Why is obsidian superior over steel?

IAMZIM

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Why would an obsidian blade be superior over a steel one? Here are some well known facts about obsidian:


1.Freshly broken pieces of obsidian make perfect, smooth edges that are only a molecule wide at their apex. Steel, on the other hand, is jagged on the edge, forming tiny tooth-like serrations on the cutting edge. Those points will bend to either side of the blade through use,dulling the edge. When you sharpen a knife, you are aligning the serrations to the plane of the edge. Steel can be honed to make that cutting edge thinner, and thus, sharper. Steel can theoretically be honed until its edge is just a single molecule wide like obsidian, but here the limitations of the metal come in to play. Obsidian is much, much harder than steel. At molecular width, it's edge is hard enough to maintain that razor edge. At that thickness, the steel blade's serration's (the ones I mentioned earlier) are too weak, and will bend once you try to use that edge. Once you try cutting something, the steel edge will bend, and become less sharp.

2.Obsidian fractures conchoidally down to the very last molecule, so essentially when you break a piece off the very edge is only a molecule thick. It is at least 50 times sharper than surgical steel can get, and I've heard some say as much as 500 times sharper. If you look at obsidian's edge under a microscope, it is a perfectly smooth, sharp line. Steel (sharpened to a razor edge) will look like a toothed saw blade. Obsidian is in fact so sharp that when you are cut with it, it slices between skin cells and leaves no scarring, as opposed to steel which essentially rips apart the cells. The only downside of the spectacular sharpness of obsidian is that it is brittle, like glass, especially when you're talking about the one-molecule thick edge. If it touches anything harder than itself, you need a whole new edge. So, bone and hide are not harder than obsidian is, therefore, it will not dull when cutting them. It would only get dull if it was scraped against something harder than itself, and not need to be "resharpened". And it would not be sharpened in the same way as steel anyway, it would have to be pressure flaked, creating a new "edge" to cut with.

3.Steel is almost always composed of very many separate crystals, rather than one large one.
When steel fractures, it typically fractures along the uneven joins between septate crystals.
Obsidian contains almost no crystals large enough to affect the material's fracture properties and it is for this reason it breaks smoothly and sharply. Because obsidian lacks crystals, it does not break along lines of weakness in the material, it just fractures along the lines of the stress that caused the fracture. This is also why obsidian and similar materials show conchoidal fractures.
When you look at the shape of some fractured obsidian, you are looking at the shape of the shockwave that cracked it. When you look at the shape of some fractured steel, you are looking partly at the shape of the shockwave that fractured it, but mostly at the lines of weakness between the steel's imperfections and the joins between it's crystals.

I have talked to a few hunters that actually use "agate" blades to skin and dress their kills with, and one showed his blade to me and told me he had used it for many years, and never had to resharpen it. However, it is different using a stone blade, because you cannot pry or twist with it, otherwise you greatly risk snapping the blade.

I also find it very interesting reading about the "Hopewell" mound site in Ohio, where archaeologists found ceremonial blades and artifacts made of obsidian, that they claim to have gotten the material from Yellowstone in Montana, probably Obsidian Cliffs. (Where they have also recently found artifacts at the site itself.) Why would these men travel around 1600 miles, just to get this material? To me it's obvious, it is a superior material! True, these blades were determined not to have been used, but only to be ceremonial, but they traveled to get it, because they knew what it was, and how valuable it was to be used as a "cutting" material.

So what do you think? Would an obsidian knife be superior over a steel one? I for one absolutely do!

obsidian cliff.jpg Obsidian Cliffs, Yellowstone Montana.

Some more reading: Relative frequency of butchering cutmarks produced by ...

Stone Tool, Bison Butchering Experiments in Archaeology/Anthropology Forum Forum

Butchering With Obsidian | Field & Stream
 

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quito

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I believe you could skin a buffalo or a mammoth for that matter and the flint / obsidian blade would still be as sharp as when you started. To prove this, get yourself a pice of flint or obsidian and cut your old dried out deer hide into strips. You will be amazed how long it stays sharp.

Hmmm. That's a lot of cutting for any blade.
I believe YOU should try it. Do it with a fresh dirty dusty ol buffalo hide though. I think you will be surprised how fast the friction takes its toll.
 

patiodadio

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Hmmm. That's a lot of cutting for any blade.
I believe YOU should try it. Do it with a fresh dirty dusty ol buffalo hide though. I think you will be surprised how fast the friction takes its toll.

Bring us a mammoth and we will skin him out and see it the rock can still shave you after we get done 8-)
 

bill from lachine

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Folks,

Several years ago I had read an article where a gentleman of native descent required open heart surgery.

He insisted that the doctor use knives that he had napped for the surgery....the doctor complied and couldn't believe that they were sharper than the surgical steel ones he normally used.

