Low-alpha / antiquity lead

[chengiskhan]

Hi All,

I am looking for antiquity or "low-alpha" lead.

This lead would need to be from the early 1700's or even older.

Most likely place to find it would be on ancient shipwrecks.

Does anyone have access to this lead?

[4theMoney]

Just curious...... What do you need low alpha lead for?

[theGOLD]

You got me too, whats it for?? And how much of it too?

-GOLD

[chengiskhan]

My client is a lead processor. They refine, process, QA, and mold the material for semicon companies who use low-alpha lead as solder for high-end chips.

We are looking for up to several tons of the material.

If you want to talk about pricing, we can discuss off line. Thanks!

[ivan salis]

this type of lead is highly desired for highly specialized electronic use use since its not contamanated with radation from nuke fall out from WW2 and later weapon testing ---as such it fetchs top dollar price. --now you know--- Ivan

[theGOLD]

And knowing's half the battle.... ....... ......... ........ (anyone want to finish it??)


-GOLD

[ivan salis]

"now we know -- and knowing is half the battle" -- gi joe quip from tv show(

I say ----* knowing is half the battle * and doing is the other half --- knowledge unused might just as well have not ever been known in the first place * there are those the know not but try in vain -- their are those who know but try not for lack of will -- then there are those who both know and do -- they are men and women of renown.

[rgecy]

I think we have had this conversation before when my buddy PegLeg was around!

Do a search for Low-Alpha Lead.

Robert

[ivan salis]

good ole pegleg god rest his soul.

[tridentresearch]

chengiskhan...see my PM to you.
TR

[FISHEYE]

Low alpha lead from before world war 2 is worth well over $180.00 a pound.Thats what it was going for several years ago.Its alot more now since its rare.dont sell yourself short.

[4theMoney]

Fisheye, Is it only 200yr+ old stuff or any that is pre WW2, pre-nuclear?

[FISHEYE]

The reason for `old' lead being less radioactive than `newer' lead is that
when you extract metal from its ore you inevitably mix in air/fuel & stuff
with it, and if that stuff is radioactive, the metal ends up radioactive
too. Environmental radiation levels were considerably lower before 1945,
and so metal smelted before 1945 is a good deal less radioactive than
metal produced since.Lead from stained-glass windows,lead bullets,lead pipes,lead ballast,lead ships hull sheathing,lead roofing,ingots is such.

It all has to do with the decay chains in the lead ore, not with the
atomic explosions after 1945.

Once the lead is separated from its ore,
the decay chain is broken, but it still takes a lot of time for the
radioactive Pb isotopes to decay into stable nuclei. Hence the interest
in getting very old lead.

Some years back a Roman galley was discovered by divers with a cargo of
lead ingots. Archeologists got to retain the impressed tops of the
ingots. The remainder of the metal was merchandized to shielding
manufacturers (and now, one presumes the electronics market) at premium
price.

This guy from a certain solder company told me was that there is currently
a worldwide shortage of low-alpha lead.He said IBM was practically
begging for somebody to sell them low- alpha solder.About 10 years ago,
IBM did a massive survey of all the lead mines in the world, and they
bought one that had extremely low levels of radioactive lead.

That mine was exhausted about two years ago.And when IBM went back to
looking for low-alpha lead, they discovered that Intel had beaten them to
it.He said Intel had bought up all the sources of low-alpha lead,and
that they were even buying old stained-glass windows from churches to get
the lead out of those!


Low alpha lead an essential material for reducing 'soft errors' in sensitive flip-chip applications, the demand for low-alpha lead solder is growing.Soft errors are mistakes in logical calculations induced by positively charged particles colliding with logic components in embedded memory and high speed integrated circuits.Traditional solder materials used in flip-chip interconnect are naturally imbued with alpha emitting particles and thus cause unacceptable error rates in the circuit devices.

For sensitive integrated circuit applications,in particular those with small transistor geometries and high frequencies of operation,high rates of alpha emission from the interconnect material results in high failure rates.Relative to the high cost of wafer fabrication,low-alpha lead based products provide an effective and inexpensive solution to the problem of soft errors.

