Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

[cptbil]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

1320:
Remember, the air is compressed at any depth !
As it rises, it expands!
This is what creates your lift &/or vacuum!
If you want to test this out!
Go to the bottom of a swimming pool/place fill a balloon with air from your lungs,
After first, taking a breath from your diving device!
Then allow the balloon to rise!
It will burst!?
So! Will your lungs,?(Just like the Balloon)? ?Should you EVER attempt to hold your breath? ?:- and head for the surface!
When ascending
IS! ONE CASE when you? Always, KEEP your Mouth OPEN!
(Regardless of what your spouse or girlfriend says!)
Down in Morrison Spring, in Florida,? I ran completely out , Yes! My reserve sounded OFF!? :P , of air at 97 feet!
I made a slow ascent, keeping my mouth open all of the way!
I made it all the way up to the top, with no problem!

 

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[Charles,Oak Island]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Boyle's Law

http://aquaholic.com/gasses/boyle1.htm

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Does anyone make and sell airlift pumps? How about a link or photo of one? I grab the basic concept but how do you "inject" the air into the pipe? I'm thinking that there would be a separate piece of pipe that would come off of the main peice...correct? Any recommendations on how much pump or how much pressure. How do you seal/connect the pipe to make sure the injected air goes down? I'm probably making this alot harder than it really is....sounds real basic....just what I need.

 

[Dinkydick]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

To all you guys interested in Airlifts.

I am posting four pic's of the last one I built. It was a 2-inch about 22-feet long. I didn't glue the pipes together as it is really not required but, you must hold the pieces together or the whole thing will explode. The best pie to use is the SDR thinwall type. I know my pictures show SCH40 but it was all I had on hand at the time. Regular fittings will work on the SDR pipe. They are the same OD as the SCH40.
I use electrical sweeping elbows on the top of the lift to direct the flow where I want it. When making an airlift only make it as long as you think you will need and try to keep the top outlet as close to the waters surface as possible. Lifting water out of water takes alot of power. The effeciency of the airlift is lowered the farther you extend the outlet above the water. Do not use right angle fittings as they effect the lift's effency also. Thegalvanized pipe fittings are 3/8-inch water pipe. I use metal pipe at the air inlet point for strength. Looking inside the PVC pipe you will see that the metal pipe doesn't extent too far inside causing a restriction. Any reduction of the inside of the PVC pipe will cause rocks and debris to collect at that location. You will have to shut the lift off to clean it out all the time. The location of the air inlet pipe is not critical but it should be somewhere close to 1-foot from the open inlet. The one in the pic's is closer because I would not be able to reach inside to remove the obstruction if it were located 1-foot from the bottom. Note: You do not want it close to the bottom as the air will come out the bottom if the lift is somewhat tilted when being used. I used an old 3/8-inch ID divers air hose for the air line.You would want to use 3/4-inch pipe fittings on lifts up to 6-inch and 1-inch for 8-inch. A 6-inch is about all I think you guys would be using. When the airlift is started up it is best to have it as vertical as possible or you are going for a ride to the surface. Divers weights are attached to the botton of the lift to assist in keeping the lift vertical. Here are the pics:

Let me know HH Dinkydick

The metal pipe is just screwed into the PVC pipe. On larger lifts an electrical conduit nut is put on the metal pipe.

 

[Dinkydick]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Sorry the pics didn't load so I am trying again

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Sweet!? Just what I've been looking for.? Thanks Dinky.? For sale?

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

1320, Have you given any thought to using a large magnet on a line to recover these coins from the well?

Q

 

[GunFarce]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

You don't even need a 'large' magnet any more.. I recently bought a package of 6 'super magnets' they are about 5/16" diameter, and about 1/8" thick. And can these suckers ever hold!!! If there stuck to a flat surface, you have to get a fingernail under the edge to pry one off.. I was amazed.. I'm going to put the 6 in a cluster, embedded into a piece of plastic with a tang on the top to tie a line to.. The six together will lift over five pounds minimum...Now I just got to find a water fountain where no ones watching .. (just kidding) Ain't science grand!!

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

The coins I'm after won't stick to a magnet. I do have a magnet on a rope (150lb pull) for iron and metal relics....think this thing could pull a fridge out of a well! Those rare earth magnets are serious....I heard of a guy who put a hurtin' on a finger when two RE magnets got together with his finger in the middle.......finger sandwich!

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Dinky, how much air pressure or CFM do you use to operate your lift pump?

 

[Dinkydick]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

1320:

As long as the air pressure is high enough to come out of the hose at the intake of the airlift when it is submerged vertically in the water. In diving it is about 0.446psi per foot of water. I usually figure it as 1psi per foot. I use this same fudge factor when I am burning steel underwater.

Regqrding volume, the more the better. I think my little vacuum/air compressor puts out about 17cfm at 45psi. I will try to get you a pic of the vacuum pump as soon as I can find out where it's at.

To answer some future questions, my pics show plastic wire ties around the ends of the pipe and elbow. When the lift was put together I installed additional plastic wire ties between the loops at the pipe junction. This held the pipe pieces together when I ran the lift.

If you were to use an airlift totally underwater you only need to make it ten-feet long. This will work if you are just removing sand. It will lift the sand and put it behind you. These short airlifts are much easier to handle underwater.

