The Queen’s Jewels from 1715 fleet

[ARC]

And I just remembered... His son also died with him.

 

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[ARC]

gold that was recovered * not silver ---gold was the commonly smuggled item due to it value --guess I wasn't totally clear

No worries...

I can say this...

Regardless of what you might have learned or have read... beings many stories of the story exist... and some are based on more solid ground than others...

We weren't there

:P

 

[ivan salis]

then why did yanda the pilot major of the fleet say in Havana cuba during hearing on the fleets loss that ubilla ordered echeverz to join his treasure vessels with that of ubiila ? I got this data from the reale 8's records a copy book of which was given to me by taffi fisher as a gift for some info I told her

 

[ivan salis]

give me a call we can chat

 

[ivan salis]

correct we were not there but salmon was and his letter to the king of oct 20 1715 was recorded -- so I tend to go with eyewitness record --like salmon and the pilot majors account in Havana cuba during the loss hearings both which are in the reale 8's records of transcripts of the Spanish archive translations … lots of folk like to guess I prefer documents and facts --although a bit of free thought is sometimes required to knit the pieces together

 

[ARC]

Not big on the whole phone thing Ivan.

But... Perhaps some time we shall chat.

 

[sphillips]

yes but in t6he account of the pilot major of the fleet (ubilla's pilot) it was noted that ubilla ordered the 2 treasure vessels of Echeverz to li9nk up with his fleet as the storm approached -- Echeverz did not like it but since Ubilla was senior in command had to comply Echeverz also brought the dutch prize vessel known as "olandisa" or san meguel so a total of 8 vessels which sank as a group --- 3 vessels of Echeverz fleet were ordered to break off ---the tobacco hauling nao San Miguel ---the French prize "el ciervo"---and the nao conception

How did ships communicate with with each other in1715, especially in heavy seas?

 

[Red_desert]

Red I think the Queen's jewels are on one of the 5 vessel's that have not been found like the Magdalena.

Interesting possibilities, we'll know for sure what ship they were on, once the jewels are found. Too bad you can't just get a finder's fee from Spain.

 

[Red_desert]

from the accounts I have read * there were 11 Spanish vessels in the combined 1715 fleet ---5 in Ubilla's fleet and 6 in Echeverz's fleet --plus the French vessel Griffon for a total of 12 vessels ---salmon letter to t6he king of spain of oct 20 1715 says -- of the fleet 9 are known to be lost and 2 of the terra firme fleet gallones are thought to be sank on the high seas because wreckage of a large vessel or vessels was found on the north coast of st Augustine (modern day Anastasia island area) -- since he did not have to account6 for the French vessel and also had no clue where it went to --he did not write about it --but as the 2nd in command under Ubilla --salmon would have known exactly how many vessels were in the fleet since he had to account for their whereabouts and condition

I can remember most of what I'd read in the eye witness account. Ivan doesn't it mention in there, the Queen's Jewels secretly were stashed in Umbilla's cabin?

 

[ARC]

Red I think the Queen's jewels are on one of the 5 vessel's that have not been found like the Magdalena.

Actually it depends on who you ask as to how many are left.

 

[Red_desert]

Name of current Spanish queen Letizia?

 

[ROBOTCOP13]

Testimony of Luaurriaga, Master of Silver on Ubilla's Almiranta, 18 Nov 1716. He verifies that the Queen's jewels were delivered to Antonio de Potfis, Master of Silver on Ubilla's Capitana, who died in the disaster. The jewels were kept in Potfis' chest of clothing or portable desk, neither of which turned up in the salvage operations. He is sure, that because the currents in that area, which are very strong, that the desk or chest of clothes with the jewels were carried away like the serones or bags of indigo and cochineal.

 

[Red_desert]

This would be her.

 

[Red_desert]

Letizia the crowned princess married to become the Queen of Spain.



View attachment 1853310

 

[ARC]

Testimony of Luaurriaga, Master of Silver on Ubilla's Almiranta, 18 Nov 1716. He verifies that the Queen's jewels were delivered to Antonio de Potfis, Master of Silver on Ubilla's Capitana, who died in the disaster. The jewels were kept in Potfis' chest of clothing or portable desk, neither of which turned up in the salvage operations. He is sure, that because the currents in that area, which are very strong, that the desk or chest of clothes with the jewels were carried away like the serones or bags of indigo and cochineal.

So you saw that old 2012 thread I see.

should also include this then...

List of jewels sent to the Queen aboard the Capitana of Ubilla's Flota, sent by the President of Guadalajara, Mexico.

A. Two pair of gold earrings (drop earrings); one pair was in 3 parts, the lower part being in the shape of a pineapple with 129 pearls (very small ones); the other pair was smaller and each had 38 small pearls and on one extremity there was a gold amulet. Both pair weighed 3 and 1/16 ounces.
B. A rosary made of coral the size of chickpeas with the "Our Father" in gold and with three small medals and a small rose also of gold, weighing 3 1/16th ounces.
C. Two pearls in the shape of an almond, weighing 28 carats; another round pearl, weighing 8 carats; 98 inferior pearls, much smaller in size.
D. A gold jewel in which it appears to have the image of St. Clara.
E. Three gold rings, two plain and one with an emerald.

 

[ROBOTCOP13]

Notice the Fleur de Lis in the design of the crown and the brooch. Originally a French symbol. King Philip V, a Frenchman became the King of Spain in 1701. Very controversal at the time, started the eleven year war. King Philip V was the beginning of the House of Bourbon of Spain. After hundreds of years and regime changes the House of Bourbon was restored to the throne. The current royal family is still of the House of Bourbon. Another French symbol that became attributed to Spain is the Flag of the Cross of Burgundy.
The commonly seen flattened red cross on the white field, Spanish naval ensign, Coat of arms of Duque de Linares, the Viceroy of New Spain from 1711 - 1716, the Florida state flag and the Confederate flag.

 

[ROBOTCOP13]

No, I read the Jack Haskin's report.

 

[Magoopeter]

2014 by Tammy Gross
Miguel de Lima has told him that in the Real of the
Refuerzo there are some jewels and treasure sent by the Viceroy of
New Spain for the Queen. The Governor asks Armenta to have these
sent at the earliest opportunity to Havana. Also, to help Echeverz
in the salvage of his Capitana, because of the Royal Treasure it
was carrying.

 

[ROBOTCOP13]

The jewels that were given to Antonio de Potflis the Master of Silver came from the President Governor of the Audiencia of Guadalajara, Toribio Rodriquez de Solis. There were several Audiencias in New World Spain but the Governor of Guadalajara was second in command to the Viceroy of New World Spain and served in his role during the Viceroy's absence.

I could see a scenario where the Viceroy would delegate to the Governor such an important task as gathering jewels for a gift for the new Queen.

 

[ivan salis]

signal flags for the most part