ivan salis
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- Feb 5, 2007
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ah it seems that once again someone has "found" a missing 1715 fleet vessel in the Nassau Sound / Amelia Island area... the newest batch of folks ( in the NEWS LEADER JUNE 24TH , 2016 ) say its the Senior San Miguel and that they think the other Missing 1715 fleet vessel "El Ciervo" mighjt be close by ...due to their "research" AND LOOKING WITH SONAR *
while other folks ( THE POLLY O GROUP) have long thought that the Nao class vessel San Miguel was sunk in Nassau Sound / Amelia Island area
I honestly think that they are both in error in regards to what vessel it actually is ....oh there is indeed a 1715 era treasure vessel with 1715 type treasure aboard it sunk in the sound and it is very valuable no doubt about it ....but it is not repeat not a "original1715 fleet" vessel ..but rather a slightly later rescue and recovery vessel sent to gather VIPs and royal treasure from the "main 1715 fleet wrecks' down south ...that was lost while headed back to spain.. below is my reasoning and sources for my beliefs
when the storm was approaching the 1715 fleet --the commander of the joint fleets was Ubilla , he ordered the 2 treasure vessels of the other fleet under Echeverz (for which Ubilla being the head commander was accountable for) to join up with his fleet (Echeverz did not like it by had no choice but to comply ..so he took his 2 treasure vessels and a smallish dutch prize vessel and joined up with Ubilla's 5 vessel fleet ... in effect making up a new 8 vessel fleet --the other 3 vessels of Echeverz's fleet were now free to break away and did so headed on a more northly course --these were the tobacco hauling Nao SAN MIGUEL , the frigate class French prize "El Ciervo" and the Conception ...
in his Sept 20th report to the king of spain ---salmon reports on the status of the vessels ...on the fleet 9 are sunk (that would be all 8 of the "new fleet " of ubilla plus word had reached him that the conception had also sank (4 survivors were found on the cape on a hatch cover) ....that would be the 9 known for sure to be lost ...plus he states that of the "gallone's" (that would be ECHEVERZ's fleet vessels) 2 are missing and thought to be lost ..since wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found" on the north shore of St Augustine"---note others due to translation issues think it in error to be "on the shore north of St. Augustine " making them in error -- think that this is speaking of the Amelia island area --its not.... its actually speaking of beach area just north of St Augustine ...
the truth of what wreck it is comes in a ps at the bottom of a letter from Alexander Spotswood ( Gov of Virginia) to Lord Stanhope (of England) dated Oct 24th of 1715 ...in it spotswood goes into great detail saying the type of vessel it was (a barkolonga) where it was from (sent from cuba) what mission it was upon (sent to the wreck sites to fetch up vip's and treasure) ...what happened it sank about 40 miles to the north of St Augustine -- basically the Nassau sound / Amelia island area...of course its cargo would be identical to that on the 1715 fleet's since thats where its cargo came from...
the sad thing is its location .. the state say its location is inside a "aquatic preserve zone" and that due to that fact they will not allow for salvage permits due to the fact it might disturb the bottom --- (please take note that the area on current maps states that you are not to depend up the charts due to the fact that its a high wash area with constantly shifting bottom sands --thus its not a stable bottom by any means --plus take note of the fact that the corp of engineers would regularly shift sand off the bottom and pump it onto the beaches at the tip of Amelia Island and if that's not disturbing the bottom what is? (oddly they would pump treasure onto the beach --where local metal detectorist would then find it --with the state getting --0%-of it --rather that the 20% if they had issued a permit for harvest --their reply to being told this -- to outlaw metal detecting on the beaches there..) ...a few years ago I slipped into a "archie fest" meeting in the St Augustine lighthouse and listened to them crow about how they had not issued ANY new salvage permits ...its clear they intend to block any and all attempts at legal treasure salvage
while other folks ( THE POLLY O GROUP) have long thought that the Nao class vessel San Miguel was sunk in Nassau Sound / Amelia Island area
I honestly think that they are both in error in regards to what vessel it actually is ....oh there is indeed a 1715 era treasure vessel with 1715 type treasure aboard it sunk in the sound and it is very valuable no doubt about it ....but it is not repeat not a "original1715 fleet" vessel ..but rather a slightly later rescue and recovery vessel sent to gather VIPs and royal treasure from the "main 1715 fleet wrecks' down south ...that was lost while headed back to spain.. below is my reasoning and sources for my beliefs
when the storm was approaching the 1715 fleet --the commander of the joint fleets was Ubilla , he ordered the 2 treasure vessels of the other fleet under Echeverz (for which Ubilla being the head commander was accountable for) to join up with his fleet (Echeverz did not like it by had no choice but to comply ..so he took his 2 treasure vessels and a smallish dutch prize vessel and joined up with Ubilla's 5 vessel fleet ... in effect making up a new 8 vessel fleet --the other 3 vessels of Echeverz's fleet were now free to break away and did so headed on a more northly course --these were the tobacco hauling Nao SAN MIGUEL , the frigate class French prize "El Ciervo" and the Conception ...
in his Sept 20th report to the king of spain ---salmon reports on the status of the vessels ...on the fleet 9 are sunk (that would be all 8 of the "new fleet " of ubilla plus word had reached him that the conception had also sank (4 survivors were found on the cape on a hatch cover) ....that would be the 9 known for sure to be lost ...plus he states that of the "gallone's" (that would be ECHEVERZ's fleet vessels) 2 are missing and thought to be lost ..since wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found" on the north shore of St Augustine"---note others due to translation issues think it in error to be "on the shore north of St. Augustine " making them in error -- think that this is speaking of the Amelia island area --its not.... its actually speaking of beach area just north of St Augustine ...
the truth of what wreck it is comes in a ps at the bottom of a letter from Alexander Spotswood ( Gov of Virginia) to Lord Stanhope (of England) dated Oct 24th of 1715 ...in it spotswood goes into great detail saying the type of vessel it was (a barkolonga) where it was from (sent from cuba) what mission it was upon (sent to the wreck sites to fetch up vip's and treasure) ...what happened it sank about 40 miles to the north of St Augustine -- basically the Nassau sound / Amelia island area...of course its cargo would be identical to that on the 1715 fleet's since thats where its cargo came from...
the sad thing is its location .. the state say its location is inside a "aquatic preserve zone" and that due to that fact they will not allow for salvage permits due to the fact it might disturb the bottom --- (please take note that the area on current maps states that you are not to depend up the charts due to the fact that its a high wash area with constantly shifting bottom sands --thus its not a stable bottom by any means --plus take note of the fact that the corp of engineers would regularly shift sand off the bottom and pump it onto the beaches at the tip of Amelia Island and if that's not disturbing the bottom what is? (oddly they would pump treasure onto the beach --where local metal detectorist would then find it --with the state getting --0%-of it --rather that the 20% if they had issued a permit for harvest --their reply to being told this -- to outlaw metal detecting on the beaches there..) ...a few years ago I slipped into a "archie fest" meeting in the St Augustine lighthouse and listened to them crow about how they had not issued ANY new salvage permits ...its clear they intend to block any and all attempts at legal treasure salvage
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