Larger copper/bronze? arrow point/knife?

[history hunter]

Well, I promised to post this one a year ago, before my comp. went out. I found this in Wisconsin about 1980 or so,by a lake. It was down about 12"+ and had a long oval shaped deposit,( which I removed). You can still see the outline of the deposit on the side of artifact. My high school teacher,(that was teaching us about artifacts), didn't even want to see it at the time. If anybody can tell me more about it, I would appreciate it. Thanks for looking. HH

 

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[Noodle]

Wow! Anything copper (as in a tool) has to be special and old. I'm not versed in that, but a trip to a local university should unearth some info. Let us know! And thanks for sharing.

Noodle

 

[history hunter]

Hi Looks like copper culture Spear 3000 to 7000 years old. Don't know about the patina was this a water find?
anyway here is a site that is in building process has great pictures and easy to search http://www.copperculture.zoomshare.com/0.html

Steve0, this point had about 1/4 " of patina on top in the elongated oval pattern on the flat side of the point. I removed it years ago. This point was dug about 25 feet away from the lake shore, so that could account for the patina. Thanks for responding. HH

 

[history hunter]

Wow! Anything copper (as in a tool) has to be special and old. I'm not versed in that, but a trip to a local university should unearth some info. Let us know! And thanks for sharing.

Noodle

Thanks for your interest.

 

[Monette]

It doesn't have much green on it, so I'm tempted to say it's more late Woodland or Mississippian. Where in Wisconsin? It's very important because location is one of the few ways we have of dating these pieces. Most likely a spear point with blunted tip indicating use, although I can see why some might be tempted to call it a knife.

 

[animoosh]

History Hunter,
Your copper point is a type IG (wittry classification) and would date to around the 2000 BC range. I have several from up here in Manitoba which are virtually identical to the one you have shown. I can tell by your description of it's found condition that it came out of soil which was heavily acidic such as a predominately spruce or pine forested area. Cool find and thanks for sharing!

 

[wells]

I no expert on copper arts. , but all the ones i looked at are green or ish. The color of yours is reminisent of iron or other, the stem design is also unique. If you find out for sure let us know - very cool piece ,

 

[GatorBoy]

Seems it would have turned green just being in the oxygen of your home. Is it coated? It does seem more like an alloy with a small amount of copper. I just can't see copper looking like that after thousands of years in the ground...then .... it not almost turning to green dust after being exposed to the air and removed from its high p.h. environment abruptly. I don't know copper artifacts very well.. Mabey I'm completely wrong. It seems at least the spot you removed the crust would have turned bright green after exposing fresh metal.

 

[animoosh]

Gatorboy,
Most of the copper I find here has a purply/brown patina all over it. Once this patina is removed or dries up and falls away, the artiifacts continue to be mostly a dull brown with only slight flecks of green showing throughout...they have never turned bright green....and these artifacts are basically 99% pure Lake Superior copper. I believe highly acidic soils here somehow impede the green oxidation on these boreal forst specimens.

 

[NC field hunter]

Copper artifacts have always Puzzled me. I have seen wheat pennies as green as the statue of liberty. Then, I have never seen a copper artifact with more than green specks on it. I went to a museum three weeks ago to look at the copper artifacts found in my area. The pieces found in southern VA were all later dated pieces, but still much older than a wheat penny. It can't be because the copper associated with native Americans was closer to its raw state, because I have seen quartz with more green color than white. Native copper artifacts are mysterious and cool. Sad but true, I'll probably never have to think about this topic in much depth.

 

[GatorBoy]

Gatorboy,
Most of the copper I find here has a purply/brown patina all over it. Once this patina is removed or dries up and falls away, the artiifacts continue to be mostly a dull brown with only slight flecks of green showing throughout...they have never turned bright green....and these artifacts are basically 99% pure Lake Superior copper. I believe highly acidic soils here somehow impede the green oxidation on these boreal forst specimens.

