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View Poll Results: has anyone hearign of manila galleons that sunk off catalina island

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Thread: Manila galleons

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  1. #16

    May 2005
    517
    12 times

    Re: Manila galleons

    The following link has some is worth a read some very interesting information,

    http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/spotlight/Galleon.pdf

  2. #17

    May 2005
    517
    12 times

    Re: Manila galleons

    The Wreck of the San Agustin

    By Land ~ Sea Discovery Group Staff


    Sir Francis Drake
    Manila was discovered in 1571 by the Spanish explorer Magellan during his famous trip around the world and the city was developed as a colonial outpost for the Spaniards.

    The Manila galleons, as they came to be known, would sail from Acapulco, Mexico usually in December and would take roughly 8-10 weeks to arrive using the trade winds. Officially the commercial traders were allowed to send two ships per year of 300 tons each carrying no more then 200,000 pesos of silver between them. The traders wanted very much so to do more business with the Manila sea port because they could profit by six times their investments. The silver was traded for Oriental silks, clothing, porcelain, and other valuable things not so readily available in Europe where they commanded high prices. The porcelain was as valuable as gold. The Spanish government tried to restrict the trade because they wanted the silver pesos in Spain, but as in most cases where peoples are restricted, the merchants simply found ways to bribe ship captains and port officials to load on more silver. Most ships actually carried two million pesos! The captains alone could receive as much as 40,000 pesos in goods and gifts for his part in the adventure. By the end of the century 3-5 million pesos a year were being funneled from the mines in South America, to Acapulco, and finally on to Manila to be traded.

    In the late 1400's the Pope had decreed that the Spanish had the jurisdiction over the Pacific Ocean and until Sir Francis Drake came into the picture in 1578 the Spanish had a free run of the sea. Drake an English captain ravaged the ships he encountered on the Pacific coast. King Philip II of Spain decided that he needed the coasts of Alta California charted so suitable harbors could be found and the Manila galleons would have a safe haven from privateers and stormy seas.

    King Philip II chose as the man for the task, the diligent and determined Sebastion Cermeno. Cermeno sailed his own ship the San Pedro to Manila. It was a harrowing trip and Cermeno, a skilled navigator and excellent leader, determined the San Pedro would not be up to the challenge of crossing the Pacific Ocean. He proceeded to make arrangements for leasing another ship called the San Agustin and securing the finest crew he could assemble to chart the new lands of upper California. He was a very determined man that wanted nothing to go wrong.

    The San Agustin left Acapulco on July 5, 1595 for Acapulco. She was laden with a cargo of silks, porcelain, and gold. The ship sailed in a northeast direction until like others before they reached the latitude of 35 degrees north and the westerly winds carried them towards Acapulco. The ship arrived in the new world battered and leaky from the stormy voyage. The ship loaded with 150 tons of treasure rode low in the water and the men were forced to spend two out of three watches manning the ships' pumps. The crew was very concerned about the condition of the ship and petitioned the captain to sail on to Acapulco instead of taking the time to chart the coastline.
    The ship arrived at the coast near Cape Mendocino and sailed south until they spotted a high ridge jutting way out into the ocean far beyond the general line of the coast. As they sailed around the ridge they entered a protected bay that had a river flowing into it with plenty of fresh water to take on. This bay is known now as Drakes Bay and little did the Spaniards know that some years earlier Drake was afforded shelter in the same bay.



    A wrecked ship
    Cermeno against the wishes of his almost mutinous crew anchored off the entrance of the estero from which the fresh water flowed. The crew assembled a launch they brought with them from Manila called a vicoro, basically a dugout log with planks on the side. They set up a camp on the beach and the San Agustin rode easy at anchor in the bay protected from northwesterly winds. The men explored the esteros and camped at the beach for nearly three weeks. During this time they had encounters with very friendly Indians called Coastal Miwok. They traded and sampled the native foods.

