SB 868...The official summary of what changes in the Florida Statues:

[hobbit]

"Currently, Florida law prohibits persons from conducting archaeological field investigations on, or removing or attempting to remove, or deface, destroy, or otherwise alter any archaeological site or specimen located upon any land owned or controlled by the state or within the boundaries of a designated state archaeological landmark or landmark zone, except under the authority of a permit granted by the Division of Historical Resources (Division). Persons engaging in these activities can face criminal penalties, administrative fines, and the forfeiture of any collected materials.
CS/SB 868 expands the area where unauthorized archaeological activity is prohibited to include state sovereignty submerged land and land owned by political subdivisions, and authorizes the Division to issue permits for archaeological research at these locations.
This bill substantially amends ss. 267.12 and 267.13 of the Florida Statutes."

Read the second paragragh carefully if you think this bill will not affect metal detecting in Florida. Please note that "state sovereignty submerged land", together with, "land owned by political subdivisions" means EVERY BEACH IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA . Wet sand AND dry sand. The above quote was taken directly from the PDF file on the Senate's website. There are those who are still not taking this seriously. It is unbelieveable.

 

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[ivan salis]

if enacted this bill means death to metal detecting and tresure hunting in general on all "public" owned lands in florida -- its says state controlled lands (thus all state parks or state controlled lands ) and it adds all 'political subdivisons' (read all florida county and city "publically" owned parks and controlled lands ) so basically it means all publicly owned lands in florida peroid -- this would include a lot of state park beach areas of course and state controlled submurged "public" land (read public beaches)-- it enpowers the state to just come in and declare a "public" spot a historic off limits area without any consultion with the local county or city govts and what the impact of doing this would have on them.

folks this law its a plain out right "power grab" law --and brothers and sisters -- its just bad ,bad, bad -- fight this now before its too late --call your state rep -- its bill H 591 in the florida house and call your state senator --its bill S 868 with them

 

[aquanut]

Hobbitt,
I you read the bill, you don't get the opportunity to see a judge. No fair trial here!

 

[Got Treasure ?]

Does this mean the sewers too were the rats came from in the first place?

 

[Bum Luck]

Does Florida have too much money that it can have all these archies?

 

[Dimeman]

Any land in the state including any that is within any boundries of historic archaeoligical sites....is off limits to detecting.....just like Texas.

 

[digsallday]

Seems to mee that it is geared toward archaeological digs on archaeological sites and archaeological activity in such areas. It seems like it would affect us metal detecting folks but I would think [and this is just me] that if they didn't want folks detecting it would mention the words ''metal detectors'' and Metal detecting'' which ''WE'' know isn't the same as archaeological anything. There are similar codes in many cities and states that protect historical sites etc. I would copy that and keep it with me to show anyone if approached [assuming you are not on a historical site or archaeological site] that it does not pertain to you. digsallday

 

[Doc Arey]

Prime example of the Slippery Slope!!!!

 

[scaupus]

i don't get it. Other outdoor sports aficionados have organized to protect and promote their interests particularly insofar as government laws and regs and enforcement affect them (and md'ing certainly fits the definition of an outdoor sport). Fishermen, hunters, off-roaders...there are thousands of md'ers in the state of fl, and in every state. We should have a national group to represent us with state and local chapters. If there is one, it must be hiding someplace...anyone interested in starting one?

 

[FISHEYE]

They will have no way to control or enforce this as most cops dont even know the law themselves.Let alone new laws.If you are on a public beach detecting,you are looking for modern items.(like that new watch your wife gave you for your b-day that you lost a few days ago)Have someone with you so when you find something 50 yrs or older,they can walk off with it.Never keep anything you found on you.Might be a good time to buy some of those MD shoes.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

scaupus, yes there is a lobbying organization for our hobby: the FMDAC. But unfortunately, their hands are tied from doing too much. Because ......... unlike the NRA or other such lobbying organizations, there simply isn't enough hobbyists doing this particular hobby, to generate enough money/funds to fund them. We are in a niche hobby, where hard-core hobbyists are simply not very numerous, when you compare it to a hobby like guns. There are gun-buffs & hunters EVERYWHERE, thus driving their well-funded machine. But I bet if you made a $10 million donation to the FMDAC (we all know your loaded with $$), then I bet they could make significant headway, hire the top-notch lobbyists, and so forth

 

[Tom_in_CA]

digsallday: I figured the same thing as you're doing: There are probably ALREADY rules in most EVERY city, everywhere in the USA, that if you thought long enough and hard enough, you could find yourself reasons to forbid yourself from detecting everywhere. You know, the cultural heritage stuff seen in every state, county, and city, or the dreaded "defacing" or "alteration" clauses that EVERY city and beach has (to stop you from backing up your pickup and helping yourself to all the park turf or beach sand, etc...). So I too thought it is just similar stuff, that *in reality* is only to protect the obvious historic monuments (which none of us would argue with). But these guys in FL are adamant that this will be religiously applied, and that FL is "different" than the prevailing laxness and psychology of all other 50 states.

