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Thread: Placing a value on the French monument removed by the Spanish and lost at Sea.

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  1. #1
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2013
    Tampa, FL
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    Placing a value on the French monument removed by the Spanish and lost at Sea.

    Can anyone help us put a value on the monument GME discovered last year? We have documentation proving this is the monument that was placed near Fort Caroline in 1562, it was later removed by the Spanish when the fort was captured and lost at sea.

    We need a professional opinion/appraisal on the value of this monument as well as the bronze cannons that we discovered last year. Attached is a little info.

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  2. #2
    Charter Member
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    A few more pictures

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    Last edited by Global Marine Exploration; Apr 29, 2017 at 08:39 PM.
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  3. #3
    us
    Dec 2008
    Dominican Republic - Sebastian, Florida
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    Video could help also

    Quote Originally Posted by Global Marine Exploration View Post
    A few more pictures

    Click image for larger version. 

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    U tube video I hope this works

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  4. #4
    us
    Dec 2008
    Dominican Republic - Sebastian, Florida
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    Oh
    Sorry Bill I did not see you already had it on here, my bad

  5. #5

    Jan 2016
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    Looking at the video, my first suggestion would be next dive, turn off the blower first!

    Would be interesting to see where the other 3 monuments that were taken back to France are located, if they even remain. This would help with what the relative importance has been given to the monument.

    Are you able to locate the rest of the monument, or just this piece?

    Looking up the Ribault Column...the plaque does not appear it was made of stone..

    "Ribault landed near the St. Augustine area. As he sailed further north, he found a river that was called the St. Johns River. Because he did not like the river's Spanish name, he renamed it the "River of May." (Today, it is known again as the St. Johns River.) At the mouth of the river, Ribault built a stone monument to mark his visit (see picture at left) and claim it for France.

    Ribault constructed a five-sided column featuring a bronze shield bearing the cost-of-arms of Queen Catherine, the very woman who had opposed the mission. Curious Timucuans under Chief Saturiba visited the Huguenot encampment. The French presented the Timucuans with gowns of blue embroidery. In return, Saturiba stocked the French with maize, beans, cucumbers, and fish. Ribault wrote glowingly of the friendliness of the contact."

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/midd...9-Ribault1.htm
    Last edited by seekerGH; Apr 30, 2017 at 09:15 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Bobby, I can't imagine putting a price on a one-of-a-kind monument. Curious - was it broken or cut up? The painting version is clearly longer than what GME found.

    As far as the cannon, it will depend on its markings, size, founder, condition, etc. Here is a site where they are selling from 12-30k. I have heard of higher prices, but I think 20-30k is average.

    Original 1780 Bronze 6-Pounder Saker Cannon with Oak Naval Carriage ima-usa.com

    Fascinating finds. Is Fla pushing for "in-situ" or is anyone planning to recover these?
    eyemustdigtreasure likes this.

  7. #7

    May 2006
    827
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    Try a respectable auctioneer. I would try Bonhams, their London office sold the Visser collection a few years ago which included good bronze cannon. Bonhams : Locations

  8. #8

    Sep 2012
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  9. #9
    us
    Dec 2008
    Dominican Republic - Sebastian, Florida
    Aqua Pulse and Pluse 8 JW Fishers, Garret Sea hunter II
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    Quote Originally Posted by seekerGH View Post
    Looking at the video, my first suggestion would be next dive, turn off the blower first!

    Would be interesting to see where the other 3 monuments that were taken back to France are located, if they even remain. This would help with what the relative importance has been given to the monument.

    Are you able to locate the rest of the monument, or just this piece?

    Looking up the Ribault Column...the plaque does not appear it was made of stone..

    "Ribault landed near the St. Augustine area. As he sailed further north, he found a river that was called the St. Johns River. Because he did not like the river's Spanish name, he renamed it the "River of May." (Today, it is known again as the St. Johns River.) At the mouth of the river, Ribault built a stone monument to mark his visit (see picture at left) and claim it for France.

    Ribault constructed a five-sided column featuring a bronze shield bearing the cost-of-arms of Queen Catherine, the very woman who had opposed the mission. Curious Timucuans under Chief Saturiba visited the Huguenot encampment. The French presented the Timucuans with gowns of blue embroidery. In return, Saturiba stocked the French with maize, beans, cucumbers, and fish. Ribault wrote glowingly of the friendliness of the contact."

    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/midd...9-Ribault1.htm
    Seeker the shield was not bronze, it was made of stone marble this we have documentation of, what you have is not a real refernce,if you do you research you will see that 5 came over in 1562, 3 went back to France in 1562 and one was captured in 1564 and taken to Spain, that leaves one, the one GME found,
    All what I say I have original ref, source
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  10. #10
    us
    Dec 2008
    Dominican Republic - Sebastian, Florida
    Aqua Pulse and Pluse 8 JW Fishers, Garret Sea hunter II
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    This piece was setting on a round pedestal we think, that set on a column we beleave as we also found the pedestal it may set on,

    You are off on the cannon by hundreds of thousands for sure
    this is from 1548 with kings info as well as wife and girl friend, and because of where and the story

    Thanks Darren but we need a professional to help us with this

    i believe we are looking at 50-60 mil for what we have found already, look up what has sold like this

    Also Seeker "FYI" if we would have turned blowers off we would not have been able to see, the water is mirky there
    Last edited by Black Duck; Apr 30, 2017 at 03:06 PM.
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  11. #11
    us
    Dec 2008
    Dominican Republic - Sebastian, Florida
    Aqua Pulse and Pluse 8 JW Fishers, Garret Sea hunter II
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    270 times
    Just another note, marble weights a lot, so it would have been in sections not one piece, nothing we have found so far is broke,
    Also the area is under surveillance, and off limits and we are in Federal court with France and the State of Florida right now. over this issue, so be advised that you will get boarded if anyone trying to dive sites
    eyemustdigtreasure likes this.

  12. #12
    us
    Pirate of the Martires

    Feb 2005
    Port Richey, Florida
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    "Also the area is under surveillance, and off limits and we are in Federal court with France and the State of Florida right now. over this issue, so be advised that you will get boarded if anyone trying to dive sites."

    Do they watch it at night?
    Last edited by Salvor6; Apr 30, 2017 at 05:16 PM. Reason: added quotes

  13. #13
    us
    Dec 2008
    Dominican Republic - Sebastian, Florida
    Aqua Pulse and Pluse 8 JW Fishers, Garret Sea hunter II
    267
    270 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor6 View Post
    "Also the area is under surveillance, and off limits and we are in Federal court with France and the State of Florida right now. over this issue, so be advised that you will get boarded if anyone trying to dive sites."

    Do they watch it at night?
    What do u think ?
    I would not want to be the one to find out this is no game,

  14. #14
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2012
    Maryland
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    This could be a matter of what the market will bear. First, find the market and 99% of the whole world would not be able to afford this. There must be antiquities appraisers who know their stuff. The major museums would know.
    eyemustdigtreasure likes this.

  15. #15
    us
    Apr 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Duck View Post
    You are off on the cannon by hundreds of thousands for sure...
    After 25 years of doing this, I hear this all the time. Mel Fisher and Odyssey do the same thing - they always believe their finds are worth zillions and overstate their value. I do hope a "professional" will tell you otherwise. I really do.

    Smithbrown above mentioned a respectable auctioneer like Bonhams. He knows what he speaks of. Even extremely rare cannon from the 1600s don't fetch hundreds of thousands...

    https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/149...?category=list

    Good luck.
    mooncusser likes this.

 

 
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