Emeralds:

[Peg Leg]

Does anyone have information about what ships were carrying emeralds going down off the Florida coast and the size of the stones?
PEGLEG

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[skalleewag]

i found this on the beach at the treasure coast, dont know what it is

 

[jeff k]

skalleewag... It looks like jade, but any jeweler should be able to tell you what it is.

 

[Peg Leg]

It is a little hard to use a blacklight underwater
What I really was asking about were the any ships that were KNOWN to be carry emeralds and were they part of the 1715 fleet?
PEGLEG

 

[capt_t]

my first guess was jade also

 

[mad4wrecks]

Don, I am not aware of any raw emeralds being listed on any of the manifests for the 1715 fleet. However, as was mentioned previously, you can expect there to be contraband emeralds. (ala Atocha)

In fact, a number of emeralds were found back in the early 80's on the Urca de Lima wreck, off Pepper Park, which is now an underwater archaeological preserve. This is mentioned in Weller's book, Sunken Treasure on Florida Reefs.

Here is the manifest for the registered cargo on the Regla shipwreck (don't have the Urca de Lima info handy):

2,559,917 pesos in coins and bars of 1,300 chests
23 chests of worked silver
62 chests of gifts
1 small chest of gold bars doubloons, and pearls
730 leather bags of cochineal
241 leather bags and chests of indigo
17 chests of vanilla beans
6 chests of chocolate
70 sheets of copper
730 tanned leathers
4 chests of Chinese porcelain
100 quintales of Brazilwood
9 chests of earthen vessels
14 jugs of Balsam

Who knows what were in those 62 chests of "gifts?" Were those the Queen's Jewels? Loose emeralds? Gold jewelry? A snow globe with a miniature statue of the Pope? :P


And don't forget the great number of emerald jewelry pieces that have come off this fleet, including all the stuff that was pilfered from "Luke's trench" on Corrigans (read up about it!)

Tom

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Hi Pegleg
Many years ago Mel told me that he believed that one of the ships from the 1715 fleet that had not yet been located was carrying 660 chests of emeralds.
Seahunter

 

[Peg Leg]

Scott,
Thanks my friend.
One never knows for sure does one.
PEGLEG

 

[Bill]

The El Grande (1683) was carrting 49 chests of emeralds, and 77 chests of pearls, along with 1500 pounds of gold. Lost near the cape with only 4 survivors.

 

[Peg Leg]

Bill,
Do you know where I can find more information on this wreck off the cape.
Thanks
PEGLEG

 

[FISHEYE]

In 1683, the 700 ton galleon, “Santissima Concepcion,” alias “El Grande,” commanded by Admiral Manual Ortiz Arosemena, heading for Spain after taking on treasures at Porto Bello, Panama; Cartagena, Colombia; Veracruz, Mexico; and making a stop at Havana, was totally destroyed after striking a shallow during a hurricane somewhere below the “Cape.” Of the 500 or more souls aboard her only four reached the coast on debris and made it to St. Augustine with great hardships. She was carrying over 1,800,000 pesos in treasure, the majority of which was silver bullion and specie. Her total gold consisting of bullion, specie and worked gold only weighed at around 1,500 pounds. However, gold was the most common object being smuggled and she probably carried ten times this amount as contraband. She also carried 77 chests of pearls, 49 chests of emeralds, 217 chests of “goods from the Orient,” and other valuables belonging to private persons (passengers). Repeated attempts to locate her were made almost yearly up until 1701. The only treasure ever found was a chest of clothes that washed ashore right after the disaster in which “some 1,500 pesos in unregistered gold jewelry” was discovered by soldiers sent down from St. Augustine. All her cannon were bronze.

 

[mariner]

Hi Pegleg
Many years ago Mel told me that he believed that one of the ships from the 1715 fleet that had not yet been located was carrying 660 chests of emeralds.
Seahunter

Very interesting. I have raised questions on this forum a couple of times about the so called Cortes emerald treasure wreck that is described on the web site www.emeraldtreasure.com A company called Archaeological Discovery Ventures based in West Palm Beach, and whose president is Victor Benilous, claims on their web-site that they have found, and are looting, a wreck that sank in 1757 while carrying a ship full of treasures belonging to the descendants of Hernan Cortes from Mexico to Spain. They claim that the wreck is in fairly deep water, some 12 miles off Cape Canaveral. They claim that the ship was carrying a great many emeralds, both raw and cut, including one stone that was 946 carats, and supposedly the largest single emerald in the world.