I once was contracted by the FBI to recover bomb evidence when a ship was dynamited while tied to the dock. I used a ten foot pipe with a large wire basket tied to the top end of the lift. I made the basket out of 1/4-inch hardware cloth and lined it with window screen. When the basket got too full they would lift it to the surface and dump the contents on a white sheet spreed on the ground. The lFBI lab technicians then sifted the garbage for evidence. Before I started the job the FBI only had a 1/2-inch piece of burnt fuse as evidence. I never knew what was found in my dredgings but the FBI found the criminals and brought them to justice. It took many years but they finally settled the case.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Dinkydick

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Thanks again Dinky for taking the time to answer all the questions and yes I was curious about the plastic tie wraps! I'm gonna make one this weekend....

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Dinky please disregard my question regarding pressure and volume, I reread the entire post and found the answer! I do have a new question however, could I make up for a lack of air volume with a smaller ID PVC lift? I'm trying to create enough lift to pull coins 25 feet. How much weight can I expect an airlift to pull and deposit?

I will be handicapped in my air volume department....I have to hand carry (walk) all my equipment in (about a mile journey thru the woods) so I won't be able to pack in much of a compressor......

Thanks again for taking the time to entertain each of my questions, you've been most helpful to say the least.

 

[cptbil]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Here's a rough estimate!....?
At the surface a one gallon container will float 40 lbs!

 

[Dinkydick]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

1320:

In answer to your question regarding suction, There was a story going around many years ago which stated that an airlift (size doesn't enter into this) that was operated in 33-feet of water with the outlet located on the surface (just out of the water) would suck the flesh off your hand should the open inlet be stopped up with your hand. I really don't know if this is correct but, they really do have alot of suction. No problem bringing up anything that will fit inside the pipe. You are also going to pick up objects which are larger than the pipe ID. Those will just stick to the inlet until you shut off the air supply then they will fall away hopefully. I should mention this here - Airlifts will NOT shut off instantainously. Once the air supply is shut off the airlift will continue to function until all the air inside the pipe has risen to the surface. This may take a few second. Very painful if your hand is stuck to the pipe.

If you want to figure this out math using math - Figure out the square area of the ID of your pipe. (A=Pi R squared) Figure out the water pressure at the depth you are working at (0.446psi per foot). Multiply the square area of the pipe times the water pressure. This will give you the pressure exerted on the inlet end of the lift with or without your hand in there. OUCH.

A few years ago a sunken ship (SS central America) was located in the ocean about 1700-feet down.
A ROV was designed and built by the salvagers to remove the gold which was on the bottom. I seen the pictures of this when I went aboard the search vessel. Really impressive. Problem - Some of the coins were scattered across the bottom of the ocean. How to pick them all up. Solution - Pour liquid resin (which will activate under water) all over the coins. Let the resin setup and then remove the block of resin with coins intact to the surface with the ROV. Very clever. Like said before, money is not magnetic.

Dinkydick

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Dinky, thank you once again for sharing your knowledge. You will be the first to receive a long lost & forgotten relic from the bottom of one of the wells (if any relics exists!). You have saved me over $300 already.

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

My first attempt at building an airlift........tried using a leaf blower for air....HA......it was laying around doing nothing anyway.......not enough volume or pressure or combo of both. Hooked up a compressor with 120 PSI to the bottom two pieces (10 feet) and man did I ever get a shower! Brrrrrrrr. Damn thing works! Thanks Dinky!!

Still trying to come up with a solution to portable air. Working at depths of 25 feet in a big well and needing lots of air to completely "clean" the well out. Any suggestions? Any way to run a vacuum pump/motor off of gasoline or 12V car battery? Is 120 PSI too much? It seemed to be too much with 10 feet of pipe submerged about 5 feet below the surface.

 

[Dinkydick]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

1320

You really made me laugh. Ok now back to business, 120psi was way too much air pressure. When you are doing your dredging 30 to 40 psi would be more than enough. Are you familiar with super chargers for car engine? I know that they are big in size but they do push alot of air. I haven't tried this but you might want to look into the air pumps they use on newer cars for the air polution equipment. I know they pump air but how much and at what pressure. It might be worth looking into. You might also look at air motors and run them as compressors.

The vacuum pump I have could have been run off a 3hp gasoline engine but I used a 5hp as I already had the engine and didn't want to but another. The pump is a rotary vane type. It has 3/4-inch pipe
ports. I have located it but having not use it for many years it looks like h-ll. I wil try to clean it up and get it to work. Right now it is frozen up. Try running a google search for rotary vane pumps and see what you come up with. I would be interested in what you find. I know they use vacuum pumps in laboratories so you may want to check there. The one I have is made from aluminum as it was used in an airplane. As soon as I get this thing somewhat cleaned up I will take some pics.

As far as carrying equipment, have you looked on google for Korean A-Frames. They are quite neat and you would be surprised what you can carry using one.

Ready for more questions

Dinkydick

 

[1320]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Thanks again Dinky....shoulda seen my imitation of "Old Faithful"!!!!!! I found sould aircraft vacuum pumps on the net...nice small package...just what I'm looking for.

 

[Dinkydick]

Re: Shipwreck sand moving tools air/water ??

Where did you locate them?

I might need to replace mine. Won't know until I open it up.

Dinkydick