This year's the first time I've ever purchased some N.A. Artifacts

[Mark Todd]

Ninety-nine percent of my N.A Indian artifacts were found by myself. Of the several hundred pieces that I've found only about a dozen were found by family members.
I found most of them between 1972 and 1987. During that time period I sold 4 of my best artifacts; a perfect and very symmetrical ferruginous quartz hourglass bannerstone in perfect condition.. I sold it in 1982 when we had 2 children and no work, and no vehicle, I received a 1979 Chevrolet Monza with 50 or 60 thousand miles on it, plus $400 cash, which we needed to pay the tax, title, license, and insurance for the vehicle. (Bobby Onken , who has made his millions buying and selling artifacts made the deal with me. There was enough cash left over to purchase a carpet cleaning machine and put an advertisement in the local paper to advertise my new work. We made a living for a few years but just barely getting by, cleaning carpets, planting a big garden (and doing a lot of canning), eating venison and "caught" fish, paying for heat bills and buying Christmas presents for our children with coon hides, etc..
Sometime in the mid 80's I sold a nice little heavily resharpened "dovetail" (St. Charles) point made from a solid grayish-black lithic material with bright solid yellow inclusions, along with a 3 and 1/8th inch Barbed Hardin, made of Brown County Chert, (a particular local "Payson chert" quarrie(s) unknown.
I asked a mere $150 way back then and Kenny Edwards said, yes I'll Buy the gfq,I.needed money to pay the insurance on our house. insurance or real estate taxes, I don't remember which.
In 1987,if memory serves, I found a Barbed "Hardin" that i sold for $500 dollars.
I told Bobby Onkin , that I had found an amazing Hardin piece. I needed money for the local real estate taxes, . $500 seamed like lot to ask back then.. Bobby said, I'll buy it! , he pulled off his belt, unzipped it and handed me $5 /$100 bills..I wondered if I should have asked more ,Onkin proceeded to drop the Hardin on the aluminum fisher strip under the car door right after he handed me 5/$100 dollar bills.. hard to believe but it didn't hurt or damage the point. He sold it a couple of weeks later to "Ollie Schravanie for$. 2,000. It last sold to Dodd DeCamp, a multi-millionaire collector for approximately $35,000 Dollars in .Texas

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PP

 

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[Mark Todd]

Does the hole go all the way through it? If so maybe a smoke ring (if they exist)?

Cloud blower pipes exist, not sure if that's what you've got in mind, they were used for blowing signals, and all that I've seen were tube shaped.
But to answer your question, the hole is large and does go all the way through. At each end the hole is approximately 1and3/4"s but tapers to about 1and 1/4"s in the middle, where it is very polished.

 

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[Jon Stewart]

Friends found one at an indian site as large as the one you have and they referred to it as a smoke ring. Me, I don't have a clue but it is a neat artifact .

 

[rock]

Id say canoe weight/ anchor. What else could it be used for.

 

[crj1968]

Wow that is pretty crazy looking...Seems over kill- beautiful for an anchor or weight, but being very polished in the middle seems like it was sliding on something...like maybe branches or some sort of rope. Maybe used to start fires somehow.... I dunno- guessing

 

[Mark Todd]

Friends found one at an indian site as large as the one you have and they referred to it as a smoke ring. Me, I don't have a clue but it is a neat artifact .

Thanks for the info., I've never heard a "smoke ring", but I'm sure that there's a lot of things I've never heard of.
Can you tell me what state your friends found one in, and why it was given that particular name,and or what it was used for?
Thank again

 

[mn9000]

I could be wrong but I'd think we'd see more signs of charring or smoke/ash staining if it were used in a fire setting.

 

[Mark Todd]

very nice colletion! good story as well.

Thanks, glad you enjoyed the story, I'm an avid reader of history, and could hardly begin to tell all the amazing stories I've read about others.
Someone once said facts and history are stranger than fiction and would I certainly agree.

 

[Mark Todd]

Fine collection Mark and really enjoyed reading the history of your early collecting days.

Thanks! Most of my collection is a bunch of broken, (tips, midsections, and broken off stems) in zip-lock bags.
Like everyone else, I picked up a a lot of broken artifacts for every whole or relatively whole one that I found.

 

[Mark Todd]

I sure enjoyed that story partner. As a life long Ozark native it really hits home.

My grandfather, grandmother, and my father barely made enough to raise a family in the 1950's & 60's by selling hand tied fishing lures in northern Arkansas. My dad tells story's of finding so many artifacts & grooved ax's etc as a kid that he & his friends would have contests to see who could throw them the furthest across the river.

Hey mn900, I just wanted to say that I appreciated your reply. And also your own short story about your relatives. I don't know what all they did to get by in tough times besides make fishing lures, but I'm guessing that they did a bunch of things to do so.
After reading your reply I decided to go dig in the closet for some old receipts, that you could relate to.
These pictures are of receipts for coon hides and ginseng roots by which we survived and improved our state of living in those days.
Even though the Jimmy Carter years were very dismal and people were leaving my county in droves for lack of work to be had, we stuck it out, and with $1,476 dollars worth of ginseng roots we were able to pay 10% down, in order to begin purchasing the home we own now. Not to many folks out there that paid 10% down on there home with ginseng roots!
The home we purchased was an 18 year old split level ranch home (4 bedroom s) that had sold for $46,000 several years prior but that had dropped to $15,200 when we purchased it!
Again I can say: It was the worst of times and at the same time, it was the best of times!