Quite a bit on their web-site is pure BS, including the story that this large emerald was a wedding present from Cortes to his wife, which made Emperor Charles V's wife, Isabella, so jealous that the stone was named after her, though she never owned it.

Sometime ago, I reached the conclusion that the wreck never even existed, and the story was just a front for the selling of emeralds and emerald jewelry. However, the story featured on a recent thread about the two ships from the 1715 fleet that have never been found, coupled with this comment from SeaHunter, makes me pose this question: is there a chance that this wreck does actually exist, and is one of those two missing ships, and the one that Mel believed to be carrying lots of emeralds ?

What would somebody have done back in the early 1990s if they had found one of the two missing ships, perhaps in an area already covered by one of the leases given to Kip Wagner & Co.? Sometimes the best place to hide something is in open view. So perhaps you go ahead and start looting the wreck, invent a plausible story that makes it not one of the missing 1715 fleet, and lie about how far out to sea it is. Then you simply start selling the emeralds on-line. You can't sell the coins, because the preponderance of dates on them would ring all sorts of bells, so you melt the coins down, and use them to produce supposed replicas of Cortes' signet ring that you claim to have found on the wreck.

There were several magazine articles published about 1993 claiming that this was the richest wreck ever found, more valuable even than the Atocha. I have tried without success to contact John C. Fine, a legitimate underwater photographer and scientist, who wrote several of the articles. He seems to have vanished without trace.

I also had some telephone conversations and exchanged e-mails with ADV president, Victor Benilous. Here is what he said about his recovery operation:

"I am sure you'll appreciate, having located the wreck in International waters, and having only recovered less than 30% of the recorded manifest presented to us and not having the luxury of having State or Federal protection we have been extremely vague, often evasive and in many occasions have deliberately contributed in passing inconsistent information in keeping the site and any information available in the archives that may lead others to the possible location of our shipwreck. I have personally financed this operation with the help of the ancestors of the Zuniga family and we have refused to bring in outside investors and therefore it has not been necessary to disclosed for investment purposes any information. This salvage industry is quite ruthless and full of devious undesirable characters, I have been quite vocal about their deceptions and dishonesty, and am not well accepted in their circle.

Nature has not cooperated well, we estimate that it may take us an additional 5 to 7 years to complete the salvage operation. Due to the "North Westerlies" that makes it undesirable and economically unfavorable to dive in the winter month, the dive season in the Caribbean's starts in April and ends around October . When you consider the hurricanes season that starts in June and ends in November it makes it practically impossible to operate a normal deep water salvage operation while trying to keep a very low key recovery.

We have been documenting through 100's of hours of high resolution videos our complete diving operation. We do not plan to sell any of the unique artifacts, rather we have already been contracted and very well compensated by committing to future books, DVD's movies and a world traveling exhibit, and eventually the collection will find a permanent home in our own Maritime Museum.

Kind regards

Vic"

Anybody got any ideas about this suggestion, or any real information, about this supposed wreck ?

Best wishes,

Mariner

 

[SEAHUNTER]

Quoted from your post Mariner
There were several magazine articles published about 1993 claiming that this was the richest wreck ever found, more valuable even than the Atocha. I have tried without success to contact John C. Fine, a legitimate underwater photographer and scientist, who wrote several of the articles. He seems to have vanished without trace.

Hi Mariner
I don't know John C. Fine myself, but I do know he published " Treasures of the Spanish Main " in 2006 in which he did a 28 page chapter on the Jupiter Wreck. He is a fellow of the Explorers Club and an officer of CMAS, the World Underwater Federation, and a member of the Academy of Underwater Arts and Sciences. Maybe this info will help you locate him.
Seahunter

 

[jeff k]

Fisheye... That info came from from one of Bob Marx's books. The problem with this wreck is that John Potter reports it sinking off Colombia (Treasure Diver's Guide, page 183). Different name (Santa Teresa), but the same year and only four survivors. Too much of a coincidence for it to be different galleons, but it's possible.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

i found this on the beach at the treasure coast, dont know what it is

I also found a green piece that looks just like yours. I will post pic if I can find it.

 

[Jimi D Pirate]

Believe it or Not!

