My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia - Page 18
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Thread: My abbreviated theory for the Knights Templar treasure in Nova Scotia

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  1. #256
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    Whether it was 11 months or 5 months, you still claimed these galleys remain in the port of La Rochelle with their cargo unloaded because of "knowing full well of the impending trouble for his Order".
    Did you or did you not make this statement?
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  2. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    My purpose with providing this theory is to garner support (not funds) for investigating the actual location of this treasure. A site that I have already recently visited. I don't believe this violates the rules of the forum, but will stand down if asked to by the forum moderators. While starting at what I call the beginning, I will add more information as time permits. The story I will tell eventually concerns a visit to Oak Island and ends near Annapolis Basin, Nova Scotia.

    Part I,
    Troyes France 1099: The Holy Land (Palestine) had just been won through the results of the 1st Crusade, and in Troyes The Count of Champagne, Hugh I, who preferred the Title Count of Troyes kept a keen eye to the events unfolding there. He had already heard from the local Rabbi called Rashi about the Ark of the Covenant which had been hidden below the first Temple built by Solomon. It is well known that most Rabbis of the period felt that the Ark was indeed in caverns below the Old Temple.
    At the same time it was also well known that the Church was on the hunt for religious relics that could help prove the story of Christianity to their congregations.
    Rashi was very famous in Troyes in the very early 12th century as well as in the Court of Champagne located in Troyes. Evidently using information learned from Rashi (who died in 1105) Count Hugh and his Vassel Hughes de Payens went to the Holy Land in 1104. Returning to Troyes in 1108 the two men then founded an order of Knights called "La Milice of Christ", which had as its main objective to uncover religious relics from the area of the Old Temple of Solomon, at this time the location of the Dome of the Rock.
    In about 1113 a little known monk named Bernard along with some thirty men from Burgundy (mostly his own relatives) joined the new Cistercian Order at Citeaux Abbey near Dijon. In 1115 Bernard received donated lands from Hugh I for a new abbey at Claire Vallee, or Clairvaux, near Troyes and from then on he is to be known as Bernard of Clairvaux. From this point on Bernard becomes the main campaigner for the, La Milice of Christ.
    By 1118 this new supposed military order has nine members, all relatives of Count Hugh and or Hughes de Payens and has adopted the official name of "The Poor Knights of Christ and the Temple of Solomon", or more simply "Knights Templar" with de Payens as its first Grand Master. As they have been for a few years already this group of Knights continues to excavate under the Temple area and also throughout Jerusalem for highly sought after Christian religious objects. Although we only have the names of eight of these first Templars, it is almost certain that Count Hugh is the ninth member but remains unnamed as such.
    This excavation being undertaken at the old Temple Mount is well documented, but what was actually found there (if anything) is open to much conjecture.
    It is my opinion that if anything had been found that would help to prove the position and doctrine of the Church it would have been immediately turned over by this staunch Catholic Order.
    But what if they had found something from the still existing Christian Church of Jerusalem, the Church that was originally headed by the brother of Jesus, James, that they believed went against the then current orthodoxy?
    It is certain whatever it was would be taken back to Troyes and for at least the near future been housed at The Court Of Champagne.
    From this humble beginning the Knights Templar Order blossoms into a powerful military organization and begins to actually carry out the original stated purpose of their mission, the protection of pilgrims visiting the Holy Land. Also becoming at the same time very wealthy, a trend that would continue for most of the rest of their existence.
    In Troyes a few years later a story is told of brave Knights searching for an object eventually referred to as "The Holy Grail".
    In 1181 Chretien de Troyes (Chretien of Troyes), a poet who served his patron Marie, Countess of Champagne, was requested by her to write a romance, nconcerning a sacred object called the "Grail" with brave Knights searching for it, a romance he called "Perceval, the story of the Grail". Although unfinished by Chretien, another did complete the story, Robert de Boron. de Boron connected this Grail to the Christian story calling it "The Holy Grail". Another version of the Grail story was composed by Wolfram Von Eschenbach who identified the guardians of this object as Knights Templars. It is for certain that what I call the Troyes connection cannot be overestimated. Also mentioned is a Grail mountain where the Holy Grail was hidden called, "Montsalvat", an obvious connection to a Mountain in the Languedoc area of France named Montsegur, As discussed by the man many call the original Indiana Jones, Otto Rahn. Rahn believed that the Holy Grail had been hid in the Sacred mountain by the Cathar's in the early 13th century. I will discuss both Rahn and the Cathar's relations to my theory a little later. End of part I

