Filing seeks sole ownership of treasure

[psdiver]

Filing seeks sole ownership of treasure
BY ADAM LINHARDT Citizen Staff
alinhardt@keysnews.com

If you lost a cache of Colombian gems worth a reported half-billion dollars in shallow waters about 30 miles off Key West, now is the time to claim it.

A salvor who says he found an undisclosed amount of emeralds, amethysts and quartz crystals scattered on the Gulf of Mexico's sandy seafloor in January 2010 has filed court records laying claim to the treasure, meaning if no one comes forward to challenge his ownership, the fortune could become his alone.

Claims must be made in the next few weeks, or retired doctor-cum-treasure salvor Jay Miscovich could claim what has been brought to the surface so far as well as all future lifted stones, said his Key West attorney, David Paul Horan.

"Understand," Horan said, "these have to be legally verifiable claims and you have to swear under oath to that."

News of the mysterious find has been leaking into the public domain recently, in the wake of legal battles waged between Miscovich and his wealthy former investors, as well as the Sept. 30 court claim.

The stones appeared to have originated from the Muzo region of Colombia, in the foothills of the Andes, which reportedly contain the highest-quality emeralds in the world, Horan said. The area has been mined for hundreds of years and the Duke of Devonshire Emerald, one of the world's largest uncut emeralds, came from the Muzo mines in 1831.

More than 30 of the stones have been sent to the Smithsonian Institution National Museum of Natural History in Washington, D.C., according to court documents. Researchers there determined the stones to be from the Muzo region, Horan said. Just how old they are is still being researched.

"We have people looking at that as we speak," Horan said this week. The emeralds have to be analyzed by high-tech equipment that deciphers their molecular makeup, he said. "It's kind of like DNA testing."

Miscovich and other divers have not found remnants of a ship, though they have found a cannonball, Horan said.

Miscovich has hired marine archaeologist R. Duncan Mathewson III, who is formulating a plan on how to remove more emeralds from the sea, Horan alerted U.S. District Court Judge James L. King in his Sept. 30 filing. Mathewson, a Monroe County School Board member, was Mel Fisher's marine archaeologist when the famed treasure salvor found the Nuestra Señora de Atocha.

Miscovich has formed JTR Enterprises LLC, a Delaware company, in his pursuit of the emeralds. He formerly founded Emerald Reef LLC in the same state last year after he brought in his brother, Scott Miscovich, and Dean Barr, a billionaire and former Citigroup hedge fund executive. Neil Ash, a New York accountant, was brought into the fold as well.

Emerald Reef disbanded in the wake of an undisclosed Aug. 19 civil lawsuit settlement between Miscovich and those investors, who claimed Miscovich was defrauding them.

alinhardt@keysnews.com

[old man]

I have a question?


Here is a quote from the link below of the emerald find !


"Claims must be made in the next few weeks, or retired doctor-cum-treasure salvor Jay Miscovich could claim what has been brought to the surface so far as well as all future lifted stones, said his Key West attorney, David Paul Horan."

"Understand," Horan said, "these have to be legally verifiable claims and you have to swear under oath to that."


My question is this: Has anyone ever heard of someone filing an Admiralty Claim and then their Attorney saying that anyone that has a claim on the Emeralds has 30 days to file that Claim ? I thought that when you filed an Admiralty Claim and it was approved by the Court; that you had sole rights to that wreck site. Unless of course Spain or the Marine Sanctuary or some other Government Agency wanted to Challenge your ownership Claim, but I didn't think they were restricted by filing that claim within 30 days. Any of you Attorney's or any one else know the answer


http://keysnews.com/node/35094

[sabre15]

How were emeralds even found? Not metal detecting or maging.

[old man]

How were emeralds even found? Not metal detecting or maging.