    In November a gale came from the southeast and ripped the San Agustin from its moorings. The harbor did not afford protection from the southerly winds. On the beach the already dismayed crewmen watched with disbelief as the ships hull hit the sandy bottom in the shallow water and wallowed helplessly. The ship was then pounded by great breakers into pieces. Two men drowned and the rest of the men were left on the beach, in a foreign country, with only the clothes on their backs. Cermeno and his crew managed to salvage some supplies and a couple bales of silk that was left stacked on the beach to be picked up at a later date, which never occurred.

    Dedicated Cermeno was left with but three choices now. 1. Settle in and take up living with the Miwok until another ship happened by. 2. Walk down the 1500 miles of coast to the nearest Spanish outpost. 3. Gather up his men and using the launch sail to Acapulco. Perhaps Cermenos dedication and perseverance to his king's commission saved all of his crew, for he decided to forever abandon the San Agustin and its treasure and head for Acapulco in the launch. 76 men and a dog crammed in the vicoro and headed south. The men gathered up acorns, seeds, and fruits to eat on the journey as well as a few silks to trade with along the way. As he left the bay Cemeno entered in his log the name of the coastal indentations Point Reyes and Point San Pedro. In the coming days of fog and merely taking on the tasks of surviving the crew completely missed the greatest natural harbor in the world, San Francisco Bay.

    Cermeno and his men who still were angry with him, arrived in Mexico in January of 1596. Not a man was lost on the arduous journey.

    In 1941 and in 1952 archeologists from the University of California uncovered Indian graves that contained iron rods and over 50 spikes characteristic of Spanish galleons of the period. They also discovered 125 porcelain pottery shards from the orient. One can almost picture the Miwok sleeping on fine silks and eating acorns out of fine china.

    The San Agustin had been anchored in seven fathoms of water when it broke away and headed for the beach. It's been said the San Agustin carried $500,000 in treasure aboard from the silks and gold, to the blue Chinese porcelain of the Wan Li and Chai Ching varieties. In all the abandoned treasure not recovered was over 130 tons. All the heavy cargo and cannon have sunk deep to the bottom. Recently at an auction house in Amsterdam similar china was sold in over 1000 multiple lots for over 7 million dollars.

    The Point Reyes Peninsula is a natural hazard to ships and since the San Agustin, one of its first wrecks; there have been over 50 ships that have piled up on the beaches in this vicinity.
    If you feel inspired to go in search of the San Agustin or any shipwreck might I suggest a good reading called Complete Wreck Diving, by Henry Keatts and Brian Skerry. The book will take you from research to cleaning your finds.
    Be sure to also check federal and state laws regarding shipwreck diving or artifact recovery in the area you're searching


  3. #18

    Sep 2005
    18

    Re: Manila galleons

    thanks for the reply. I am argeting the Sabta Marta which had 200 tons of treasure when it went down. Do you think it is worth looking for. Documents said it sank near the shore of catalina island. But catalina is pretty deep and I couldn't dive the wreck.

  4. #19
    Charter Member
    us
    An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

    Oct 2004
    N. San Diego area (Pic of my two best 'finds'; son and grandson)
    Minelab Explorer
    20,838
    15215 times
    Shipwrecks
    Honorable Mentions (2)

    Re: Manila galleons

    Justintaylor:
    Have you thought about what you'd do if you found her? Have you contacted the State Land's Commission, the California Coastal Commission, the people in charge of the Manine Sactuary that may surround the island or the myriad of other authorities that, no doubt, will have a keen interest in what you (and they) do after the discovery?
    Don.....
    Chisos likes this.

  5. #20
    Charter Member
    us
    An unidentified coin is a piece of metal. An identified coin is a piece of history.

    Oct 2004
    N. San Diego area (Pic of my two best 'finds'; son and grandson)
    Minelab Explorer
    20,838
    15215 times
    Shipwrecks
    Honorable Mentions (2)

    Re: Manila galleons

    Justintaylor:

    Tell me I'm wrong, but it sounds like you wish to do an illegal activity. If so, I'm not the person to ask for information. If you're still serious about your intentions, I hope you first contact the USCG and ask about their regular patrols in that area with their boats, cutters and aircraft; then inquire about the fines and possible jail time that can be 'awarded' for stealing galleon artifacts from those waters.
    Don.....