    Adjusted Theory Part I, Cheers, Loki
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Jan 14, 2020 at 07:20 AM.
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  3. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Part II,

    As the Templars became a more militant force they also began to acquire sea going vessels and galleys (note; in the early to high middle ages the term"galley"was used generically for any oared or oared with sail type of vessel). From about the middle of the 11 hundreds until 1293 there is documentation that they continually added to their fleet through purchases or by building their own vessels. Most of these would have been of Venetian design, as that type is mentioned many times. "In 1293 they had bought 6 Venetian ships to add to those that in 1300 made a number of raids on the coast of Egypt and Syria, and in November of that year, transported a force of 600 knights to Ruad as a base for an assault on Tortosa" paraphrased from Piers Paul Read's "The Templars".
    In 1300 the Templars had ports at Cyprus (after the fall of Acre, their Eastern Headquarters) Marseille, France ( where they were not very welcome), at Collioure, France, and at La Rochelle, France.
    At La Rochelle, a port that they had been given control of through an 1139 Charter by Eleanor of Aquitaine, "Queen of France" they enjoyed a very lucrative wine trade. Evidently this trade extended all the way to Briton as they also had a license to operate commercial shipping operations to that country.
    In the Templars Paris Headquarters, "Temple Villeneuve", they kept most of their wealth, but on Cyprus, the Eastern Headquarters, they also had a great amount of acquired treasure.
    They had received, through donations, large amounts of lands and houses throughout Europe, mostly in France, but even in faraway Scotland there were some 100 separate Templar properties.
    As the Templars were building this vast treasure, at the same time a religious group was gathering members in the area around Toulouse, now the Languedoc of Southern France.
    Today, they are called the Cathars, a name given to them by their adversaries, the hierarchy of the Roman Church. But in the 12th century they were befriended by the local Catholic Congregations, so much so in fact that in the Crusade that shortly followed in 1209 many Catholics died trying to protect them. Evidently their form of religion did not offend the average Catholic, which makes one wonder why the Church itself thought it necessary to completely wipe out what they called the great heresy.
    The last stand of the Cathars was at the mountain pog of Montsegur, where on March 16, 1244, many of the surrendering defenders were burnt in a funeral pyre. Two days prior to this event and according to German author Otto Rahn's 1939 book "Crusade Against the Grail"(from information he gleaned from inquisition records), 4 knights descended the steep cliffs of Montsegur on ropes and carried away a great secret. Rahn also claimed that the Grail itself was hidden in the mountain.
    Although there is no evidence the Templars fought on either side during this conflict, there is evidence that they did exist alongside, befriended and had relatives within the heretics following.
    Legends tell us, as did the earlier Grail romances that the Templars held the secret of the Grail and after Montsegur in 1244, a physical proof had come into the possession of the Templars.
    By the end of the 13th century the Knights Templar had become one of the wealthiest organizations in Europe and, as I premise they held documentation as to the secret of the Holy Grail as well as the Grail itself.
    In late 1306 Pope Clement V (a pawn of the King of France, Philip IV), ordered the then Grand Master of the Templars, Jacques de Molay, who at the time was at the Cyprus Headquarters, to come back to France "without delay" and not to bring any Knights with him as he already had many in France. The alleged purpose of this visit was to make plans for a new crusade in the Holy Land, but in reality it was part of a plan of Philips to arrest all the Templars in France and end the existence of the order entirely, with the extended purpose of acquiring their immense wealth held in Temple Villeneuve.
    But de Molay knew of the plan, the Templars had friends and allies throughout France, in the Church and even in the Court of Philip himself.
    In early 1307 the Grand Master left Cyprus bound for France with (according to Templar historian Charles Addison) 60 Knights, 150,000 florins of gold and a great amount of silver and other treasures, The 60 Knights directly a violation of Clements order.
    With each Templar Knight known to own at least three horses and having also at least one squire, as well as the sailors and equipment and the Grand Master with his own entourage, it must have been quite an impressive scene.
    With the meeting to have been held in Poitiers, it would have been beneficial for the small fleet (I premise 10 vessels) to sail around the Iberian peninsula and land at the Templar controlled port of La Rochelle. In the late 13th century this type of voyage (around the Iberian peninsula) was becoming more popular, as a matter of fact some 117 years earlier Richard the Lionheart had sent his whole British Fleet around the Iberian.
    In early September of 1307, Philip issued a secret order for the arrest of all Templars in France to be carried out of October 13, 1307. This order was sent to all of the sheriffs in France, and again there is no way de Molay could not have received word of this event.
    It is doubtful he would have even unloaded the ships valuable cargo's at La Rochelle (a possibility only because they basically owned this port), knowing that they would soon have to make an escape.
    The end part II

