OP
OP
gollum
Gold Member
- Jan 2, 2006
- 6,729
- 7,596
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- Minelab SD2200D (Modded)/ Whites GMT 24k / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gold Bug II / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID / Falcon MD-20
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- Thread starter
- #21
Hey Folks,
Sorry I haven't checked in awhile, but been swamped with tons of other crap.
Elle, Boatlode, and Everyone Else,
Many thanks for all your help.
Elle,
I think you may be looking at The Order with those famous Rose Tinted Glasses. HAHAHA I asked Father O'Malley SJ about the slavery issue. The Jesuits were about the largest if not THE largest slaveholders in the New World (this was mainly in South America). Since the Order had plans to purchase Bolivia, and make it a Jesuit Colony, they quite possibly were buying slaves to help populate their new Country). Father O'Malley was the one that told me even The Pope had slaves on the Papal Barge. All those great plans fell apart when Jesuit Priest Gabriel Malagrida SJ was implicated in an attempt to assassinate King John I (of Portugal). Malagrida was burned at the stake, and the Jesuit Order kicked out of every Portuguese Colony on Earth in 1759.
In 1764, The Order again became involved in intrigues in France, and they were suppressed there as well.
In 1766, during The Esquillache Riots in Spain, Jesuits were arrested distributing money to the rioters, so they could keep rioting. Before that members of The Order were known to have trash talked King Charles III. See, Charles favored Church Reformation (or The Enlightened Movement). The Jesuits were on the side of the Inquisitions. They believed The Enlightened Movement was a "watered down" version of Catholicism. They were known to have said Charles was not a true Catholic King, because of his support of Church Reformation. It was said that he should not be King. Their arrests during the riots just about sealed their fates in Spain. Not immediately though. Charles sent an emissary to Mexico. This emissary (I don't remember his name off the top of my head) set up right across the street from the Main Jesuit Colegio in Mexico City. He watched and reported on all their activity for almost a year. In the beginning of 1767, Charles sent sealed envelopes containing two letters to all Spanish Provinces in Europe. The two letters were 1. The Expulsion Order of the Jesuits. 2. Instructions to the Military and Political Leaders of those provinces. The instructions directed them to "On the night of April 1st-2nd, to surround every Jesuit House, Colegio, Rectory, and any other holding of the Order. Move in and arrest every Jesuit. If one Jesuit was found to be in any Spanish Possession in Europe after their removal, whomever was responsible would be executed.
The New World took a little longer. Those same letters were sent to every Political and Military Official in every Spanish Colony in the New World. Only this was scheduled to happen on the night of June 25-26, 1767. They didn't get everybody out of Baja for another eight or nine months.
For a look at how Jesuits treated the Indios in their charge, read the reports to The Mexican Viceroy regarding the reasons for the Pima Uprising of 1751. It was ALL about the Jesuits. One of the Jesuit Missionaries (another name I don't remember off the top of my head, but I want to say Grazhoffer) saw Luis Oacpicagigua (it took me a long time to remember that name, and it is one I will never forget HAHAHA) wearing Spanish Clothing, and was carrying the stick of leadership (as he was head of the Pima Indios). The Jesuit ripped the stick of leadership away from him, and told him he would be better suited wearing a loincloth as he was nothing more than a "Chichimec Dog" (roughly the equivalent of calling a black person a n****r). There were several other Indian Revolts, and many were directly attributable to the Jesuit Missionaries. We know that, because the Missionary Priests were the first ones killed, and often the Revolting Indians (no pun intended) went way out of their way to get to the Priests.
A friend has been recording the oral histories of the Seri Indians for about 25 years. The Seri live along both sides of the Sea of Cortez (mostly the mainland side). The Jesuits were never able to Christianize the Seri. That is why they stood by and allowed the Spanish to put a bounty on Seri Scalps. Today, there are only around 80 Seri left in the world. Their view of Padre Kino is very different than that of most people. Their tribal history is that they poisoned Padre Kino. If you know how history says Kino suddenly got sick and died soon after, the poisoning idea makes a lot of sense.
All that said, please don't think I harbor ANY ill will against the Jesuit Order. I have some good friends that are Jesuit Priests. The work they have done around the world is immense, and their contributions to the Arts and Sciences cannot be argued. The Jesuits invented most of the Earth Sciences we know today. Jesuit Missionary Priests were some of the World's best Cartographers and Mathematicians (Kino was a phenomenal cartographer, and look up the name Athanasius Kircher, or Matteo Ricci). Some of the greatest and most well known names in world history were Jesuits. Its just that I look at them honestly. Without malice. Just honestly.