Sabre15, Interesting that you should ask that question:

In the Court Case in which the investors from New York sued Dr. Jay for Fraud. Dr. Jay stated in Court papers that the emeralds were found in 7 to 11 feet of water. I was told that he stated that the emeralds were found lying on top of the sand . ( Somehow I find it hard to believe that they were just lying on top the sand, but that is just my opinion.)

I am down here in Key West and have been following this story. Now Dr. Jay, a 300 lb. plus diver, states in the newspaper and thru an attorney, that the emeralds were found in 50 feet of water, 30 miles from Key West out in the Gulf of Mexico. He also claims that the emeralds were found lying on top of the sand and that the only other thing he found was a cannon ball.

Personally, the story changes so much that I don't know what to believe. That is one reason why I asked the question about the Admiralty Claim being filed and the Attorney that filed that claim, stating in the Newspaper that anyone with a claim on the emeralds has to come forward within 30 days and file a claim on them. I was under the impression that if you filed and Admiralty Claim and the Court granted you ownership, that you owned the wreck site, at least until Spain filed a Claim for ownership.

[saltydog1733]

You all know this entire story is a bunch of BS, right?

I didn't see anywhere in the story referenced above where an admiralty arrest was made. I assume because there is no wreck site.....just a an area of gemstones, that a claim was filed on these gemstones. I could be wrong.


But just to make the story of his discovery plausible (someone asked how you find loose emeralds out at sea?), Dr. J also did allegedly manage to find one single cannon ball. So yes, that item could have been found with a magnetometer.


Oldman is right, Dr. J is a 300lb plus "diver" who doesn't dive, a Mel Fisher and RS Ops investor, (which is probably what gave him the idea for this) a retired doctor who tried to make a fortune in real estate and flipping houses until the market went bad.

[old man]

Saltydog, According to someone that worked for Dr. Jay last year. The company never owned a mag. So I would also like to know where they bought the emeralds or how they found theo. Some things seem a little odd about this whole thing. But who knows. Maybe Miss Cleo or someone with magic wands lo located the site for them ?

[aquanut]

I could be wrong, but I once heard that the specific gravity of emeralds is the same as sand. This being the case, I doubt if they were simply lying around on the surface.
Aquanut

[Panfilo]

Not so Aquanut, the specific gravity of emeralds is close to 2.70- 2.78 and the specific gravity of sand, which varies considerably, is between 1.40 and 2.0
Panfilo

[cuzcosquirrel]

Feels like the other shoe is beginning to drop.

[aquanut]

Thanks Panfilo, I hate going around thinkin' I know something when I don't!
Aquanut

[old man]

Not so Aquanut, the specific gravity of emeralds is close to 2.70- 2.78 and the specific gravity of sand, which varies considerably, is between 1.40 and 2.0
Panfilo

Panfilo, Doesn't that mean that since emeralds have a higher specific gravity that they would therefore be found under the sand and not on top of it

I also find it incredible that Dr. Jay has found MORE emeralds lying on top of the sand in a few days, then Mel Fisher found in over 25 years out at the Atocha site and the emeralds at the Atocha site were all found under the sand and were found with an air lift.

I guess Dr. Jay and Jay Jr. have a set of magic wands to have found the emeralds. Maybe they'll lend it to some of us.

[old man]

You all know this entire story is a bunch of BS, right?

I didn't see anywhere in the story referenced above where an admiralty arrest was made. I assume because there is no wreck site.....just a an area of gemstones, that a claim was filed on these gemstones. I could be wrong.


But just to make the story of his discovery plausible (someone asked how you find loose emeralds out at sea?), Dr. J also did allegedly manage to find one single cannon ball. So yes, that item could have been found with a magnetometer.


Oldman is right, Dr. J is a 300lb plus "diver" who doesn't dive, a Mel Fisher and RS Ops investor, (which is probably what gave him the idea for this) a retired doctor who tried to make a fortune in real estate and flipping houses until the market went bad.

Saltydog1733, I did some DD and an Admiralty Claim was filed on the Emeralds. I wonder if Spain is going to get involved in this one too ?
See Admiralty Claim below. I found it on Pacer.