    Adjusted Theory Part II/ Cheers, Loki
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Jan 14, 2020 at 07:50 AM.
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  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Part III

    This from "The Knights Templar in Britain" by Evelyn Lord, pg 120 "Their main fleet was in La Rochelle, and it was this fleet, berthed away from the theatre of war, that was part of the maritime network linking the order in the British Isles, with the continent."

    With the some 10 vessels I premised recently arriving from Cyprus it would be easy to accept the possibility of 18 ships docked at La Rochelle in early September of 1307.
    What is called a rumor by detractors of the story from "Holy Blood Holy Grail" of 18 ships leaving La Rochelle, is much more than merely a rumor. It is actually part of a statement made by Jean de Chalons, preceptor of the Temple commandery in Namur during the investigation into Templar activities in Poitou.
    de Chalons testimony, now in the archives of the Vatican, "The leaders of the order, expecting the trouble, have fled, and he himself met the brother Gerard de Villiers [Master of France], who had 50 horses with him, and heard people talking that [Gerard] put to sea with 18 galleys and the brother Hughes de Pairaud." To the question, how he managed to keep this secret for so long, he answered, "nobody for anything in the world would dare to reveal it...for if the order's officials would have found out that somebody had let out the secret he would have been killed straight away."
    According to a report by Templar Historian Edward Zaborovsky, there were at least 12 very important escapees wanted by the French Crown, one of these men Gerard de Villiers (The Master of France, and many believe the new Grand Master of the Order)was never seen or heard from again. We also discover an inner secret order that should not be a surprise as all orders seem to have an inner circle. In citing a document in the Vatican Archives, Zaborovsky writes, "The brother Hugues de Chalon, the nephew of the visiter and brother of Gerard de Montclair, warriors of the Order of the Sect of the Temple, together with some accomplices from the same sect planned to kill the King." And we also know that during the burning of Jacques de Molay in 1314, he called upon the King and the Pope to both follow him in death within the year. This did happen which leads us to believe the Inner Sect of the Temple was alive and well.
    Zaborovsky also writes that any of those who wanted to escape had every opportunity to do so, telling us that at least 2500 French Knights were unaccounted for.
    The 18 or so vessels alleged to be at La Rochelle left port with evidently the Templar treasure from Cyprus as well as those treasures held in Paris, sometime in September of 1307 never to be heard from again.
    18 vessels, where did they go? There have been many theory's, turning to piracy being one of them, but it is widely understood that many went to Portugal. In Portugal, King Diniz, rather than arrest or prosecute the Templars, reconstituted them into a new order called "The Order of Christ". Any escaping France Templars were warmly welcomed into the order.
    History tells us that the Order of Christ was involved in seafaring activities even to the founding of the famed navigators school at Sagres by the then Grand Master of the Order, Prince Henry the Navigator. This Order of Christ is also known to have financed the first great wave of Portuguese seagoing explorations. As a matter of fact, the legendary Portuguese explorer, Vasco de Gama was actually a member of the Order of Christ.
    But what of the legends of some Templars escaping to Scotland? At the time it was relatively safe from the arm of the Church and the French King, and there were many Templar holdings already there. In Scotland only two Templars were ever arrested, and those by English authorities who in 1309 had control of a small portion of Scotland which included Holyrood Abbey, where the trials took place.
    There was also a small abbey in the western highlands that was built in the mid-13th century for a Cistercian style order, remember the Templars themselves were basically Cistercian. Called the Valliscaulians, (latin for "The Valley Fold) the abbey itself was called the Ardchattan Priory. With the events concerning the arrests of the order happening in late 1307, it is doubtful if any news of this could have reached Ardchattan until the spring of 1308.
    End of part III

