Robert Marx Article...
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ivan salis
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by getting the spanish govt onboard from the start with a stated % with no cash outlay from them , only possible profiet --marx has set the spanish up with a "free lunch" in exchange for for being able to do his bussiness without legal "problems" lurking in the background -- and by staying out of the three mile limit --the US govt folks can not claim his finds as theirs -- yep hes a "wize old bird"-- buy off the right folks (the spanish via their you get a % of the stuff for free if I find it -- in exchange for your "blessing" and "legal" backing) and by knowing the rules vis vis the territory laws with regards to the us govt.--- a very smart move on his part * the cape area is littered with treasure wrecks from over the years I'm sure
if he pulls it off-- two of biggest problems out there (the US and spanish govts ) are out of his way -then it'll just be finding the goodies and getting them up.
if he pulls it off-- two of biggest problems out there (the US and spanish govts ) are out of his way -then it'll just be finding the goodies and getting them up.
Salvor6
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I think he is hunting for La Magdalena.signumops said:
ivan salis
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even with what limited info I know (which is zip compared to all the info I'm sure marx has seen over the years) theres several wrecks he could be after --- all very profietible
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
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Odyssey should take note ! It just shows to most here, after beating up Spain, that if done honestly and with consent Spain will
cut a deal !
I wish Robert Marx all the best of luck
Ossy
cut a deal !
I wish Robert Marx all the best of luck
Ossy
Salvor6
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Ossy, its not a done deal. Watch for Spain to deny Marx!
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
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If anybody can, Marx is the man ! You should all be happy if he gets the deal, this could change things.Salvor6 said:
I personally think that Spain knows it can't control it's underwater heritage, better cutting a deal than it going on the black
market with no archeology.
And having Spain on your side, you will be able to get better information on the wreck.
Jeff, nothing wrong with dreaming.
Ossy
Qoute from link:
"Now, Marx is searching outside the territorial waters marked by the three-mile limit. Because the United States has not signed the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea, which would extend U.S. jurisdiction farther, he is confident in his claim to whatever he finds."
Well. this part of the article is nonsense. The United States has declared, through Presidential Declarations by Reagan and Clinton, that US Waters extend to 24 nhmfrom the coast. However, the 1902 Treaty between Spain and the USA says that Spanish wrecks in that area still belong to Spain, if they were ships owned by the Kingdom of Spain, or to the present heirs of the original owners if they were privately owned.
I think that it is just possible that Spain might be pulling off a coup by demonstrating that they are prepared to work with treasure hunters who are committed to working within the law. That is kind of ironic when it comes to Marx, but remember that Queen Elizabeth I refuted Sir Richard Granville's licence to search for the North West Passage via the Magellan Strait and Pacific Ocean, for fear that he would attack Spanish settlements and shipping in the Pacific, and gave it instead to Drake. From this you can see that Monarchies sometimes have their own agenda.
I wish that I had thought of approaching Spain with such a bold proposal.
Mariner
"Now, Marx is searching outside the territorial waters marked by the three-mile limit. Because the United States has not signed the United Nations Convention of the Law of the Sea, which would extend U.S. jurisdiction farther, he is confident in his claim to whatever he finds."
Well. this part of the article is nonsense. The United States has declared, through Presidential Declarations by Reagan and Clinton, that US Waters extend to 24 nhmfrom the coast. However, the 1902 Treaty between Spain and the USA says that Spanish wrecks in that area still belong to Spain, if they were ships owned by the Kingdom of Spain, or to the present heirs of the original owners if they were privately owned.
I think that it is just possible that Spain might be pulling off a coup by demonstrating that they are prepared to work with treasure hunters who are committed to working within the law. That is kind of ironic when it comes to Marx, but remember that Queen Elizabeth I refuted Sir Richard Granville's licence to search for the North West Passage via the Magellan Strait and Pacific Ocean, for fear that he would attack Spanish settlements and shipping in the Pacific, and gave it instead to Drake. From this you can see that Monarchies sometimes have their own agenda.
I wish that I had thought of approaching Spain with such a bold proposal.
Mariner
Salvor6
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Mariner, why doesn't Spain work with the treasure hunters that are salvaging Spanish wrecks in Peru, or Equador, or the Bahamas, or Indonesia, or the Philippines, or...... You get my drift?