4:11-cv-10074-JLK JTR Enterprises, LLC v. Columbian Emeralds
James Lawrence King, presiding
Date filed: 09/06/2011
Date of last filing: 10/12/2011

Case Summary

Office: Key West Filed: 09/06/2011
Jury Demand: None Demand:
Nature of Suit: 890 Cause: 28:1333 Admiralty
Jurisdiction: Federal Question Disposition:
County: Monroe Terminated:
Origin: 1 Reopened:
Lead Case: None
Related Case: None Other Court Case: None
Defendant Custody Status:
Flag: CMM

Plaintiff: JTR Enterprises, LLC represented by David Paul Horan
Phone: 305-294-4585
Fax: 294-7822
Email: dph@horan-wallace.com
Defendant: Columbian Emeralds

[Salvor6]

Old Man I can't see how Spain could lay claim to this since there is no shipwreck. But i wouldn't put it past them since Spain is so desperate for money.

[old man]

Old Man I can't see how Spain could lay claim to this since there is no shipwreck. But i wouldn't put it past them since Spain is so desperate for money.

Actually Pete, there is evidence of a shipwreck. I'll post the DD tomorrow. I need to do that from a computer. I am typing this from my phone.

[stevemc]

The type of sand around that area is Aragonite, there are several types and most likely it is Oolitic aragonite, which is found from about Big pine Key West to past the Marquesas Keys, which this falls into. I am familiar with all the types of aragonite, and I feel that this is what it is. They all weigh about the same. It is competley Calcium Carbonite, Emeralds are like Quartz and are much heavier/denser. I have dove that area for years, and I know the bottom types well. They would sink like lead into this sand.
This story is a bunch of BS.

[Escudoman]

My father worked with and has met all the parties involved. The story told to him when he hired on is totally changed from it's original version. So that means they lied to him. He also observed Mr. Miskovic in such bad health that he couldn't walk 5 steps without huffing and puffing and other employees were worried about his health because of being so heavy. At business meeting he always stuffed himself with burgers and such. Yes we could see him making repeated dives to recover the booty. lol This story reeks of scam and deception. Now my dad is dealing with a ship that was plundered and neglected. The idiot in charge didn't even have the proper zincs on it or enough of them so electrolisis has cost the owner of the ship thousands to repair, magnesium is for use in fresh water not salt with an aluminum ship. But how would Jay junior know this being such a novice. and besides ramming another ship without a captains liscence, and doing thousands of dollars of damage to both ships. Yep! These are the real treasure getters of our day? Yes these guys are real brainiacs. As Horan has told others it is the blind leading the blind. A quote from him. As far as a canon ball being used to establish a wreck. There were plenty of those that they picked up with other artifacts from the Womans Key Kirby site. But I guess it would be hard to tell the difference between a 1800's ball and a ball from a Spanish wreck site or what ever. As far as Spain's involvement. I doubt that will ever happen as they do not get involved in scams. Or treasure hunters who parade prostitutes around on the supposed salvage vessel bragging it belongs to him when it fact it was owned by Mr Barr, one of the prime investors. There are a multitude of other things that could be mentioned, but why bother. BS is BS. This is as about as convoluted as a 20 inch plate of angel hair pasta fresh out of the pot. Try to unwind that.
Just a kid who hears things.

[old man]

Old Man I can't see how Spain could lay claim to this since there is no shipwreck. But i wouldn't put it past them since Spain is so desperate for money.

