting could produce results. The blowup air photos indicate the vacant lots where the hotel and bank [and dwellings] once stood. But the photos [and the stories below] ought to provide some other hints I won't suggest.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa

    Pancho Villa
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Doroteo Arango Arámbula (June 5, 1878 – July 23, 1923), better known as Francisco or "Pancho" Villa, was a Mexican Revolutionary general. As commander of the División del Norte (Division of the North), he was the veritable caudillo of the Northern Mexican state of Chihuahua, which, due to its size, mineral wealth and proximity to the United States of America gave him great popularity and he was provisional Governor of Chihuahua in 1913 and 1914. While his violence and ambition prevented him from being accepted into the "pantheon" of national heroes until some twenty years after his death, today his memory is honored by Mexicans and many Americans. In addition, numerous streets and neighborhoods in Mexico are named in honor of him. In 1916 he raided Columbus, New Mexico. This act provoked the unsuccessful Punitive Expedition commanded by General John J. Pershing, which failed to capture Villa after a year in pursuit.

    Pancho Villa’s Skull

    BySteve Bartholomew

    http://www.chargedbarticle.org/Villa's%20Skull.htm

    History of the 1912 Mexican Revolution
    http://www.elpasotexas.gov/mcad/mexi...on/history.asp

    The Raid on Columbus
    http://website.lineone.net/~hollis_w...tive.html#norm

    In the small hours of March 9th 1916 Villa crossed the Mexican/ U.S.A border 3 miles West of the border gate at Palomas (manned by 151 men and 7 officers of the 13th Cavalry).

    The town, garrisoned with 341 men and 7 officers, lay quiet until around 4.30am when Villa's men rode in from the west, dividing their force to attack the town itself and the military camp.

    Half the Villistas penetrated as far as the Commercial Hotel, halfway up Main Street where they robbed and butchered 9 guests. The other half struck Camp Furlong from the Southeast targeting the stables in order to spook away as many of the horses as possible. The cook wide awake and at work defended themselves with foraging shotguns as point blank range. Meanwhile at the cross roads of main street and the railroad the Machinegun Company had set themselves up and would discharge 20,000 rounds of ammunition. Eventually the raiders withdrew from the town and were hotly pursued by Captain Tompkins, 56 cavalrymen verses 400 Villistas. Tompkins drove Villa 15 miles back into Mexico killing 32. Tompkins returned to Columbus at around 1pm to the sight of 67 dead Villistas being doused with kerosene and set ablaze.

    The Subsequent Mexican Punitive Expedition lead by General John J. Pershing lasted some 10 months but it failed to capture Villa. It did however disperse his forces who never again penetrated American soil.

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  2. #2

    Sep 2006
    5

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Interesting post, I grew up in Alamogordo, New Mexico, my grandmother was in Columbus during Villa's raid. She was fortunate enough to have a flawless memory and told my brother & I about this event and all the wild shooting. Gram produced several talking historical books before she died at age 98. Can likely access them in the Alamogordo library under Emma Arabella Thomas.
    Thanks for the pictures and story, lots of history in New Mexico.
    Best,
    Chuck T.

  3. #3

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck t.
    Interesting post, I grew up in Alamogordo, New Mexico, my grandmother was in Columbus during Villa's raid. She was fortunate enough to have a flawless memory and told my brother & I about this event and all the wild shooting. Gram produced several talking historical books before she died at age 98. Can likely access them in the Alamogordo library under Emma Arabella Thomas.
    Thanks for the pictures and story, lots of history in New Mexico.
    Best,
    Chuck T.
    Thanks for the reply Chuck. Columbus and the Pancho Villa raid are a truly strange piece of US history. I've never been able to put myself into the mind of Pancho Villa enough to understand why he made the raid. Makes no sense at all. Wheels within wheels, I expect. When the US Customs Service raided the bank in Juarez that held so much of his treasure they didn't confiscated it, also.

    Wheels within wheels.