    Adjusted Theory Part III/ Cheers, Loki
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  5. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Adjusted Theory Part I, Cheers, Loki
    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Adjusted Theory Part III/ Cheers, Loki
    Hi According to some of Portugal's Treasures your talking rubbish again . Clearly seen the painting known as the Kings Fountain that Africans held positions in all levels of society and in institutions . Portuguese Africa Silver Salt Canisters and Japanese Panel Art. Images clearly show that Portuguese Traders traded East. Sorry when did Africans join these latter Templars and Freemasons in Britain and North America ? TP
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  6. #261
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    Hi A PAPAL BULL is a sort of a Public Decree made by the Pope on behalf of the Catholic Church.

    Pastoralis Praeeminentiae issued to All Christian Monarchs 22 November 1307 Arrest all Templars and seize all their property on behalf of the Catholic Church . So how do you come to the conclusion that this was a secret arrest conspiracy and the Christian nobility of Scotland was except ? Well the Papal Bull is clear . More rubbish conjured from cutting up bs history books TP
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  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Part IV

    There is some evidence of a Templar presence in the Western Highlands of Scotland in about 1308. Robert the Bruce while preparing to rid Scotland of the English had a secret meeting at the small Abbey of Ardchattan housing a sister order to their own in early 1308. It is said he met with a leader of one of the Western Clans, but being secret nobody knows for sure. I premise he had met with a group of Templars who had wintered at Ardchattan, more that likely to discover their intentions. At the same time a few English and Scottish Knights in the know (of the inner circle) would have shown up at the Priory.
    One of the more famous photos in the Jesus, Mary Magdalene, bloodline theory is of a stained glass window in a small church on the Isle of Mull, very near to Ardchattan Priory. A photo that obviously shows a very pregnant Mary Magdalene walking hand in hand with Jesus.
    There are also carved stone graveslabs in the Western Highlands that some believe represent Templar Knights. This is questioned by many detractors, who claim they only represent local Scottish Knights. Of course this may be true in part, but I have seen most of them and a few must be questioned. And one fact that gets overlooked is that they do represent an immediate change in the type and quality of the actual carvings that occurred in the very early 12th century in this area of Scotland. In other words, it seems that better qualified stone carvers showed up in the Western Highlands at the beginning of the 1300s.
    There was quite a bit of Norse descent (DNA) in this part of Scotland within the Clan Leaders themselves. Even in 1308 the Norse were still making a few voyages to the Greenland Settlements. My premise includes a Norse (Viking), Templar, connection at various times between the acquiring of their first houses in Scotland until the Orders vessels arrived at Ardchattan. A connection that resulted in the knowledge of a water route to the Vikings Vinland. A map that today could have been drawn on a bar napkin.
    With knowledge of a new navigation tool not available to the Vikings, the cross staff, giving them the ability to determine latitude accurately they would, in my opinion, have left for Vinland not much later than early summer of 1308. The newer vessels were already some 14 years old with at most a 25 year lifespan,and there was also the possibility of discovery by English or even French authorities.
    The routes the Norse had used for some three centuries contained no over water legs of longer then around 250 miles, even to the settlement on Newfoundland.
    During the heyday of these legends detractors have always maintained that Templar vessels could not have made these voyages as they couldn't carry enough water and the vessels themselves could not take the rough seas of the Atlantic. But with only about 250 mile legs, I posit water would not be a problem and their seaworthiness had already been well proven after years in the Mediterranean.
    Certainly the Vikings had made this same voyage in vessels even smaller then the Templar vessels 300 years earlier.

