Ribaults anchors off St. Johns River

[Bum Luck]

Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

In his book, Funnel of Gold, Mendel Peterson relates that on September 5, 1565, Ribault's French fleet slipped its anchors off the mouth of the St. John's River.

Has anyone found them? It seems like they would make an easy mag target.

 

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[FISHEYE]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

Even if you did find the anchors i doupt you could get them as theres too much big ship traffic in that area,plus it has been dredged many times.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

I would think that the dredging is in a narrow corridor, as is ship traffic.

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[pcolaboy]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

If the mouth of the St. Johns is like most esturaries, the channels and paths of the river can change dramatically over time. In other words, there's even a potential for them to lie under dry land today. Just something to consider.

Pcola

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

If the mouth of the St. Johns is like most esturaries, the channels and paths of the river can change dramatically over time. In other words, there's even a potential for them to lie under dry land today. Just something to consider.

Pcola

I did look at that, and thought that the oldest accurate chart I could find was a US Coast Survey chart from 1853, which showed little change.

The fleet did anchor offshore, which in this area, is quite a ways out.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

remember that ribault's vessels anchors would be small --try instead the 3 "loaded" vessels ( the former trout bought off hawkins --and 2 others) that were burnt by the few surviving frenchmen that fled on one the 4 vessels that were in the harbor when the spanish attacked fort caroline (the french set fire to them to prevent the spanish from using them to chase them and to prevent them from falling into spanish hands as well.) this was written about by the frenchman who due to illness was left behind in command of the fort , while ribault and every "healthy man" he could muster went by ship from fort caroline (against advice & warnings that the weather often had bad storms at that time of year -- by the commander of fort caroline -- ribault more or less ignored the warning of the person who had lived here in florida for a few years -- with the I'm in charge here and will do as I think is best mind set ) so he left to attack st augustine ( uh how did that work out for ya? ribault)---- the commander of fort caroline survived the spanish attack on the fort by fleeing on one of the 4 vessels that ribault had left "behind" since they were owned by the fort commander -- 2 were 15 ton pinnacles -- and 2 were larger vessels --one was the 30 ton vessel "trout" bought off the british trader /raider "hawkins" in exchange for the fort caroline cannons ( since the forts commander was going to "abandon fort caroline" and return home he had no need for the forts cannons , but he did need another vessel to use as a transport vessel (but then as he was getting ready to leave ribault shows up going "we're staying , amd that means you too") later on he wrote about it in his account.

fort caroline was up river a fair bit --so if the vessels were offshore of the fort (which is where they would logically be --they would be anchored in the river)

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

On Sept. 4th, Menendez discovers Ribault's ships.

Sept 5th, he sails past them, which he could hardly do in the St. John's river. The account states that this took place off shore. The French slipped their cables and sailed away.

Sept. 8, Menendez moves south and establishes St. Augustine

10-23 Sept. - Ribault's fleet sets out and destroyed by storms
17 Sept. - Menendez begins march on Fort Caroline
20 Sept. - Spanish capture Fort Caroline

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

the account was is that he was going to hit them --the vessels in the river * but they slipped anchor and went up river -- but as he prepared to give chase "reenforcements" arrived -- being "sandwiched" ships on both sides -- he bailed out and headed to st augustine to set up camp --- ribault wanted to chase after him and hit him quickly before he could set up a strong defens in st augustine , but lendiaarre? (spellings off a bit ) warned him that bad weather often struck at that time of year -- sadly for them ribault paid him no heed.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

Seems to be some confusion here.

I quote from Peterson's book:
"Six days after Ribault's arrival, on September 4th, 1565, Menendez sailed up between the four French ships and the shore of the River of May and challenged them."

Ribault had taken his three small vessels up the river August 28th, but the largest 4 ships remained outside the bar, where they were challenged by Menendez.

So the anchors would be outside the bar, far enough out so that Menendez could have sailed between them and the shore.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

the spanish at first thought there was only 4 french vessels and thus were going to give battle at sea --- when in fact they were caught between the 4 larger french vessels on the "outside" and the smaller french vessels "up river" --- the up river french vessels slip their anchors and came down river --- "pinning" the spanish vessels --between the two french forces --thus the spanish were now in a two way cross fire had they had they started fighting --so they very wizely split the scene and headed to st augustine --ribuilt choose to chase and attack the spanish before they could set up a good defense set up -- the french got to st augustine but the vessels drew too much water to cross the bar and off load at low tide --while awaiting the tide to change --a huge storm or hurricane struck wrecking the french fleet .

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

Menendez' account:

".... I ordered cable to be paid out so as to come along side of her (Captain), but they cut their cables, and hoisted their sails, and all four of them took to flight."

Peterson continues:
"While the French fleet fully manned could have easily defended themselves or even have defeated Menendez, with only a few to serve the sixty one guns aboard the ships, they had no choice but to slip their cables and flee. The Spanish gave chase...."
...
"Ribault, with most of his forces at the fort, wanted to go to the rescue of his ships offshore, but the action was over before he could move."

He makes no mention of ships coming down the river.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

( the spanish leader) won the fight long term --- killing off the french overall ( ever hear the term -- the winners write the history of what occured?) so of course rather than say --hey we were "trapped in a vice" between 2 enemy forces and fled to st augustine where by a stroke of luck we arrived at high tide and the pursuing french vessels arrived at low tide and thus could not cross the bar --thankfully for us ( the french out numbered the spanish) -- however before the tide changed a huge storm / hurricane and wrecked them before they could land and attack us ( and we "mopped" up the survivors killing them) ---- so as the survivor and victor of the battles, he "bravely" writes -- "they fled from us" rather than the other way around -- however -- when one reads the "french account" of what occured one gets a "differing veiwpoint" --after the spanish fled ribiult realized he had a chance to wipe them out * that he out numbered them (why else would they "flee"?) so he was going to hit fast and hard -- ribuilt packed up every fit soldier he could find on his vessel and set sail after the spanish -- the french commander of the fort tried to warn ribuilt of the danger of huge storms that hit at that time of year but was ignored and being ill was left behind with the unfit / unfealthy soldiers and the women and kids at the connonless fort along with 4 smallish vessels owned by the commander of the fort ( he was planning to abandon the fort and had not long before traded to the english raider * hawkins the guns of the fort for a vessel and food and supplies -- but upon ribuilts arriving -- he was told by ribuilt that "abandoning the fort was not going to happen"

as a seaman I know the last place a batch of vessels wants to be is in between two sets of enemy vessels -- french (outside vessels) spanish (inside vessels) french ----esp if when added together they out number you -- since you then have to divide your fire and manpower to fight on two sides of your vessel-- while they can focus all their efforts on one side only ---that my freind is a classical naval no no.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Ribaults anchors off St. John's River

Peterson continues:
"While the French fleet fully manned could have easily defended themselves or even have defeated Menendez, with only a few to serve the sixty one guns aboard the ships, they had no choice but to slip their cables and flee. The Spanish gave chase...."
...
"Ribault, with most of his forces at the fort, wanted to go to the rescue of his ships offshore, but the action was over before he could move."