That is cool stuff thanks.

 

[GatorBoy]

I could use a bucket of your soil for some of my shipwreck artifacts. You could sell it by the pound.

 

[animoosh]

Problem with this acidic soil is as good as it seems to treat copper, bronze and silver items, it raises holly hell with iron artifacts. Iron trade axes for example, are for the most part totally annihilated within a couple hundred years...unless they have been dropped in a well draining, sandy soil.

 

[GatorBoy]

Never been too into anythiing iron.. the high p.h. should preserve bone artifacts also... especially if in a low oxygen environment.

 

[animoosh]

GatorBoy,
The high acid isn't too good on bone or antler artifacts....especially when coupled with a wicked freeze/thaw cycle every year. Porous organics like these become very brittle and tend to flake apart easily after they have been soaked by late fall rains and then frozen down to temps in the minus 40 degree range. At my age, those winter conditions are starting to have the same affect on me!

 

[GatorBoy]

You hang in there... soil in Florida that has a p.h. of about 7.8 seems to be best.. of course we don't have the extreme freeze thaw cycle.

 

[IAMZIM]

Gatorboy,
Most of the copper I find here has a purply/brown patina all over it. Once this patina is removed or dries up and falls away, the artiifacts continue to be mostly a dull brown with only slight flecks of green showing throughout...they have never turned bright green....and these artifacts are basically 99% pure Lake Superior copper. I believe highly acidic soils here somehow impede the green oxidation on these boreal forst specimens.

First of all what I will tell you about this artifact is....IT IS FREAKIN COOL. Next.... What I am wondering is this... IF the "highly acidic soils here impede the green oxidation", is that what also causes the silver I find here to be almost perfectly clean? The soil content I mean? The silver I have found in Montana is almost always oxidized... but the silver I have found here in Wisconsin is almost perfectly clean...NO oxidation whatsoever. I find it weird. I just want to know if you think there is any relationship with the two types of metals and why they turn out the way they do. If u think Im being foolish I can accept that .... just let me know =)

 

[NC field hunter]

GatorBoy,
The high acid isn't too good on bone or antler artifacts....especially when coupled with a wicked freeze/thaw cycle every year. Porous organics like these become very brittle and tend to flake apart easily after they have been soaked by late fall rains and then frozen down to temps in the minus 40 degree range. At my age, those winter conditions are starting to have the same affect on me!

Acidic soil doesn't allow me many pottery finds either.

 

[animoosh]

First of all what I will tell you about this artifact is....IT IS FREAKIN COOL. Next.... What I am wondering is this... IF the "highly acidic soils here impede the green oxidation", is that what also causes the silver I find here to be almost perfectly clean? The soil content I mean? The silver I have found in Montana is almost always oxidized... but the silver I have found here in Wisconsin is almost perfectly clean...NO oxidation whatsoever. I find it weird. I just want to know if you think there is any relationship with the two types of metals and why they turn out the way they do. If u think Im being foolish I can accept that .... just let me know =)

Iamzim....I have noticed the same occurrence on silver here as you do in Wisconsin and I suspect it has a lot to do with the acidic nature of the soils in both places. Montana would have highly alkaline soils...an opposite situation to our areas. Salt laden soils most definitely would affect buried metals much differently than acidic ones. I picked up an 1882 quarter from where it was eroding out of a riverbank here last summer and it was virtually spotless...some darkening, but still exceptionally bright considering the age.

 

[NC field hunter]

I live in an area with super high acidity and lots of minerals. Google NC piedmont soil ph. You will see that our soil has one of the highest levels of any place on earth. As mentioned above, silver can be removed in its raw form, and a simple wipe of the dirt cleans it. Same with old silver dimes that are found here. As for the copper, green. It tarnishes in veins on quartz. You may have something with the soil PH. Still, the copper artifacts found 20 miles north of me had no tarnish. Strange!