Pete, Read the below post, then check all of that posters, posts ( there aren't many ). This person is involved in the emerald thing. I'll call this person Jay Jr. ( Not his real name. He lives in Key West ) While his posts don't prove this wreck in the gulf is the same wreck, that is the conclusion that I believe they used as another story for the Admiralty Site. Personally, I believe as Steve MC does. I find it very difficult to believe that Dr Jay, found hundreds of pounds of Emeralds and Amethysts just lying on top of sand after hundreds of years. ( My Opinion )


keywesttdiver


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Gulf of Mexico shipwreck
Posted Jun 04, 2011, 12:51:31 PM

Quote
Hello all!
Iam a new member here. Have been a diver over 30 years. I have located a very old wreck in the gulf. Wooden timbers and alot of very old looking artifacts! It is about 20 miles off shore. Is this international waters? Can i bring-up any artifacts ? Any help/answers are appreciated !!!

[Teredo Navalis]

Panfilo, Aquanut and Stevemc,
I am a new member but have read the board often. I must comment you are all incorrect on your comments concerning the specific gravity of sand and aragonite emeralds and quartz. Aragonite which does comprise the majority of the sand in the region has a specific gravity of 2.93. (http://webmineral.com/data/Aragonite.shtml). Emeralds, generally have a specific gravity that ranges from 2.63-2.91. The reason a range exists is due to the standard emerald being naturally high in inclusions. These inclusions are often trapped gases, therefor making the gem light.
The facts are clear from a scientific and geologic perspective that Emeralds would sit on sand and not sink. Another reference was a PhD paper by a friend of my colleague. It is very informative and extensively supports the reattach on the specific gravity of different sand type in Florida when analyzing options for beach restoration.
http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00091058/00001/17j Cheers

[stevemc]

Teredo, you have shown a crystal of aragonite, not aragonite sand, which is fairly light, less dense than a crystal. Basicly a photo and assay of Calcite. If you heat aragonite, it is now calcite. The outside crystal shape is different, not much else. That has nothing to do with aragonite sand which is a biologicaly made sand from Foraminifera and other tiny sea creatures. It is constantly replaced. Halimeda sand is made by a calcerous algae named Halimeda. Oolitic aragonite is not as light as halimeda aragonite which is the lightest marine sand there is. It has more surface area to weight ratio than any other marine substrate. You can sink your whole arm into that, it is very light. That is found in that area, but more so East of Big Pine Key, up past Marathon and into Key largo. The area with solid Oolitic aragonite is from below Big Pine to almost Key West. From Key West and out it is a mix of the 2 types. Oolitic aragonite is very light also, not very dense. Not as light as Halimeda aragonite, but a lot lighter than quartz sand, which is solid quartz crystals, similar to your refence to the aragonite crystal, except aragonit sand is not a crystal, it is way less dense and very light in SG.. Much lighter. Believe me, emeralds or anything else would sink very fast in oolitic aragonite. Especially the mix that the area has of the 2 types of aragonite. You can sink your hand right into it easily. I have worked in it and not much stays on top, everything is at rock bottom. It is like dropping your cell phone into a big bag of styrofoam peanuts, it would go right to the bottom. I dont believe for a minute that emeralds would float on top of it. Show me! And the paper your friend wrote, has nothing on the SG of either sand. Show me how much Halimeda aragonite and Oolitic aragonite weigh. Not calcite and aragonite crystals (same thing-both pure Calcium Carbonate) found in a cave. That is like saying obsidian and pumice weigh the same and have the same SG. They are the same but they vary greatly in SG and actual weight. If you had some of the sand in the area, in an aquarium, and threw in some emeralds, they would sink right into it, just like the ones found by Treasure Inc and all their subs, by air lifting them up in the substrate, not by finding them floating on the surface of the sand.

[stevemc]

I have a feeling this guy teredo, is most likely a newbie who has no idea who he is talking to, and did a little internet searching, and found some facts, and thought he would blow us out of the water with them. Or he is the lawyer for the Dr, or some kind of a relation to the lawyer, and thought he would shut us up. Either way he is not impressing me with his way off internet finds. He better do some deep searching. Having spent a half a century in that area, and know all about the sand types that whole time, and what happens to artifacts in the sand that whole time, I feel he is just as full of BS as the story about the emeralds.