    A conspiracy-theorist buff once told me in all seriousness the whole 1912 Mexican Revolution was conjured up by the high muckymucks in the Utah LDS hierarchy to get the 'Jack-Mormons' of the day who were still practicing polygamy driven out of Mexico. And it succeeded in doing that. A couple of thousand of them fled Mexico to El Paso in 1912.

    Strange times. Thanks for the reply.
    Jack


  4. #4
    us
    Dec 2007
    Las Cruces
    Minelab X-Terra 50/ Minelab Etrac
    26

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    One of the theories is that a Columbus store owner had promised Pancho Villa weapons that were never delivered although the store owner had received the money for the weapons. I have also heard a story that there were weapons brought by rail and that they were unloaded in two separate trips and that the first set was buried. The rumor is that the weapons were for Villa but he became impatient and raided Columbus as punishment and specifically targeted the store owner. (I can't recall the store owners name). I have found military buttons, coins,spoons, sutures, and other things around Columbus. I used to have a prime spot until the land was sold and the place was bulldozed. I haven't been there in about 20 years but have plans to return soon! It is a great place to MD.

  5. #5

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by jones791
    One of the theories is that a Columbus store owner had promised Pancho Villa weapons that were never delivered although the store owner had received the money for the weapons. I have also heard a story that there were weapons brought by rail and that they were unloaded in two separate trips and that the first set was buried. The rumor is that the weapons were for Villa but he became impatient and raided Columbus as punishment and specifically targeted the store owner. (I can't recall the store owners name). I have found military buttons, coins,spoons, sutures, and other things around Columbus. I used to have a prime spot until the land was sold and the place was bulldozed. I haven't been there in about 20 years but have plans to return soon! It is a great place to MD.
    Thanks for the good lead Jones. I spent some time trying to track it down yesterday and didn't get anywhere with it, but I'll put a bit more time into it.

    Came across a lot of good pictures of Villa and the revolution on some of the sites, one with him standing beside a smiling General Blackjack Pershing. Lots of pics of the firing squads and mahem he carried around with him, and a site devoted to the question of whether he might have been a German spy. There's a fairly gory one of him minutes after his assassination sprawled open-mouthed across the seat of his car, head hanging down out the door looking at the camera and people hanging back looking at it deadpan. Quite a coincidence the camaraman being right there to get a picture that way.

    I think I like your store-owner explanation fairly well. I hope there's more on it somewhere.

    Gracias,
    Jack


  6. #6
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1343 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by jones791
    One of the theories is that a Columbus store owner had promised Pancho Villa weapons that were never delivered although the store owner had received the money for the weapons. I have also heard a story that there were weapons brought by rail and that they were unloaded in two separate trips and that the first set was buried. The rumor is that the weapons were for Villa but he became impatient and raided Columbus as punishment and specifically targeted the store owner. (I can't recall the store owners name). ....
    The story I heard was that the store owner intentionally supplied faulty ammunition to the Villalistas and the raid was primarily payback to the storeowner. Things got out of hand thereafter and much of Columbus got trashed.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  7. #7

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield
    Quote Originally Posted by jones791
    One of the theories is that a Columbus store owner had promised Pancho Villa weapons that were never delivered although the store owner had received the money for the weapons. I have also heard a story that there were weapons brought by rail and that they were unloaded in two separate trips and that the first set was buried. The rumor is that the weapons were for Villa but he became impatient and raided Columbus as punishment and specifically targeted the store owner. (I can't recall the store owners name). ....
    The story I heard was that the store owner intentionally supplied faulty ammunition to the Villalistas and the raid was primarily payback to the storeowner. Things got out of hand thereafter and much of Columbus got trashed.
    Thanks Springfield. Found one that mentioned the storekeeper without going into details, but came across a pretty good, in-depth article also:

    Pancho Villa, Outlaw, Hero, Patriot, Cutthroat: Evaluating the Many Faces of
    By Jeff Howell
    http://historicaltextarchive.com/sec...icle&artid=735
    http://snipurl.com/2auy6 [historicaltextarchive_com]