[FISHEYE]

chengiskhan last year was only offering $8.00 a pound for low alpha lead,a far cry less than what its really worth.Back in 1998 intel paid $250.00 a pound for the lead.Im sure its worth around $300 or more by now since its really hard to get.

[chengiskhan]

Fisheye is referring directly to the following web info:
http://www.petting-zoo.net/~deadbeef/archive/879.html

You can see that much of what he has written is simply copy and paste.

This email has been the basis of so much misinformation. The application of LAL is accurate, but the pricing is dead wrong. It is from 1996 and no longer relevant. A lot has changed in the 12 years since then, most notably demand. Demand for this material has become very low, which has affected the price significantly. However, I happen to know who the buyers are. I have also been in direct contact with the companies listed in the above-referenced web page (as well as Fisheye's misguided rant).

Fisheye, are you making pricing claims based on actually having sold the material? I bet NOT!

I don't know anyone who is paying that kind of money anymore, and I've been in this business since 1996!

My client is a metals processor, and after all the value additions to raw low-alpha lead (testing, inventorying, refining, processing, QA-ing, molding, and packing the material), they don't charge their end clients but a fraction of the numbers you are talking about.

So don't run your mouth about things you don't actually know about!

If anyone is actually serious about providing supply, please contact me off line.

Thanks!

[FISHEYE]

chengiskhan,

Just so you know,i have been in the recycle of metals and precious metals biz for well over 40 years,I know who all the buyers are of the low alpha lead and have been offered many high prices for it.One company even offered to pay all my expenses to recover aprox 15 tons of lead off a shipwreck that i know off in international waters.One thing i hate the most in the recycle biz is people that try and lowball me or anyone else to make a very large profit off of them.And you say demand is low for low alpha lead?If it was rare to find 10 years ago,then its even more rare to find now.If demand is low then why are you looking for it?I smell something fishy.Therefore makers of solder will pay alot more for it.Its supply and demand that drives up scrap metal prices.This is just as bad as offering face value on historic gold and silver coins off shipwrecks.

[chengiskhan]

I stand by everything I have said. The retail price of this material after all the value has been added is a tiny fraction of the numbers you are talking about. I have been on the retail end of this value chain with ALL of the major buyers. I know who the actual retail buyers are. I KNOW you cannot say the same. You have probably spoken to the same middle men that I know or at least know of.

People may have given you false hope and promises left and right, but I have actually bought material within the last 2 years. I assure you that demand is quite low. I realize that supply is also low. In any case, the market is based on ACTUAL TRANSACTIONS, not false promises and claims. I have been party to these transactions.

[Trond]

In other words, all the old lead i have in buckets will increase in value every day.


Interesting.


Thank you for the tip chengiskhan.

[ivan salis]

only very old-- low radation level lead is the type they are seeking and in bulk amounts. (its needed by electronic equiptment type folks) -- and so it can be worthwhile to find old wrecks that in the past were thought of as "worthless" due to having a good amount of old lead as cargo or ballast . more than silver and gold has value to the right folks.-- its all in the knowing what folks want and need and how to profiet by filling that need. -- bet if you found a vessel loaded with old lead --permits for salvage would be so easy to get as your "powerful" industrial freinds would pave the way for you to get it for them.--- --- Ivan

[tridentresearch]

Chengiskhan;
You are very correct in your market statements regarding this metal. As you may have read in my PM to you, in the past I have conducted detailed studies and analysis of this matter for both field operators and end-users, the largest studies of which were about ten years ago or so.

Here are the bottom lines: The LAL is still in demand, although not at the highes it once enjoyed... but still whorthwhile if one is dealing in bulk. And LAL is NOT just available from vessels pre-dating say 1790 due to alpha decay. Naturally occurring low alpha lead is also available from more recent wrecks due to the type of metal that was mined from specific mines of surface-bearing lead deposits. This has nothing to do with WWII. But the story of the rarity of LAL has everything to do with its sudden unavailability following the Chernobyl incident.... the old lead rooftops in Europe that the suppliers had been purchasing were suddenly not available for use as LAL due to the Chernobyl fallout throughout Europe, and since then the only reliable source for LAL of .005 or better has been from shipwreck cargoes.

Chengiskhan... you really should contact me per the PM. There is, of course, much more to all of this.
TR