Forest Service Historical Site Markings

[GunRunner]

Does anyone know if there is any truth to the story the Forest Service uses different patterns/colors of surveyor tape to mark areas of historical/archaeological importance? I have heard of this over the years but just last week I was quad riding in a remote area near Cultus lake and saw something "red" setting on a rock in the distance away under a rock outcropping. I looked at it with binocs and I could see it was a taped wrapped rock. I walked out to it and found a rock wrapped with red surveyor tape with an "A" marked on it with a sharpie. This was fresh tape and intended to mark something. A quick look around revealed several very old cans and a broken glass jar with a piece that had the "Quaker Oats" symbol on it. I may have to head back out there and do some MD'ing.

 

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[jog]

There are areas that they use a green or red reflective tag at the beginning of roads. Red means no entry and green means ok for motorized vehicles.

 

[elkman13]

Anything in Oregon over 50 years old is off limits on State or BLM. Read someone by Bend was digging in old 1940 logging camp and got a ticket.

 

[Jeffro]

There are a lot of instances where the Forest Circus does something that makes absolutely no sense. I went over east one time to a spot I had done some research on and looked pretty good for MD ing. When i got there, it was labeled as a historic site with signs saying no metal detecting and other activities like atving, cutting firewood, etc.

Right smack dab in the middle of the site was a caretakers trailer, a new road cut, cleared trees, and grading being done in a spot we are not allowed to metal detect on. It looked like hell for a "protected" site.

Used to be a ghost town, no buildings standing.

If they were protecting the trees, why the big azz slash pile from the trees they removed?

If they were protecting archaeology from us metal detectorsists, why scrape up the top foot of soil everywhere?

If they were protecting this site from ATVers, why are bulldozers OK?

AND a big ol' campfire pit in the middle of field with beer cans strewn all around, right where I wanted to detect, but was not allowed. (Less than 50 yards from the "caretakers" trailerhouse.)


I sincerely wish some genius had tried giving me a ticket at that particular spot. I'da loved my day in court.

 

[GunRunner]

I went over east one time to a spot I had done some research on and looked pretty good

If you don't mind me asking where was/is this site? If it is close to me I would like to go have a look and see what the current status of it is.

 

[jog]

Take a camera!!

 

[Jeffro]

It was over near John Day somewhere- I think a little east of the fossil beds. Cyn would know the name and I've already got a pm in to her. I'd love to see what became of this place myself if you're up for a little trip!

 

[GunRunner]

Thanks - I could probably get out there yet this summer and check it out. So when did the Sissorville/Mayflower site get wiped out!! I read your post on that. I used to spend a lot of time out in that area but it has been a few years. How about the other site just down the road - I believe it was named the Liberty Mine? That was the one that also had a few outbuildings as well as a stamp mill that stood for many years but then finally fell down. You may know the one I am talking about - there used to be the remains of an old army truck laying down there - if you were there you would remember that. It too was on Ochoco Creek not far from the mine on the left with the old "hotel" looking building near the log cabin right off of 26.

 

[Jeffro]

I went over east one time to a spot I had done some research on and looked pretty good

If you don't mind me asking where was/is this site? If it is close to me I would like to go have a look and see what the current status of it is.

Near as I can recall it was an old ghost town named Howard, at the mouth of scissor creek that was active from 1872-1890. Took a bit of prying to get that one out of my noggin! I do remember there is currently a CCC camp just downstream a coupla miles, if that helps locate it. I'd sure apperciate an update on this place. I'd like to know what "improvements" were made where we couldn't use a screwdriver to pry a few loose coins out of the ground. :P

 

[GunRunner]

I know where Howard is - the old Howard school still stands but is a historical site and is on private property. But this is not near John Day so if there is somewhere else you are thinking about let me know. I'll take a ride out there in a couple of weeks and give you an update. On another note do you know of the mine site I spoke about in my previous reply?

 

[Jeffro]

Not offhand- I don't even recall the post you are refering to? I've only been out to that area once on a trip with Cyn and Dave about a year ago.

Howard must not be the site I was thinking of as there were no buildings standing.

Getting older is a pain in the butt- LOL!

 

[lostcauses]

plehbah good catch.

I wounder if just saying possibly 10 years in jail and an ungodly fine, confiscation of all vehicles used to transport and any other equipment; Not counting the legal fees involved if caught: for such would get the point across.

Personally I believe all post like this should stay. It has a logged IP and if the feds need such, well there it is.
Maybe lock em and move them to a form just for such saving.
That would be good for this site to be useful to the feds law enforcement.
The date on the original post is Posted on: Jul 12, 2009.
The site could already be looted and this post could be the key to finding the person who did it.