    Who Was Pancho Villa?
    http://www.calnative.com/stories/n_villa.htm

  8. #8
    us
    Mar 2007
    Arizona
    LST
    272
    14 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Jack,
    I am not as well read on this as I would like to be so help me out on this. My understanding was that Pancho himself never really took part in this raid. He never really talked about it or explained it. I wonder if if fact he knew that it was going to take place. The revoloution was a wide reaching and confusing affair. He had a had a large following spread over a vast landscape, I wonder if this was simply an independent raid carried out by a group of followers on the fringes of his large army.
    Bill

  9. #9

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill96
    Jack,
    I am not as well read on this as I would like to be so help me out on this. My understanding was that Pancho himself never really took part in this raid. He never really talked about it or explained it. I wonder if if fact he knew that it was going to take place. The revoloution was a wide reaching and confusing affair. He had a had a large following spread over a vast landscape, I wonder if this was simply an independent raid carried out by a group of followers on the fringes of his large army.
    Bill
    Hi Bill: Thanks for the reply. I'm a long way from being an expert on Villa and the Columbus raid. I don't know the answer to your question.

    I'd be interested in any links to sites or books you've used as source material about whether Villa was present for the raid.

    I do know there's a lot of confusion among people who do profess to be experts as to what his motives might have been. It's reflected in the in-depth writings and assertions about it on various websites. I'd guess it's the result, as you pointed out, of the fact Villa never explained himself.

    Gracias,
    Jack

  10. #10
    us
    Dec 2007
    Las Cruces
    Minelab X-Terra 50/ Minelab Etrac
    26

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    In one book that I have there are several accounts of whether or not Pancho Villa was actually in Columbus during the raid. Most people believe that Pancho Villa was either in Palomas across the border from Columbus or that he held back near Columbus and watched the raid and that one of his Generals Pablo Lopez led the raid. The book Villa Raids Columbus NM by Bill Rakocy contains a lot of information from participants themselves. The main theories for the raid are as follows:
    1. Villa felt he had been wronged by the United States as they had shipped Mexican Federal Troops from Agua Prieta through the United States to defeat Villa.
    2. The United States had paid Villa to raid Columbus to frighten complacent Americans to prepare for war with Mexico.
    3. Columbus store owner Sam Ravel received money from Villa but did not deliver on the supplies that were ordered.

  11. #11
    us
    Aug 2007
    Mechanicsville, VA
    AT PRO Sovereign GT WolfPack
    1,447
    219 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    I know a fellow detectorist that has over the past years MD to the West of the present, "Snowbird" trailer park in Columbus. Any idea if anything was out in that direction? He has found military buttons, some coins and lots of empty brass.
    Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know. Vietnam # 10 G.I Wolfpack

  12. #12

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnycat
    I know a fellow detectorist that has over the past years MD to the West of the present, "Snowbird" trailer park in Columbus. Any idea if anything was out in that direction? He has found military buttons, some coins and lots of empty brass.
    Hi Johnycat: You could load flashearth.com and plug in the longitude and latitude [it's on the lower right corner of the flashearth images above] and get a pretty good idea whether there are ruins out there. I'm not familiar with the Snowbird Trailer Park.

    Good luck
    Jack

  13. #13

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    20 times

    Re: Columbus New Mexico 1916 Pancho Villa Raid ruins detector site

    Quote Originally Posted by jones791
    In one book that I have there are several accounts of whether or not Pancho Villa was actually in Columbus during the raid. Most people believe that Pancho Villa was either in Palomas across the border from Columbus or that he held back near Columbus and watched the raid and that one of his Generals Pablo Lopez led the raid. The book Villa Raids Columbus NM by Bill Rakocy contains a lot of information from participants themselves. The main theories for the raid are as follows:
    1. Villa felt he had been wronged by the United States as they had shipped Mexican Federal Troops from Agua Prieta through the United States to defeat Villa.
    2. The United States had paid Villa to raid Columbus to frighten complacent Americans to prepare for war with Mexico.
    3. Columbus store owner Sam Ravel received money from Villa but did not deliver on the supplies that were ordered.
    Thanks Jones. I'd wondered whether the US or agents supported by the US was included in some of the speculations [or ought to be]. WWI would have looked a lot different in the US if it hadn't been for Pancho Villa.

    Jack

 

 

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