 

[rock]

I hunted them and skinned them but you had to leave a foot on so the buyers would know they were coons and not the neighbors cat or they wouldnt buy them. I got $10 a coon and it helped fill my gas tank. I also use to catch shinners for bait stores. That was a messy job throwing that cast net I use to get a $1 each for the big ones It was some tough years.

 

[Old Pueblo]

Great collection, really. Did you find those pots?

 

[Old Pueblo]

Cloud blower pipes exist, not sure if that's what you've got in mind, they were used for blowing signals, and all that I've seen were tube shaped.
But to answer your question, the hole is large and does go all the way through. At each end the hole is approximately 1and3/4"s but tapers to about 1and 1/4"s in the middle, where it is very polished. View attachment 1486159 View attachment 1486160 View attachment 1486161

We call them dohnut stones where I come from. The natives made them for something, but I cant remember what.

 

[Mark Todd]

We call them dohnut stones where I come from. The natives made them for something, but I cant remember what.

Thanks for the compliment Old Puebla!
I would be very interested in knowing the area where you come from?
Some artifacts were only made by one particular tribal clan, or only in a certain small region of the country as you probably well know.
Any other information that you might possibly recall concerning the donut stones that you mentioned might help me in my research to try and figure out what it is, who made it, what for. Etc..
Concerning your question about the pottery vessels, see my explanation above in post #13 of this thread. If your interested in more in more information on them and the Crable village site, see information below...

 

[mn9000]

Mark those receipts are great! They really tell a story on their own. Make sure & hang onto those, kids these days need to see things like that to understand what tough times & hard work is really all about.

You guys were definitely some hustlers, 10 pounds of ginseng doesn't come easy. That's incredible.

Here's a few photos of some of the lures my grandad & grandmother made by hand back in the '50's. And here's the amazing part about the whole thing: the weedless brush guard that makes a lure a "weedless" lure--- my grandad literally invented that. He would buy deer tails during the winters from the locals for 10 cents each & dip the deer hair in a fiberglass resin & attach them to the lures. It was a huge success & word spread fast. Everyone urged him to get a patent on it but he refused because he hated lawyers and paperwork so much. By the beginning of the following spring nearly every lure maker in the country had "borrowed" his design and the rest as they say is history.

 

[Mark Todd]

Mark those receipts are great! They really tell a story on their own. Make sure & hang onto those, kids these days need to see things like that to understand what tough times & hard work is really all about.

You guys were definitely some hustlers, 10 pounds of ginseng doesn't come easy. That's incredible.

Here's a few photos of some of the lures my grandad & grandmother made by hand back in the '50's. And here's the amazing part about the whole thing: the weedless brush guard that makes a lure a "weedless" lure--- my grandad literally invented that. He would buy deer tails during the winters from the locals for 10 cents each & dip the deer hair in a fiberglass resin & attach them to the lures. It was a huge success & word spread fast. Everyone urged him to get a patent on it but he refused because he hated lawyers and paperwork so much. By the beginning of the following spring nearly every lure maker in the country had "borrowed" his design and the rest as they say is history. View attachment 1487133

View attachment 1487134

View attachment 1487135

View attachment 1487136

That's so cool that you still have examples of your Grandparents entrepreneurial work! Those lures are examples of free enterprise at work.
I assume the resin coated deer hair stiffened enough to guard the hook from snares
. I can tell that I'd definitely have a good time setting down and chatting with you, we're birds of the same feather for sure.
I've been rock climbing for 20 years and on a couple of occasions camped and climbed at Sams Throne, you anywhere close?
Regardless I appreciated your input AND WOULD REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHERE On THE RIVER YOUR ANCESTORS USED TO THROW ARTIFACTS [emoji6]

The value of the coon skins and ginseng are much more impressive when one looks at the governments own deflation rates. The dollar amount in those days would be approximately 2and 1/2 times as much today.
,

 

[mn9000]

Yes Sams throne is just one county over I think, maybe 2. Sams Throne is in beautiful Newton County Arkansas which has the distinctive claim to fame as having the highest amount of outhouses still in use by its residents per capita. How's that for some random southern trivia

 

[Mark Todd]

Yes Sams throne is just one county over I think, maybe 2. Sams Throne is in beautiful Newton County Arkansas which has the distinctive claim to fame as having the highest amount of outhouses still in use by its residents per capita. How's that for some random southern trivia

Awesome! Small world is it not. And thanks for the outhouse trivia, had no idea at the time I was in a place known for such fame!
Actually the first time I camped there it rained a "turd floater" the first night, I was evidently lucky there were no outhouses in sight, because the next morning my tent looked like an island in the middle of a pond![emoji12]

 

[Tnmountains]

Is that piece from Kentucky? I think I have seen it before or one similar ? Very nice looking collection! ----- Edited. Saw it was not but they look similar. Nice hoe! Great addition! Love to find one!

 

[Mark Todd]

Is that piece from Kentucky? I think I have seen it before or one similar ? Very nice looking collection!

View attachment 1487957

As far I know NO. I purchased it from Bruce Filibrandt who published the "Keokuk Axe book. If you know otherwise I'd like to know!
He said it was found in Illinois.

 

[Mark Todd]

Awesome picture,nicer than mine. The larger ones, over a foot to 1 and a half feet usually sell for well over a thousand dollars. Thought I got a good deal. Bruce Filibrandt has a good reputation and at 82 year old (I think he said) is selling off more of his collection.
Thanks for the compliment Tennesseemountainns!
Here is some more information on millcreek nodules...