    Adjusted Theory Part IV/ Cheers, Loki
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Jan 14, 2020 at 09:38 AM.
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  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    Adjusted Theory Part IV/ Cheers, Loki
    Hi .High level of DNA from Norway in Cornwall Cornwall DNA is not a high level Saxon or Norman . Ancient Briton to be correct . Funny wonder what the Cornish where trading with the Turkish in 6 century after the Romans left . And in Norway theres more than 1000 people tested with a higher Cornish DNA than than of Norway DNA . More historical rubbish conjured from a bs TP
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  9. #264
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    Sooo . . . we have perhaps established Templars in Scotland. 2,600 miles to go to get them discretely to Nova Scotia and then away again without leaving a trace.
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  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by lokiblossom View Post
    ...
    In 1181 Chretien de Troyes (Chretien of Troyes), a poet who served his patron Marie, Countess of Champagne, was requested by her to write a romance, concerning a sacred object called the "Grail" with brave Knights searching for it, a romance he called "Perceval, the story of the Grail".
    Although unfinished by Chretien, another did complete the story, Robert de Boron. de Boron connected this Grail to the Christian story calling it "The Holy Grail" and identified the Knights as Templars. It is for certain that in this part of the story, what I call the Troyes connection cannot be overestimated.
    de Boron, also mentioned a Grail mountain where the Holy Grail was hidden called, "Montsalvat", an obvious connection to a Mountain in the Languedoc area of France named Montsegur,
    As discussed by the man many call the original Indiana Jones, Otto Rahn. Rahn believed that the Holy Grail had been hid in the Sacred mountain by the Cathar's in the early 13th century...
    Otto Rahn was no "Indiana Jones, nor even an archeologist, but a non descript conventional historian enthralled with the Grail romance legends.
    A true fanatic devotee of von Eschenbach and Wagner , he wrote " Crusade Against The Grail" based on his beliefs, NOT on fact. but it did attract the attention of Heinrich Himmler.
    Rahn jumped at the commission to the SS Abnenerbe with rank of Obersturmfuhrer for three meals day, a black Hugo Bass designer uniform, unlimited funds to search for the Grail, and a team of SS Abnenerbe archeologist at his disposal.
    Rahn believed the Grail was the sacred stone, "lapis exilis", not the cup of Christ, and in his zealous conclusion based on various Grail romance tales, sacred geometry relation to other Holy sites, Montsavat became Montsegur of the Cathars, the Grail would not have been removed from such a Holy site, but hidden in a secret location in Montsegur known only to the Cathar Elders, and the Grail Knight Parsifal was a Cathar.
    Himmler was displeased with Rahn with his total failure if producing evidence of Montsegur's underground passages containing the Grail and other religious artifacts, and Rahn was forced to resign.
    Otto Rahn was last seen alive climbing Kurstein Mountain accompanied by two members of the SS, and his frozen body was found, March 13, 1939, a few weeks after his "resignation".
    Otto Rahn is NOT considered as legitimate proof concerning the Frail, Cathers, and Templars.
    Last edited by ECS; Jan 14, 2020 at 02:33 PM.
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  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Otto Rahn was no "Indiana Jones, nor even an archeologist, but a non descript conventional historian enthralled with the Grail romance legends.
    A true fanatic devotee of von Eschenbach and Wagner , he wrote " Crusade Against The Grail" based on his beliefs, NOT on fact. but it did attract the attention of Heinrich Himmler.
    Rahn jumped at the commission to the SS Abnenerbe with rank of Obersturmfuhrer for three meals day, a black Hugo Bass designer uniform, unlimited funds to search for the Grail, and a team of SS Abnenerbe archeologist at his disposal.
    Rahn believed the Grail was the sacred stone, "lapis exilis", not the cup of Christ, and in his zealous conclusion based on various Grail romance tales, sacred geometry relation to other Holy sites, Montsavat became Montsegur of the Cathars, the Grail would not have been removed from such a Holy site, but hidden in a secret location in Montsegur known only to the Cathar Elders, and the Grail Knight Parsifal was a Cathar.
    Himmler was displeased with Rahn with his total failure if producing evidence of Montsegur's underground passages containing the Grail and other religious artifacts, and Rahn was forced to resign.
    Otto Rahn was last seen alive climbing Kurstein Mountain accompanied by two members of the SS, and his frozen body was found, March 13, 1939, a few weeks after his "resignation".
    Otto Rahn is NOT considered as legitimate proof concerning the Frail, Cathers, and Templars.
    Good point !
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  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinpan View Post
    Hi A PAPAL BULL is a sort of a Public Decree made by the Pope on behalf of the Catholic Church.