  6. #21
    Charter Member
    us
    Pirate of the Ays

    May 2004
    Satellite Beach
    Minelab Excal 1000
    1,721
    145 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Manila galleons

    Justin, Your last post has been DELETED. Don is absolutely correct with his assessment. Now that you have publicly stated that you are willing to conduct an illegal activity, which makes any one of us who continues to provide you with information an accessory.
    Because you are new to this forum, I want you to consider this a shot across the bow. As moderator of this forum, I must caution you that I will delete any further post of that nature, and if necessary ban you from the forum.

    Enough said.

    Q

  7. #22

    Sep 2005
    18

    Re: Manila galleons

    If a shipwreck book has a reported position of a shipwreck does it mean some one aleady salvaged it? Or does it mean they thinnk it might be the wreck.

  8. #23

    Mar 2005
    Leominster MA
    30

    Re: Manila galleons

    I thought you guys might enjoy the trade routes map at this link!

    http://ns.gov.gu/spain.html

  9. #24

    Sep 2005
    18

    Re: Manila galleons

    old trader can you give me information n the manial galloens santa marta, san sebastian, and the nuestra senora de ayuda which all sunk off catalina island withvery valuable cargo aboard thanks

  10. #25

    Mar 2005
    Leominster MA
    30

    Re: Manila galleons

    Justin

    I really can't I just found the history interesting and did a google search coming up with the trade routes map link I posted! Good luck in your quest!

  11. #26
    pn
    Aug 2012
    Philippines
    11
    Shipwrecks
    Cablava in 2005, at the head of this thread, gives a good summary of Manila galleons lost throughout the Pacific. Just to add that the other Manila Galleon lost in the Philippines in 1639 was named [B]San Raimundo, a 300 ton Almiranta which left Acapulco on 30 March 1639 and was lost at Nueva Sergovia, Cagayan, 5 August 1639.

    Reference Tom Bennett's ebook SHIPWRECK OF THE PHILIPPINES see website Shipwrecks of the Philippines

  12. #27
    us
    TEA...taxed enough already

    Oct 2005
    San Diego California
    Bounty Hunter
    365
    127 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    What was the name of the T-netter that was diving a wreck(s) off the beach in N. CA. He was also managing a piece of property which was yielding gold nuggets in quartz. He left T-net a few years ago, but had some great posts.

  13. #28
    us
    Aug 2008
    534
    99 times
    I heard a story from a retired navy guy about how the global explorer sucked up most of a wreck in the channel islands that somebody else was trying to get a permit for. This was back in the 70's I think. I heard the story in 1983 while on a camping trip.

    They are currently not collecting anything at Point Reyes, though they still let me look for pottery which I am grateful for.

    My family has a lot of history connected to George Anson taking the Cavogonda, so Manilla galleons are my hobby and I have a lot of knowledge about them. I think I have helped place a few of them in history and broadened people's understanding of Spanish Pacific trade.

  14. #29
    us
    Aug 2008
    534
    99 times
    Justintaylor has a good thought there, seven years ago. Chances are, most of the ones that were pinpointed well were found unless they sank deep or in hard currents. There were a couple that stated things like, "lost in open sea," but when you read some other people's correspondence, they get pretty well narrowed down and they talk about how it was in a certain channel, or thirty leagues out from such a point.

    You would probably have to go through every book similar to what Robert Marx wrote to see what ones had been pinpointed and worked over, and I know he worked on a few they found. Then you could tally them up. Don't think anyone has approached it quite like this yet.

    One of the things they said about the Channel Island wrecks were that some seemed to be in very active surf and tide zones near small, rocky islands.

    The San Pedro has a clue that seems to indicate it wrecked in the Channel Islands.
    Last edited by cuzcosquirrel; Sep 19, 2012 at 09:08 PM.

  15. #30
    th
    Nov 2010
    Thailand/Europe/California
    Excalibur 2 1000
    1,151
    239 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    This is an old thread, but very interesting reading. Guess Justin faded away, or maybe doing some time!

 

 
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