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Thread: The Pearl Ship

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  1. #211
    us
    Jun 2009
    4

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    I've researched a good bit on this subject and it's my belief that there is
    more than one ship in this area due to the variations in the accounts describing the
    locations.
    I am very interested in the viking ship, as the earth was warmer and sea levels were higher in the 11Th and 12Th centuries it seems reasonable that a good part of this area was under water at that time since it is below sea level even today and little is known about the actual extent of viking travel into the Americas.
    Secondly, the idea of there being a Chinese junk, as new evidence is coming out every year supporting china's travel to America.(there are some very compelling and interesting books/websites on these subjects if anyone is interested.)
    Lastly the caravel seems the most plausible. I don't believe that it necessarily has to be Spanish or that of Juan De Iturbe. (I've been trying to get ahold of first hand or government documentation of De Iturbe actually loosing a ship.)
    Supposing a ship sent from wherever ended up in lake Cahuilla and none of the crewmen returned to tell about it, there would be no documentation other than that of a missing ship, of which there are many. If the ship was a private or pirating vessel there likely would be no documentation at all.
    So anyway that's just a summary of my views. Of course there are certain spots I think a ship might be hiding for certain reasons & my motivation is not to find pearls or treasure but a piece of history.
    As per the last post, i have seen a lot of old maps of this region but don't recall specifically seeing one that showed the Gila emptying directly into the gulf.
    If anyone is interested in sharing information or even an expedition let me know. I regret jumping in on this topic so late, as I'm new to this forum.
    cheers!

  2. #212
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    42 times

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    No regrets !!
    Welcome to T-Net.
    Glad to have you aboard.
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  3. #213
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
    ace 250
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    26 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    hey gang,
    Well some will tell you, that this and the pegleg smith story are my two MOST favorite. I have dug loooong and deep on this. Surrealpillow, I have been in contact with a researcher in Madrid ( the Spanish archives ), to check on the same thing. But frankly right now I do NOT have $2K to invest in this ( times being they way they are ). But if you find anything PLEASE send me a PM.... I would like to hear what you found - if you are willing to share -. Sayhello there are many, many old maps, but I don't remember one that showed the Gila as a river going into the gulf. However, the Colorado may have been " mislabeled " as the Gila, and maybe that's what you are referring to Here's a map from 1702, that shows the Gila flowing into the Colorado ( I know it's no help - sorry - ). The oldest map I know of is 1587 and there is also a Dutch map from 1602, but both show the Colorado. In fact the dutch one doesn't even show the Gila at all.... But if you find something....... I'm all ears..

    PLL

  4. #214
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,662
    1528 times

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    WELCOME TO TREASURENET Surrealpillow!


    Please do continue! I too think it a good possibility that there could be more than one lost ship in the desert. I have been trying to locate photos of the "Viking ship" which was supposedly photographed. Juan de Iturbe made it back to "civilization" or we would not even know the story of the Pearl ship, and there was an investigation according to at least one source. So you may be able to locate original documents in this case. With the other ships it is another question. If a Viking ship did end up trapped in Lake Coahuilla, there is little chance of any written record, though the Mayo Indians of Mexico have a legend that might "fit" with Vikings, and Mayos were known for often having blond hair and blue eyes. The English pirate or privateer ship Content is another candidate, but "officially" it is just another lost ship. The UK has good records of ships, but when one just disappeared we don't have any record. I look forward to reading more, and our amigo Pegleglooker has a great deal of info I hope he won't mind sharing!
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  5. #215
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
    ace 250
    1,784
    26 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    hey gang,
    SENOR ORO!!!!!! Ola Amigo..... How goes it I hope the cattle ( or horses I don't remember ) are in their corrals and snug like bug.....I'm VERY glad to see you are still being as active as you can be, with work and all. And I humbly thank you for the " kudos " about the pearl ship. It's true I have been researching this for YEARS and have gained a sizable library of sorts. If anyone has any questions ( that I can answer ) I am all ears and will gladly share what I have...As for the viking ship, the photo was shown to Myrtle Botts by a traveling prospector. Botts was in the Terra Blanca Mts off the S2 near the Canebrake canyon, Botts was the head librarian in Julian and a avid flower lover. After sharing a meal with the prospector, he told here where the ship was located and she did find it !!! But as she was leaving, a earthquake struck and the side of the hill fell taking the ship with it to the bottom of the canyon...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I am of belief that Iturbe NEEDS to be researched in the archive to either say he is... or is not one of the top candidates... The other is the captain of the Content Thoams Cavendish and there are several smaller " pirates that worked up and down the Baja and Californian coast....

    enjoy
    PLL

  6. #216
    us
    TEA...taxed enough already

    Oct 2005
    San Diego California
    Bounty Hunter
    230
    7 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    I received a recent photo of a petroglyph from the Pinto Canyon area just north of the Mex. border from a hiker. The obvious striking image of a single sail/mast (square rig) can be seen among the stick figures. This area is many miles from the coast and just north of La Rumorosa, which overlooks Laguna Salada, and is in the vicinity of the sighting of the Vikiing Dragon ship supposedly found in the mountains of this region.
    Anyone interested in mor details, just ask here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #217
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    42 times

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    That is way cool Bob,
    It even has oars!
    I wouldn't have expected to see that .
    WOW

    Thom
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  8. #218
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
    ace 250
    1,784
    26 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    hey gang,
    Hey Bob, do you know if the rock art has been dated by anyone ?? I also think that the Laguna Salada area " may " be one of the the hotspots for a lost ship.... Or at least the Viking Saga, getting back to the rock, what elevation was it found at and what direction was it facing ( N S E or W ). And lastly was found on the northern end, maybe near Davies Canyon ? Looking forward to your answer.....