    Pastoralis Praeeminentiae issued to All Christian Monarchs 22 November 1307 Arrest all Templars and seize all their property on behalf of the Catholic Church . So how do you come to the conclusion that this was a secret arrest conspiracy and the Christian nobility of Scotland was except ? Well the Papal Bull is clear . More rubbish conjured from cutting up bs history books TP
    And eventually disbanded by the pope 1312.

    The ones who survived along with King Dinis I of Portugal created "The Order Of Christ" in 1317... which was the beginning of the far more secretive society / order.
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  13. #268
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    Bah ... read Tins post wrong... heh

    "as you were".. :P
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  14. #269
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    Theory Part V

    After, what would probably have been an arduous voyage following the route the Vikings constantly used to reach their Greenland farms, later Newfoundland and their storied Vinland;

    In mid-1308, after sailing South along the Atlantic Coast the few Templar vessels arrived at the Vikings Vinland (conjecture, as we are not sure where the Vikings Vinland was exactly),of Nova Scotia looking for a site to rest themselves and repair vessels. At Oak Island they found such a location, but is there any outside evidence of this?

    Although a secret mission they did leave traces that indicate the presence of a group that had recently (just over a year ago) left the Middle East, Cyprus to be exact. In Cyprus and the rest of the areas of the Far Eastern Mediterranean a material known as "coir" was used for ships ropes and packing in holds of cargo vessels. Made from coconut fibre that during the period in question was only produced in the Far East (China, India, ect.) India being the country that is actually confirmed as a major producer of the coir and India is known to have traded with countries of the Eastern Mediterranean.

    On Oak Island, coconut fibre was found and dated in 1993 by Beta Analytic to about 1229 ad give or take some 70 years. Beta also indicated that 'coconut fibre' was an ideal substance to date.
    In 1970, samples of fibre from the beach at Smith's Cove were sent to the Chief Botanist at the National museum of Natural Sciences, Canada; He wrote that three of the four samples were coconut fibre, indicating that sometimes other types of materials are accidentally picked off the beach mixed in with or mistaken for the coconut fibre.

    At that time coconuts did not exist anywhere in the Atlantic Basin, including The Mediterranean or The Caribbean. They were only introduced to the Atlantic in 1499 by Portuguese sailors.

    If any other sailors had visited both the Middle East and Vinland during the period in question ie, such as the Portuguese, although unlikely, it would have been well recorded as all voyages of discovery were. But why would they load a cargo in the Eastern Mediterranean then sail to their own Western Mediterranean port and later take that same cargo to the far Western Atlantic region?

    Next up, "Clues" if you hide something that must be found lifetimes later you must leave clues that will last lifetimes!

    Cheers, Loki
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Jan 15, 2020 at 07:57 AM.

  15. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinpan View Post
    Hi A PAPAL BULL is a sort of a Public Decree made by the Pope on behalf of the Catholic Church.

    Pastoralis Praeeminentiae issued to All Christian Monarchs 22 November 1307 Arrest all Templars and seize all their property on behalf of the Catholic Church . So how do you come to the conclusion that this was a secret arrest conspiracy and the Christian nobility of Scotland was except ? Well the Papal Bull is clear . More rubbish conjured from cutting up bs history books TP
    I don't understand a lot of your posts tp, but I will ask you this one question, how many Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities?
    Actually no Templars were arrested by Scottish authorities!
    Last edited by lokiblossom; Jan 15, 2020 at 12:07 PM.

 

 
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