So the proof is in the pudding.

Regards + HH

Bill
 

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Obsidian is not superior over steel, it is no where near as strong. Obsidian can be as sharp as surgical steel but that is were it ends. Why do you think we find so many broker pieces....?

Now with that said end the insults now!
 

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chase2

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Wow! what a debate! Stone vs steel. Now lets just say that an obsidian blade will stay razor sharp for ever. The big down side has been said, that it will break given any stress. Where Metal will not break under those same conditions.But the blade dulls and needs to be resharpened. Okay trade off. I have artifacts that still cut like it was just manufactured. But the amount of broken pieces would lead me to believe, and first hand knowledge of skinning an animal is only one step. The real work starts after that and requires more stress to the blade. I can take an elk and as long as it is within a few hours after a kill The hide comes off fairly easy. But when I get into making the cuts on the meat and getting around the bone that is where the stress occurs. If all you had was stone then expect breakage. I guess lets take from history the Fur Trade Era. They opted for metal. Why? Just saying razor sharp stone dose have an advantage for some certain tasks, but falls way short in an over all use category of longevity. That's JMO
 

chase2

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Obsidian is not superior over steel, it is no where near as strong. Obsidian can be as sharp as surgical steel but that is were it ends. Why do you think we find so many broker pieces....?

Now with that said end the insults now!

Awe Man Treasure_Hunter I was just getting started.:laughing7: I didnt even get to join a band wagon or anything.
Thanks! good job! on keeping everything civil.
 

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Awe Man Treasure_Hunter I was just getting started.:laughing7: I didnt even get to join a band wagon or anything.
Thanks! good job! on keeping everything civil.
We try to keep it civil so more members feel comfortable posting but sometimes we are a little late to the party.
 

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IAMZIM

IAMZIM

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Never said obsidian was stronger than steel, I said harder than steel and it is
 

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Jon Stewart

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I know of no one that can make an obsidian knife as sharp as an obsidian flake. Just can't be done. And I know probably 4 or 5 of the best flint knappers in the U.S. My friend and knapping mentor has a You tube video out where he skins up a deer without touching the blade up on a obsidian knife. And it is a knife not a flake.
 

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Never said obsidian was stronger than steel, I said harder than steel and it is

Actually you said superior, obsidian isn't superior to steel...

Why did Native Americans prefer metal points and knives once they were exposed to metals..? Why did they make points out of scrap metal found....?
 

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IAMZIM

IAMZIM

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That's your opinion, and I did ask the question, "what do you think?" And it is welcome. I do in my opinion think the opposite.
 

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old digger

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Obsidian may not be as strong as steel, but I would be more scared of being cut by obsidian than steel. Obsidian may not last against a rock or wood, but against flesh it will cut it more freely than steel. If any of you have ever tried to knap or work with obsidian you know from experience that if do not wear some kind of protection your hands will most surely be all cut up. Also depending on the cut a knife wound will heal sooner than a cut with obsidian or it's counter part glass. "Just my two cents worth"
 

chase2

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Since this seems to be a hot button, with sides. Both have valid arguments. Obsidian/ chert (silica based) has a superior edge to steel. and in a flake form is sharper than steel. As said it can cut through softer less obtrusive matter/material and hold an edge. But Steel can hold an edge in this same type of matter/material (not as long). Here is where I see the difference. and it is on the molecular side. Steel when introduced to more abrasive matter/material the edge will roll over hence making it dull for cutting. Obsidian on the same matter/material will do the same. Here is where steel becomes superior. It takes less to hone a knife to stand up the micro edge of the steel to be cutting. Where Obsidian needs to be flaked to get a cutting edge, and will never be as sharp as a single blade. (still sharp) and as long as it is cutting softer matter.material, will keep that edge. It has been mentioned about cutting hides, and an Obsidian blade will stay sharp after many cuts, true! but when I make any precise cuts, I need a surface for the hide to lay on. thus when I make a cut it will come in contact with the harder surface, and will become dull. as will steel. Hone the steel blade back up and it becomes sharp. Obsidian requires flaking to achieve a sharp blade (never as sharp) thus reducing the size of the blade with every sharpening, a lot quicker than steel. If I was going into surgery with cutting into soft tissue Obsidian would be my choice. But for an overall use say in a kitchen cutting meat I would take a steel blade over obsidian. I would prefer that my meal did not end up with those micro chips of obsidian when it does come in contact with abrasive surfaces.
That's my .02 cents worth and The last time I will post to this thread. I am sure there are typo's on this post but they will stay without editing.
Regards
Chase
 

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remember too that steel can be easily forged into a variety of shapes and sizes and of course can be sharpened nearly ad infinitum
 

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