Then there was the lady that found a gold challis after her son kicked over a piece of driftwood while walking down the beach. She took it home washed it in the sink finally taking it to the McClarty museum and was told it was definitely Gold and from the 1715 fleet. She went on to say that as she was washing it she noticed small green stones that fell out and down into the drain! She was told ... to her supprise that those small green stones were probably emeralds. She called her plumber and according to the employees at the McClarty Museum they never saw or heard from her again!
This is one of many stories told to me from the museums
Believe it or Not!

 

[Peg Leg]

And it gets deeper and deeper but I believe there may be some truth to all the stories but the one about a ship being found 12 miles off the Cape is I think 100% BS. As far as there being emearlds near Jupiter I believe this is a possible and do not be surprised in a few are not recovered this coming season .
OK
That said I have another question that I have asked several times before.
Where can I find information concerning lost ships in the Gulf of Mexico from the 1600's to the 1800's? Believe it or not this is not about my Ghost Ship
Thanks
PEGLEG

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Did you try asking Cornelius? He has maps of the area and a lot of shipwreck knowlege.

 

[Peg Leg]

I was under the impression that Cornelius had left the forum.
PEGLEG

 

[diverlynn]

Some info for you all...

THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT
DATE: Friday, September 30, 1994

SALVORS HOPE THEY'VE FOUND LOST SUNKEN TREASURE THEY MAY BE ON THE TRAIL OF AN 18TH-CENTURY GALLEON.

A small cache of emeralds and gold and silver coins was found in the sunken remains of an 18th-century Spanish galleon near Bimini this weekend, raising hopes among the salvors that the fabled and elusive Santiago El Grande has been found.

The treasure-laden ship - the very existence of which has been debated by scholars for years - is said to have sunk during a 1765 hurricane while carrying one of history's largest cargoes of gold and silver coins from South America through Havana to Spain.

"It all matches up, the carbon dating, the size of the ship, the maps from the archives,'' said Canadian treasure hunter Rick Meyer, who has led a five-year search for the ship. ``There's no way to be sure yet, but we think we've found her.''

The first ``cut in the coral'' was discovered last fall, and searchers gradually came across wood planks and other debris.

Meyer, 36, who says he and investors have spent $3 million searching for the ship, said he became convinced he had a major find in January when he discovered enough of the ship to verify its size and confirmed the age of the ribs through carbon dating.

Skeptics abound.

``Sometimes these treasure hunters spend so much time looking for one ship, when they finally find something they convince themselves it's what they've been looking for,'' said Pat Clyne, spokesman for successful treasure hunter Mel Fisher, who has recovered $400 million since 1985 from the Nuestra Senora de Atocha near Key West.

Mark Wilson, the Bahamian government official in charge of authenticating such finds, said a representative from his office had viewed the treasure and that Bahamian defense forces had been alerted to guard the wreck. The Bahamas, which issued a permit to Meyer to explore the site, will get 25 percent of any find.

``All I have is a verbal report right now,'' Wilson said. ``But I have an agent there and she in fact has seen some of the coins and gems. My inclination right now is to believe we have a significant find.''

In the high-finance world of treasure hunting, the shortage of investors makes it worthwhile to perpetuate myths, said Eugene Lyons, a renowned Spanish colonial historian from St. Petersburg.

But Meyer said Thursday that the operation is closed to investors. ``I have plenty of money,'' he said.

Last Friday, while diving in less than 100 feet of water, which Meyer says means salvors can work without heavy gear and with natural light, he vacuumed a marble-sized emerald from the sand.

In the next few hours, Meyer gathered 37 emeralds, ranging from tiny to about 20 carats, with a total weight of about 200 carats. He also found gold and silver coins, he said.

``Things were getting better, too, but we were stopped cold by the weather,'' he said.

The gems were found slowly at first, but then one after another, making Meyer think he was getting closer to the main treasure before rough seas forced him to bring his 45-foot cabin cruiser and eight-man crew back to South Florida. Meyer says he will now organize ``a massive salvage operation.''

Although the emeralds, now in a vault in Nassau, have not been appraised, they could be worth as much as $9,500 per carat, depending on where they were mined and their quality, according to Corey Malcom, director of archaeology at Mel Fisher's Maritime Heritage Society. Meyer believes the emeralds were mined in Columbia.