Just some thoughts on such behavior.

 

[jeff of pa]

Does anyone know if there is any truth to the story the Forest Service uses different patterns/colors of surveyor tape to mark areas of historical/archaeological importance? I have heard of this over the years but just last week I was quad riding in a remote area near Cultus lake and saw something "red" setting on a rock in the distance away under a rock outcropping. I looked at it with binocs and I could see it was a taped wrapped rock. I walked out to it and found a rock wrapped with red surveyor tape with an "A" marked on it with a sharpie. This was fresh tape and intended to mark something. A quick look around revealed several very old cans and a broken glass jar with a piece that had the "Quaker Oats" symbol on it. I may have to head back out there and do some MD'ing.

Are you seriously posting here about intentionally sabotaging the efforts of an archaeological crew on Federal land? What makes you think you have any right to go back on your quad and detect the site they have flagged out?

This is against the law, and I also think that the trend among metal detectorists is to foster an air of mutual appreciation and cooperation between detectorists and archaeologists, and now here you are, posting on this website about actually going to a site you have determined to have been marked for further investigation/research, and trying to find the stuff for yourself.

We can argue about examples where the system has failed in the proper place and at the proper time.

Your post here about looting a site identified for further research, and also asking for instructions on how to better do so in the future is appalling.

I do not do it often, but I am going to report this post to the moderators. This post is trying very hard to undo the good work for this hobby that TreasureNet and its' membership are undertaking.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

looks to me if he is Unsure.
I Don't see where it says this red tape
Is marking a site Only the question

This Red tape could be many things
including another Detectorists Marker.

The question should Be, Is the land
Open to detecting & Is Permission
Granted to do so ?

I Would Hope if it's an archaeological Site
on land open to detecting there should be
someone who can tell you.

entrapment is illegal isn't it ?

Around here a Red marker
could be someone marking a trail
to marking their Favorite Deer Hunting Spot.
or any number of reasons. Including
"Meet me here"

 

[lostcauses]

"Is the land
Open to detecting?"

If it is federal Forest Service, NO.
Simple all them federal laws of artifacts: man made over 50 years old are in play. There are the state laws also.
As for his post. Well the marker could be anything. It still wold not mater if an Arch site or not.
And a marker does not make entrapment.

Does anyone know if there is any truth to the story the Forest Service uses different patterns/colors of surveyor tape to mark areas of historical/archaeological importance? I have heard of this over the years but just last week I was quad riding in a remote area near Cultus lake and saw something "red" setting on a rock in the distance away under a rock outcropping. I looked at it with binocs and I could see it was a taped wrapped rock. I walked out to it and found a rock wrapped with red surveyor tape with an "A" marked on it with a sharpie. This was fresh tape and intended to mark something. A quick look around revealed several very old cans and a broken glass jar with a piece that had the "Quaker Oats" symbol on it. I may have to head back out there and do some MD'ing.

Are you seriously posting here about intentionally sabotaging the efforts of an archaeological crew on Federal land? What makes you think you have any right to go back on your quad and detect the site they have flagged out?

This is against the law, and I also think that the trend among metal detectorists is to foster an air of mutual appreciation and cooperation between detectorists and archaeologists, and now here you are, posting on this website about actually going to a site you have determined to have been marked for further investigation/research, and trying to find the stuff for yourself.

We can argue about examples where the system has failed in the proper place and at the proper time.

Your post here about looting a site identified for further research, and also asking for instructions on how to better do so in the future is appalling.

I do not do it often, but I am going to report this post to the moderators. This post is trying very hard to undo the good work for this hobby that TreasureNet and its' membership are undertaking.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

looks to me if he is Unsure.
I Don't see where it says this red tape
Is marking a site Only the question

This Red tape could be many things
including another Detectorists Marker.

The question should Be, Is the land
Open to detecting & Is Permission
Granted to do so ?

I Would Hope if it's an archaeological Site
on land open to detecting there should be
someone who can tell you.

entrapment is illegal isn't it ?

Around here a Red marker
could be someone marking a trail
to marking their Favorite Deer Hunting Spot.
or any number of reasons. Including
"Meet me here"

 

[GunRunner]

To Jeffro - Man am I sorry! The post I was referring to was started by Jog - and Jog when you read this please re-read my replies to Jeffro and let me know what YOU know about the mine areas in the Ochocos and anything new you have learned.

