When Guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns

[White Feather]

If they outlaw detecting will you stop? We joke about being pirates and treasure hunters but the government both state and federal are closing in on us with stupid laws and closing in on our rights one at a time. A little ban here or an encroachment there and we are becoming pirates and outlaws. Fighting one at a time is going to do nothing but get us cornered and stripped of any ability to detect. Be it land or water we are being forced into a corner where we have to do something very soon or lose everything we love about our hobby. Talking does nothing. We need someone who will take the reins and get us organized and moving in the right direction. We need to set up someone who is not afraid to go up against the political machine. We need an organization of sorts to have as a voice for the tens of thousands of us who detect. There are dozens of you who know how to set up something like this. Whom do we give a push?

[Reef Dawg]

I will be the first to throw my hat in the ring. I still believe that there is certain legal issues that have yet to be addressed. Additionally, the group that met last year, although well intended, compromised, and in my humble opinion, lost ground. If there had been such a success, then why have no permits been issued on any new sites of interest in Florida? Further, of those permits set for renewal, why have they not been renewed to date?

If one is going to take the reigns of this, it has to be a person that has no ties to certain private ventures. It would have to be set forth as a piece of litigation that resembles "amicus curiae" and that person must push through questions that have been lingering for way too long now in our State. Whether it's about land based or maritime based hunting, the longer it goes without a Judicial review or decision, the farther away a potential win will be.

The Supreme Court in the Mel Fisher case was crystal clear and set forth instructions to the State of Florida in their decision, yet everyone in Tallahassee has either ignored it, or whittled it away through bureaucratic ramblings.

I believe that one of the most effective remedies for the B.A.R. being stopped for the moment, in their tracks, has been ignored. There are very useful tools in litigation that can set precedence felt Statewide, yet, for what ever the reason, they go unfiled.

[LM]

I was a pretty avid 'gun guy' for a while. Moving to Chicago (with our 'special' laws in that regard) slowed that metabolism down, but I was heavily invested in that whole scene for a long time.

The primary reason their hobby has been largely preserved (up to and including actually reversing a few crappy laws, ala the 1994 AWB) in the face of public sentiment that might otherwise be slightly opposed is that politicians fear the gun owner vote. Clinton attributed their vote to the colossal Republican Renaissance in 1994, any number of state politicians know they have to avoid the issue like a hot potato, lest they find themselves out of work. Those guys fight like absolute tigers. If you tell them that their interests are being threatened, they don't sit on their asses, sniveling and making internet posts, waiting for someone else to make phone calls, write letters, etc. They step up and do it themselves, one at a time, multiplied many, many times over. Politicians know if they pass even one gun law, they will immediately activate a significant bloc of voters to oppose them, campaign dollars start flowing to the opposition; messing with gun owners is poking the sleeping lion.

The opposition trots out the NRA as if they're some magical organization that has become unduly powerful. This isn't true. The reason they're 'feared' by politicians is because they control the political nukes that are the quickly mobilized gun owner vote.

Obviously, treasure hunters are a minuscule fraction of this. We're a small niche that doesn't command the same sort of involvement that the gun issue does. While everyone has an opinion on the gun issue, very few have an opinion on our issue, outside of the fringes on the pro or con side. With that said, shame on us that we've allowed the other side to hijack the entire dialog and stealthily curtail our rights, behind closed doors while no one's watching, even when damn near everyone in the middle would be behind us.

Unlike gun owners who face significant ideological opposition, very, very few are actively 'opposed' to treasure hunting. Democrat, Republican, Libertarian and Greenie alike- we all read Treasure Island. We all had the same dreams of as kids. We all intuitively understand that this history doesn't come up from the bottom via the state. Its brought up by the big dreamers who actually go out and look for it... Save for a tiny handful of minded academics, if we were to take the time to step out and ask anyone who would listen, public sentiment would be firmly in our corner.

So, one has to ask- how in gods name is this happening? Why are we getting our collective asses kicked when John Q Public is on our side? The answer to that question arrives pretty quickly. Because, as best I can tell, we're doing absolutely nothing of substance to define ourselves or the broader issue at large. We're allowing the dialog to float out there in the political ethos, which is fertile ground for bureaucrat-ideologues to operate with political impunity, taking our rights away. After all, that's what bureaucrats do. They regulate, which translates to taking rights away. It's the only way they know to be 'productive'.

Step 1 isn't organizing everyone. It's bringing together the intellectual spearhead of experienced people, decision makers, ideas men, who can best craft our position to ultimately be presented to the public. We need a blanket association, free of individual interests, Type A hystericals, salesmen and people pushing their own, narrow agenda. Dr. Eugene Lyon always struck me as a level sort of guy, qualified to the moon and potentially on our side. Is he still out there kicking?

Someone qualified in the treasure hunting world really needs to step up and do this, invest their time, risk failure and be bull-headed about the whole thing. We have plenty of allies- the entire Metal Detecting world, for one. Until this gets put together, all we do is kvetch and snivel, make internet posts and watch as our rights are eroded away. Period.

[capt dom]

I'm sure Dr. Gene is still kicking... abet with one leg maybe....

You can't expect a guy like him to pick up the orb....

Its hard to expect anyone!!! But... This is america...
some of us still have a balanced measure of the three B's

Which is what it is going to take for what you and I are all talking about.

They say, "a journey of 1,000 miles - begins with a single step....
I still maintain a thrust at Rick Scot can be a beginning....
Think about it folks.... If we can get him to listen I will carry
this orb for a while but.... I really rather help to pass it on.

[Old Mooneye]

White feather said:

Fighting one at a time is going to do nothing but get us cornered and stripped of any ability to detect. Be it land or water we are being forced into a corner where we have to do something very soon or lose everything we love about our hobby. Talking does nothing.
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Confucious say :
War does not Determine who is right, War Determines who is left

[Trembull]

Confucious also said:
It takes many NAILS to builded a Crib -- But one Screw to Fill it

Confucious Say:
Man who springs on interspring this spring has offspring next spring & =

Confucious Say:
Wife who puts Husband in Doghouse -- Soon find him at Cathouse

Confucious Say:
Man with one chopstick goes Hungary

Confucious Say:
Man who Drives like Hell Soon gets there

Confucious Say:
Baseball is Wrong -- Man with four balls, Can not WALK

Confucious Say:
Man who Fishes in other mans Well -- Often catches crabs

Confucious Say:
Crowded Elevators Smells different to a Midget

Confucious Say:
Man who lives in Glasshouse -- Should change clothes in basement

Confucious Say:
Man Who Fights with Wife allday -- Gets no piece at night

Confucious Say:
Man Who Farts in church -- Sits in own PEW

[Salvor6]

Pay a visit to your local State Rep or Senator. They are usually open to listen to their constituents. Have them introduce legislation to order the B.A.R. to issue permits. Or maybe we can organize a group of us to drive to Talahassee to have a meeting with Rick Scott.