I have been studying Jesuit History (both known and unknown) for over twenty years. While my knowledge is immense, it is very specific to Jesuits in the New World from their arrival just after 1600, until their reinstatement as an Order of The Church in 1814. I got sucked down that hole when a friend asked me to look into the possibility the Jesuits hid a lot of wealth before their suppression. First, I read all the Jesuit Lost Mine/Treasure Stories I could find. Then as a balance, I read what all the history books say. I cultivated some friendships in the Jesuit Order (and we are still friends to this day). Father O'Malley is probably the foremost scholar on the early Jesuits in the world. His knowledge gets a little slower after about 1608. What started off as reading magazines and books, turned into learning to read and translate the three main forms of Spanish Handwriting (Italica, Procesal, and Cortesana). I can even do a pasable job with Chain Writing, but man that is work I don't want to do unless I am getting paid for it. HAHAHA Visits of Missions in Northern Mexico and the Southwest US. After reading about many of the strange illnesses at Guevavi Mission (near Nogales, Az.), I had to become a quasi-expert in heavy metal poisoning. History books say smallpox, symptoms say heavy metal poisoning from smelting, casting, and refining operations at Guevavi. It has been a wild ride. Spotting inconsistencies in book history, and finding explanations that are sometimes buried in a letter between a Priest and a Father Provincial, or the original journals of a Missionary Priest. A great example was when a friend in Arizona and I had copies of Father Kino's handwritten journals. There are a few translations of those journals, but sometimes there are tidbits in the handwritten versions that aren't mentioned in the books (I have two translations plus the handwritten journals). Here is one of those tidbits:
Here is one page from Kino's Handwritten Journals:
Does anybody see anything unusual on that page? Maybe a closer look:
Right smack dab in the middle of the page is another little Globus Cruciger looking symbol with no explanation (or a combination of Globus Cruciger+Male Symbol+Swedish Steel Symbol). There is no mention of it in either of my two translations. Now, I am not saying "conspiracy" because while one WAS written by Father Ernest J Burrus SJ (Society of Jesus), the second is by Herbert Eugene Bolton (History Scholar from UC Berkeley). I don't personally know his religious affiliations, but there is no mention of the symbol. Now, I can't take credit for this. My buddy in Arizona caught it and sent it to me. He moved to Tumacacori just to hunt that treasure, and he was at it twelve years before I got into the subject twenty years ago! He is one of the few people still with an active "Treasure Trove Permit" in the Coronado National Forest. Tidbits!
Thanks Again - Mike
Sorry I haven't checked in awhile, but been swamped with tons of other crap.
Elle, Boatlode, and Everyone Else,
Many thanks for all your help.
Elle,
I think you may be looking at The Order with those famous Rose Tinted Glasses. HAHAHA I asked Father O'Malley SJ about the slavery issue. The Jesuits were about the largest if not THE largest slaveholders in the New World (this was mainly in South America). Since the Order had plans to purchase Bolivia, and make it a Jesuit Colony, they quite possibly were buying slaves to help populate their new Country). Father O'Malley was the one that told me even The Pope had slaves on the Papal Barge. All those great plans fell apart when Jesuit Priest Gabriel Malagrida SJ was implicated in an attempt to assassinate King John I (of Portugal). Malagrida was burned at the stake, and the Jesuit Order kicked out of every Portuguese Colony on Earth in 1759.
In 1764, The Order again became involved in intrigues in France, and they were suppressed there as well.
In 1766, during The Esquillache Riots in Spain, Jesuits were arrested distributing money to the rioters, so they could keep rioting. Before that members of The Order were known to have trash talked King Charles III. See, Charles favored Church Reformation (or The Enlightened Movement). The Jesuits were on the side of the Inquisitions. They believed The Enlightened Movement was a "watered down" version of Catholicism. They were known to have said Charles was not a true Catholic King, because of his support of Church Reformation. It was said that he should not be King. Their arrests during the riots just about sealed their fates in Spain. Not immediately though. Charles sent an emissary to Mexico. This emissary (I don't remember his name off the top of my head) set up right across the street from the Main Jesuit Colegio in Mexico City. He watched and reported on all their activity for almost a year. In the beginning of 1767, Charles sent sealed envelopes containing two letters to all Spanish Provinces in Europe. The two letters were 1. The Expulsion Order of the Jesuits. 2. Instructions to the Military and Political Leaders of those provinces. The instructions directed them to "On the night of April 1st-2nd, to surround every Jesuit House, Colegio, Rectory, and any other holding of the Order. Move in and arrest every Jesuit. If one Jesuit was found to be in any Spanish Possession in Europe after their removal, whomever was responsible would be executed.