 

[GunRunner]

Thanks Jeff Of Pa for the support

looks to me if he is Unsure.
I Don't see where it says this red tape
Is marking a site Only the question

I cannot believe how much was "read into" my original post about a simple question hoping someone would be able to answer. I NEVER once suggested I would be looting this site - how did the suggestion of my possibly returning to the spot to do a little MD'ing suggest "looting"? If that is the case I can cite MANY examples by others whose posts and replies could suggest "looting" but for some reason my post struck a nerve and I was unfairly chastised, or should I say attacked for my question. If I had ANY thoughts on doing anything at this supposed site (which I do not due to other interests) I would have not even posted my original question. I am a little smarter than that. I have been "swinging one" for over 37 years now and have NEVER broken any laws, MD'd where I should not have. I have given finds to landowners and donated finds to Historical Causes. Quite frankly I enjoy this forum but if a simple, honest question is going to result in this much grief then I am in the wrong place.

 

[Jeffro]

Does anyone know if there is any truth to the story the Forest Service uses different patterns/colors of surveyor tape to mark areas of historical/archaeological importance? I have heard of this over the years but just last week I was quad riding in a remote area near Cultus lake and saw something "red" setting on a rock in the distance away under a rock outcropping. I looked at it with binocs and I could see it was a taped wrapped rock. I walked out to it and found a rock wrapped with red surveyor tape with an "A" marked on it with a sharpie. This was fresh tape and intended to mark something. A quick look around revealed several very old cans and a broken glass jar with a piece that had the "Quaker Oats" symbol on it. I may have to head back out there and do some MD'ing.

Are you seriously posting here about intentionally sabotaging the efforts of an archaeological crew on Federal land? What makes you think you have any right to go back on your quad and detect the site they have flagged out?

This is against the law, and I also think that the trend among metal detectorists is to foster an air of mutual appreciation and cooperation between detectorists and archaeologists, and now here you are, posting on this website about actually going to a site you have determined to have been marked for further investigation/research, and trying to find the stuff for yourself.

We can argue about examples where the system has failed in the proper place and at the proper time.

Your post here about looting a site identified for further research, and also asking for instructions on how to better do so in the future is appalling.

I do not do it often, but I am going to report this post to the moderators. This post is trying very hard to undo the good work for this hobby that TreasureNet and its' membership are undertaking.

Actually Plebs and others who may be interested, it is perfectly legal to detect on Forest Service lands. Do some actual research and don't rely on BS being posted by those who don't know any better.

Glad you kept objectivity there Jeff!

 

[GunRunner]

Your post here about looting a site identified for further research and also asking for instructions on how to better do so in the future is appalling.

AND to those of you who responded with accusations (see above quote) you apparently have the answer for me

a site identified for further research

Do you know this to be true? If so please tell me where you got the answer and I will confirm that and thank you AND...

asking for instructions on how to better do so in the future is appalling

Where in my original post did I ask for "instructions" on how to "loot"?

What is appalling here is the failure of some to carefully read posts before going off half-cocked, misinterpreting and responding to something that was not even suggested.

 

[GunRunner]

Thanks Jeffro for the support

Do some actual research and don't rely on BS being posted by those who don't know any better.

And to those who do not know any better I do my research and that has kept me OUT of trouble for those 37 years!!

 

[lostcauses]

"I may have to head back out there and do some MD'ing."
So how do you do such??
Your full statment is
"Does anyone know if there is any truth to the story the Forest Service uses different patterns/colors of surveyor tape to mark areas of historical/archaeological importance? I have heard of this over the years but just last week I was quad riding in a remote area near Cultus lake and saw something "red" setting on a rock in the distance away under a rock outcropping. I looked at it with binocs and I could see it was a taped wrapped rock. I walked out to it and found a rock wrapped with red surveyor tape with an "A" marked on it with a sharpie. This was fresh tape and intended to mark something. A quick look around revealed several very old cans and a broken glass jar with a piece that had the "Quaker Oats" symbol on it. I may have to head back out there and do some MD'ing."

One would ASSume that you intended to go on forest service property and MD'ing the site.
This normally means to go and use a metal detector to locate and retrieve items of metal. Which from the whole post you made, is on forest service land. You did not use forestry land, which is the normal term for state property. The area around Cultus lake is NATIONAL forest.
So from this one can easily ASSume that you are discussing breaking federal archeology laws, by what was said.

I can be wrong.

Of and on such subjects,

http://www.governor.state.or.us/OPRD/HCD/ARCH/arch_laws.shtml

A good link on some of the laws, including the federal. I have not gotten around to posting in the legal forum; these laws yet.

Good luck and be careful.