 

[hobbit]

There is no law in Florida that currently restricts what you can recover between the high water mark and the low water mark on Florida beaches. It is truly, "finder's keeper's".
I don't think anyone believes the new law will be applied "religiously". If it passes, though, it will apply to SOMEONE in the future. Someone will have to forfeit a treasure because the State gets wind of it. I don't believe ANYONE should have to fear being honest about what they find on the beaches of Florida. I don't think we should have to hide. I don't think we should have to worry. I think we should be free.
If you go to Sebastian Inlet State Park after the next big storm, and a park ranger asks, "have any luck?"...will you tell him the truth? I would like to tell him the truth. And I would like the truth to be: "yes".
As far as law enforcement "psychology" being different in Florida than in "all other 50 states", perhaps it is not paranoia on our parts. Is there another state with a treasure fleet sunk a stone's throw off its coast?

 

[Bum Luck]

digsallday: I figured the same thing as you're doing: There are probably ALREADY rules in most EVERY city, everywhere in the USA, that if you thought long enough and hard enough, you could find yourself reasons to forbid yourself from detecting everywhere. You know, the cultural heritage stuff seen in every state, county, and city, or the dreaded "defacing" or "alteration" clauses that EVERY city and beach has (to stop you from backing up your pickup and helping yourself to all the park turf or beach sand, etc...). So I too thought it is just similar stuff, that *in reality* is only to protect the obvious historic monuments (which none of us would argue with). But these guys in FL are adamant that this will be religiously applied, and that FL is "different" than the prevailing laxness and psychology of all other 50 states.

Tom, they know their own state.

I don't know why you're soft-pedaling this threat to our hobby. A law is a law, and it can (and I think will) be enforced. If you are breaking a law, you end up in a revenue-generating court, where the onus is on you to prove why the jurisdiction shouldn't get your fine money.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Bum luck, as you might have read on the other thread, I stated there that I read the law more in detail, as the thread progressed along, and did come away with the realization that it could actually apply all public lands, and for stuff as silly as 1960 pennies. So I .... uh .... "repented" of my previous mis-interpretation (where I had a knee-jerk reaction, seeing certain key words, that it only applied to archaeological sites). So in that sense, I am not soft-peddling, and actually back-peddling my earlier minimizations.

No, this is not a good thing, you right. And no, just because their might be a way to circumvent problems for yourself (by saying you're looking for your car keys, or that all your coins are new, and so forth), isn't the ideal solution. The better solution would be that this junk never gets passed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

hobbit, you say:

"There is no law in Florida that currently restricts .... you ....It is truly, "finder's keeper's".

I disagree with that. This may be true in actual practice, of what's simply happened all these decades. But no, I bet you that if I looked hard enough, there would have already been things that you've run afoul of. For example: FL has lost & found laws, right? Ie.: items over a certain dollar value need to be turned in to the police, etc.... A quick look at any beach forum shows that many of us (including Floridians) have found nice rings and such on the beach. I don't think they're running down to police stations to turn them in. That's just one example.

Here's a thread related to this:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,249049.0.html

 

[hobbit]

hobbit, you say:

"There is no law in Florida that currently restricts .... you ....It is truly, "finder's keeper's".

I disagree with that. This may be true in actual practice, of what's simply happened all these decades. But no, I bet you that if I looked hard enough, there would have already been things that you've run afoul of. For example: FL has lost & found laws, right? Ie.: items over a certain dollar value need to be turned in to the police, etc.... A quick look at any beach forum shows that many of us (including Floridians) have found nice rings and such on the beach. I don't think they're running down to police stations to turn them in. That's just one example.

Here's a thread related to this:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,249049.0.html

Tom, you are right of course...but it is strecthing the spirit of the lost and found laws to the point of ridiculousness to suggest that they apply to items lost nearly 300 years ago. The real point in all this, of course, is that the new legislation is not going to be meaningless in practice. They are ramming this through for a reason. If the state Archies find out someone has recovered something "important" they are going to attempt to take it from them. At this point I think we can all agree that SB 868 is really bad legislation. I have not been arguing this in an attempt to be "right". In fact, I wish I was wrong. Badly.

 

[Bum Luck]

Bum luck, as you might have read on the other thread, I stated there that I read the law more in detail, as the thread progressed along, and did come away with the realization that it could actually apply all public lands, and for stuff as silly as 1960 pennies. So I .... uh .... "repented" of my previous mis-interpretation (where I had a knee-jerk reaction, seeing certain key words, that it only applied to archaeological sites). So in that sense, I am not soft-peddling, and actually back-peddling my earlier minimizations.

No, this is not a good thing, you right. And no, just because their might be a way to circumvent problems for yourself (by saying you're looking for your car keys, or that all your coins are new, and so forth), isn't the ideal solution. The better solution would be that this junk never gets passed.

Thanks, Tom.

The bottom line is that we need to stick together here, and realize that the law is a bad one. Hopefully someone asks the smarties on the board and people like the Fisher Team to help out if there needs to be a good one. Public hearings are good. Working with both sides are good.

Ambush is bad public practice.

 

[ron lord]

This is not a band on MD'S in the state of FL.Go read the LAW!!

 

[AUVnav]

maybe something like a $5 annual permit will suffice!