    Thx
    PLL

  9. #219
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,662
    1528 times

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    HOLA mi amigo Pegleglooker! Thank you for asking - been busy as h-ll and often don't get home so can't get online much. Fortunately now that the cattle are in the summer pasture (branding etc is done) I hope to get home more often. I hope you are doing well and look forward to more of your posts.
    your amigo in 'Dakota Territory'
    Roy ~ Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  10. #220
    us
    TEA...taxed enough already

    Oct 2005
    San Diego California
    Bounty Hunter
    230
    7 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    I picked up the recent issue today and read the article, which had no pics. The author, a respected wedding photog, sent me all the pics from the trip. It is obviously legit. South of the border near La Rumorosa, there are many similar markings in the mountains. Google la rumorosa). The article is at http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/jun/03/cover/

    And the website pics are at http://robertmarcos.com/pinto-canyon. I have asked the author if he had the GPS coordinates of the site but have not received a reply. I ask all Tnetters NOT to contact him because I have not explained to him the possible significance of the artwork, and he is (according to his article) upset at fing a picture of a boat rather than a saber tooth cat.

    I will keep you informed if I get a response to the GPS request. In the meantime, please respect his privacy...he knows nothing of Tnet.

    Bob

  11. #221
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
    ace 250
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    26 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    HOLA mi amigo Pegleglooker! Thank you for asking - been busy as h-ll and often don't get home so can't get online much. Fortunately now that the cattle are in the summer pasture (branding etc is done) I hope to get home more often. I hope you are doing well and look forward to more of your posts.
    your amigo in 'Dakota Territory'
    Roy ~ Oroblanco
    Hey Roy,
    If you have any " extra " steaks, I can eassssssily send you my address < hint hint > LOL

    PLL


  12. #222
    us
    Jun 2009
    4

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    Thanks for the info bobinsd! hope to hear more from you.
    As for Juan DE Iturbe, someone mentioned contacting the Spanish archival records.
    There are two books that anyone specifically researching him might be interested in:
    A New Island Biography of the Sea of Cortez
    which mentions him and his exploits in the first chapter.
    And:
    Geographic and Hydrographic Descriptions of Many Northern and Southern Lands and Seas in the Indies, Specifically of the Discovery of the Kingdom of California

    Which was written by Nicolas De Cardona, who supposedly was in charge of the fleet from which the 'pearl ship' came. After getting injured, he and a ship returned to Acapulco leaving Juan De Iturbe in charge. He does mention De Iturbe several times and may record him loosing a ship.

    I haven't read either in their entirety, although I plan to. So far the only thing I've read that actually mentions De Iturbe loosing a ship was The Voyage of the Flame which was a fictional book and seems to be the basis for most of the myths found on the internet.

  13. #223
    Charter Member
    us
    Sharing the culture, history and adventure of the American Southwest.

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
    ace 250
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    26 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    Hi Surreal,
    There are a few books that mention De Iturbe, he is mentioned quite a bit as a kings " snitch " while on trips going to Australia. But the reason for the search in the archives is to " prove " that he did indeed lose a ship. Because if that REALLY happened then the king would want to talk you.... that's for sure..... I have some records from the archives, just not the one I'm looking for. If Iturbe ( actually it's spelled Yturbe ) did lose his ship he would have to explain himself to the king and there should be a record of this. This record should include where the ship was lost and a record of his journey back to the gulf. According to what I read, his ship had a crew of 100 men, yet only less than 10 people made it back alive. One of these men was the king's scribe, and he would have made a record of the whole ordeal. This is the record that I'm looking for, I have a approximate area that I think the ship was lost in and this record would either agree or disagree with my findings. If it agrees then tha next step is to head out a MD the area and see if anything shows up...If anyone knows a " cheap " way of getting the records I'm listening.....

    PLL

  14. #224
    us
    Jun 2009
    4

    Re: The Pearl Ship

    hello pegleglooker! Its nice to toss ideas around with someone interested in the same story.

    If I'm not mistaken, at the time in question De Iturbe was employed by the Cardona company which was granted an exclusive licence by the Spanish government for pearl fishing in the sea of Cortes. I'm not so certain the king himself was too concerned with one particular caravel being lost, but De Iturbe would definitely have to answer to the Cardona company because thats who owned the ship. Again I could be mistaken on some of this, please correct me if I am. According to some reading I did today on the subject, De Iturbe actually lost several ships to Dutch privateers in these waters during the course of ten to twenty years, but still no mention of a landlocked ship. What are your thoughts on the story of a certain family coming to El centro poor in the early 20Th century and leaving rich? reportedly building a pig pen out of the old timbers from the ship. I don't know the family's name off hand.

    Also do you find the maps, or renditions, regarding the extent of lake cahuilla helpful at all in forming your opinions?

  15. #225
    Miss

    Sep 2006
    california
    101
    5 times

    Re: The Pearl Ship (research funding)

    PL is there anyway to set up a non profit research fund type thingy to answer the archive question.
    i'd be willing to add a miniscule amount (not more than $10.00) to something like that. if enough curious people chipped in. we could get the answer.

 

 
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