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
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Salvor 6, I think this is a positive step ! Rome wasn't built in a day ! If it all goes well for Robert Marx, it can only help you.
Ossy
Ossy
You all look very optimistic. As far as I know I don't think Spain Cultural authorities will allow Marx to look for anything. I think Marx has better contacts in the Ministry of Defense than in Culture's Ministry and he can be confused about the "permission" he will obtain. But if all this stuff goes to the "media" the noise about it will be heared in Tokio. Is not that easy to convert a veteran treasure hunter in a modern underwater archaeologist and Marx has a kind of (fair or unfair, I don't know) black legend here is Spain and Portugal. I'm sure somebody told to Marx "go ahead, we wont disturb you" but I think it was a promise that could be impossible to fulfil in some circumstances. Anyway, what makes the difference between Marx and Odyssey to the "spanish eyes"?
ivan salis
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easy theres a big differance --- marx is offering a nice % cut from the start off the top for spain * with no cash outlay ---the wrecks marx are speaking about are not near spain / europe where spain can easily patrol but rather but over by the usa (close to us territorial waters - the 3 mile limit) the 1902 treaty most say gives "control" of the wrecks to spain --by buying off spain by making them in effect a "partner" in the process -- marx is knocking out the 2 major "problems" that face treasure hunters --the US and spanish govts-- once free of "legal" issues of ownership and being "legally" premitted to hunt -- marx can then legally hunt till the cows come home in the cape area --which is loaded with wrecks --- spain at no expense to them gets one of the worlds top notch hunters with a great chance at finding stuff -- marx gets to hunt "unbothered"by the govts for a % of the finds and the us govt / archie types get zippo since they started the whole "juno and gagla" --issue type flap by notifying spain of the federal wreck court claiming of the vessels *(the us govt / state dept "butted" in going out of the way to "tell" spain you better "defend" your vessels in court -) so in effect they "gave" spain control.
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY
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Bravo Ivan, I agree 100% trinidad amigo, Odyssey handled it all wrong!
Spain may be rethinking it's stance on it's ship wrecks, I think it has to ! and trinidad, that's through Spanish eyes.
as Salvor 6 pointed out, there are many Spanish wrecks being recovered all over the world ! better to have some say than
none at all, and then try to fight it through the courts !!
Ossy
trinidad amigo, Odyssey handled it all wrong!Spain may be rethinking it's stance on it's ship wrecks, I think it has to ! and trinidad, that's through Spanish eyes.
as Salvor 6 pointed out, there are many Spanish wrecks being recovered all over the world ! better to have some say than
none at all, and then try to fight it through the courts !!
Ossy
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For much less that I've seen on the web page of Mr. Marx, here in Spain we had a national conmotion. Artifacts sales, world richest wrecks, gold ingots everywhere... Wow! I would have difficulties defending before the spanish public opinion this new option of researching and/or recovering some artifact from an spanish historical shipwreck if I have to compare it to Odyssey. Yes, I see the "economical" difference but I don't see the "ethical" difference. Maybe my english skill is too low to perceive it.
ivan salis
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when treasure aka as "free money" gets involved govts tend to get forgetful of things so long as 3 "basic rules" are met ---
#1 they do not have to "invest" or put up any cash in any way or do much of anything but by scrawl "ok" you can "legally" salvage it with "our" permission on a bit of paper --
#2 they get a very hefty % of whats found - gold . silver or valuible item wize ---
#3 they get to have "thier" guys on the scene watching you like a hawk during "any recovery" phaze --counting every cent that comes up off the ocean floor.
provided you do that "govts" are how should I say it -- often "very flexible" ---when given a "free lunch" with no "real" effort or expenses on their part. --- its basic "greedy" human nature --"sumpin fer nuttin" --gotta love it.
#1 they do not have to "invest" or put up any cash in any way or do much of anything but by scrawl "ok" you can "legally" salvage it with "our" permission on a bit of paper --
#2 they get a very hefty % of whats found - gold . silver or valuible item wize ---
#3 they get to have "thier" guys on the scene watching you like a hawk during "any recovery" phaze --counting every cent that comes up off the ocean floor.
provided you do that "govts" are how should I say it -- often "very flexible" ---when given a "free lunch" with no "real" effort or expenses on their part. --- its basic "greedy" human nature --"sumpin fer nuttin" --gotta love it.
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