The New World took a little longer. Those same letters were sent to every Political and Military Official in every Spanish Colony in the New World. Only this was scheduled to happen on the night of June 25-26, 1767. They didn't get everybody out of Baja for another eight or nine months.
For a look at how Jesuits treated the Indios in their charge, read the reports to The Mexican Viceroy regarding the reasons for the Pima Uprising of 1751. It was ALL about the Jesuits. One of the Jesuit Missionaries (another name I don't remember off the top of my head, but I want to say Grazhoffer) saw Luis Oacpicagigua (it took me a long time to remember that name, and it is one I will never forget HAHAHA) wearing Spanish Clothing, and was carrying the stick of leadership (as he was head of the Pima Indios). The Jesuit ripped the stick of leadership away from him, and told him he would be better suited wearing a loincloth as he was nothing more than a "Chichimec Dog" (roughly the equivalent of calling a black person a n****r). There were several other Indian Revolts, and many were directly attributable to the Jesuit Missionaries. We know that, because the Missionary Priests were the first ones killed, and often the Revolting Indians (no pun intended) went way out of their way to get to the Priests.
A friend has been recording the oral histories of the Seri Indians for about 25 years. The Seri live along both sides of the Sea of Cortez (mostly the mainland side). The Jesuits were never able to Christianize the Seri. That is why they stood by and allowed the Spanish to put a bounty on Seri Scalps. Today, there are only around 80 Seri left in the world. Their view of Padre Kino is very different than that of most people. Their tribal history is that they poisoned Padre Kino. If you know how history says Kino suddenly got sick and died soon after, the poisoning idea makes a lot of sense.
All that said, please don't think I harbor ANY ill will against the Jesuit Order. I have some good friends that are Jesuit Priests. The work they have done around the world is immense, and their contributions to the Arts and Sciences cannot be argued. The Jesuits invented most of the Earth Sciences we know today. Jesuit Missionary Priests were some of the World's best Cartographers and Mathematicians (Kino was a phenomenal cartographer, and look up the name Athanasius Kircher, or Matteo Ricci). Some of the greatest and most well known names in world history were Jesuits. Its just that I look at them honestly. Without malice. Just honestly.
I have been studying Jesuit History (both known and unknown) for over twenty years. While my knowledge is immense, it is very specific to Jesuits in the New World from their arrival just after 1600, until their reinstatement as an Order of The Church in 1814. I got sucked down that hole when a friend asked me to look into the possibility the Jesuits hid a lot of wealth before their suppression. First, I read all the Jesuit Lost Mine/Treasure Stories I could find. Then as a balance, I read what all the history books say. I cultivated some friendships in the Jesuit Order (and we are still friends to this day). Father O'Malley is probably the foremost scholar on the early Jesuits in the world. His knowledge gets a little slower after about 1608. What started off as reading magazines and books, turned into learning to read and translate the three main forms of Spanish Handwriting (Italica, Procesal, and Cortesana). I can even do a pasable job with Chain Writing, but man that is work I don't want to do unless I am getting paid for it. HAHAHA Visits of Missions in Northern Mexico and the Southwest US. After reading about many of the strange illnesses at Guevavi Mission (near Nogales, Az.), I had to become a quasi-expert in heavy metal poisoning. History books say smallpox, symptoms say heavy metal poisoning from smelting, casting, and refining operations at Guevavi. It has been a wild ride. Spotting inconsistencies in book history, and finding explanations that are sometimes buried in a letter between a Priest and a Father Provincial, or the original journals of a Missionary Priest. A great example was when a friend in Arizona and I had copies of Father Kino's handwritten journals. There are a few translations of those journals, but sometimes there are tidbits in the handwritten versions that aren't mentioned in the books (I have two translations plus the handwritten journals). Here is one of those tidbits:
Here is one page from Kino's Handwritten Journals:
Does anybody see anything unusual on that page? Maybe a closer look:
Right smack dab in the middle of the page is another little Globus Cruciger looking symbol with no explanation (or a combination of Globus Cruciger+Male Symbol+Swedish Steel Symbol). There is no mention of it in either of my two translations. Now, I am not saying "conspiracy" because while one WAS written by Father Ernest J Burrus SJ (Society of Jesus), the second is by Herbert Eugene Bolton (History Scholar from UC Berkeley). I don't personally know his religious affiliations, but there is no mention of the symbol. Now, I can't take credit for this. My buddy in Arizona caught it and sent it to me. He moved to Tumacacori just to hunt that treasure, and he was at it twelve years before I got into the subject twenty years ago! He is one of the few people still with an active "Treasure Trove Permit" in the Coronado National Forest. Tidbits!
Thanks Again - Mike
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