Who Owns Legal Salvage Rights for Shipwreck? - Page 3
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Thread: Who Owns Legal Salvage Rights for Shipwreck?

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  1. #31
    us
    Jul 2010
    NC, GA, FL
    Fisher CZ20, Garrett
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    I didn't know Margaret, but she sounds like a practical lady with a deep love of preserving AND sharing history.

    From her tribute that was linked above by Magoopeter, "Some campaigners favour leaving the remains untouched at the bottom of the sea. However, at 75 metres down what is one of Britainís greatest wrecks has succumbed to looting, erosion and damage from fishing trawlers. To Margaret the world of marine archaeology was composed of those who do and those who donít: she maintained a no-nonsense practical approach to the sunken past...To Margaret marine archaeology was a public resource, not an elitist realm solely for heritage managers and academics."
    Last edited by GreenHiker; Feb 13, 2020 at 07:00 PM.
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  2. #32
    ie
    Mr

    Jan 2016
    Ireland
    underwater
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    Shipwrecks
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    What accusations? That she worked for a treasure hunting company and helped ransack, for instance, a US Navy ship?

    She did all that. You want to see the documents?
    Like I said your a very small fish.

  3. #33
    Charter Member
    us
    ARC

    Aug 2014
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    Margaret Rule was made a Commander of the Order of the British Empire.
    The National Maritime Museum awarded her its Caird Medal.
    The University of Portsmouth named a new 342 bed student accommodation block Margaret Rule Hall after her.
    And she was awarded the Colin Mcleod Award for "Furthering international co-operation in diving" by the British Sub Aqua Club.

    Anyone here in this thread "measure up" to this ? ? ?

    IF you do... then you can cast stones... until then... leave her alone.
    Last edited by AARC; Feb 14, 2020 at 05:44 AM.
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  4. #34
    us
    May 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    What is the negative effect?



    They meant that it is protected from treasure hunting... All the other factors still apply.
    Ok.

    What is the "proper" disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then?
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." ó Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

  5. #35
    ie
    Mr

    Jan 2016
    Ireland
    underwater
    81
    145 times
    Shipwrecks
    The disposition is different depending on what law you have to observe.
    Gold or silver, it depends on where you are and who has jurisdiction, the system of rules which a particular country or state recognizes as regulating the law of salvage or law of finds as some will take president over international law. I believe Mel Fisher won his rights to the Atocha under a Treasure Trove law, that was strange as that come an old English law that protected farmers from landlords, finders keepers sort of thing did not matter who owned the land it was who found the treasure, the Admiralty law of salvage protects the owner , even the law of finds protects the owner they both come from old English laws, starting with the law of finds and again involved Farmers.
    But normally it should belong to ever owned at the time of sinking, or if an insurance claim was made against its loss and an insure paid out on the claim then they would own it. How ever if you can prove the owner has abandoned it then you can salvage it on behalf of the owner, for the salvage reward. If the insurance company or owner no longer exists then it is yours you may have to pay import duty and income tax on it depending were the shipwreck is. One thing to look into if an insurance company does not exist today, it might have been bought out rather than just disappeared in that case the company that took over the original company would have ownership.
    Last edited by Magoopeter; Feb 15, 2020 at 04:27 PM.

  6. #36
    us
    May 2008
    Wisconsin
    Teknetics T2SE, GARRETT GTI 2500, Garrett Infinium
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    No, no, no!

    I meant according to archaeologists.
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." ó Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

  7. #37
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    1,034
    391 times
    “The late Dr Margaret Rule, the founding Chair of the Maritime Heritage Foundation Scientific Committee, was best known for her major role in directing the iconic excavation and recovery of Henry VIII’s flagship “Mary Rose“. However later in her career Dr Rule took the controversial position that the monetization of material from historic shipwrecks by commercial salvage companies was an acceptable position if it funded archaeological work. From 1999 Dr Rule was associated, in an advisory role, with another treasure hunting company Arqueonautas Worldwide, which has also been a business partner of Odyssey Marine Exploration.
    In the year 2000, while Dr Rule was associated with the company as a member of its “Scientific Committee”, Arqueonautas sold material which had been raised without permission from the US Navy Sloop of War the “USS Yorktown”. This action resulted in an investigation by the US Departments of the Navy and State, which successfully demanded the return of the material.
    The two companies, Odyssey and Arqueonautas, also collaborated on the legal, but in widely accepted archaeological terms unethical, sale of coins from the Portuguese ship Sao Jose lost off Mozambique.”


    NoŽl Hume, Ivor (2010) “A Passion for the Past: The Odyssey of a Transatlantic Archaeologist”. University Of Virginia Press.

  8. #38
    br
    Jul 2018
    510
    624 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Sorry William 2020.

    The recovery of a wreck and its contents are governed by the Law of Salvage, and the Law of Finds.

    Unless your "friend" wants to spends $millions in an attempt to recover a bunch of old artefacts, I would suggest that your friend follows the extensive case law of Maritime Law on the Titanic.

    In other subjects..Margaret Rule was an unabashed idiot....the work on the Mary Rose is basic, if not childish, on the recovery efforts and presentation of the data from the artefacts recovered.
    There is little, to no, respect for her in the archaeological world...
    she is famous for being famous, and little else....nothing more than a blowhard....she lost it (sorry to be blunt, but her mind) in many of the decisions she is credited for, and that is very, very evident.
    Last edited by xaos; Feb 16, 2020 at 05:53 PM.
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  9. #39
    us
    May 2008
    Wisconsin
    Teknetics T2SE, GARRETT GTI 2500, Garrett Infinium
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    I merely asked, "What is the proper disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then" - according to archaeologists?
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." ó Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

  10. #40
    ie
    Mr

    Jan 2016
    Ireland
    underwater
    81
    145 times
    Shipwrecks
    Quote Originally Posted by xaos View Post
    Sorry William 2020.

    The recovery of a wreck and its contents are governed by the Law of Salvage, and the Law of Finds.

    Unless your "friend" wants to spends $millions in an attempt to recover a bunch of old artefacts, I would suggest that your friend follows the extensive case law of Maritime Law on the Titanic.

    In other subjects..Margaret Rule was an unabashed idiot....the work on the Mary Rose is basic, if not childish, on the recovery efforts and presentation of the data from the artefacts recovered.
    There is little, to no, respect for her in the archaeological world...
    she is famous for being famous, and little else....nothing more than a blowhard....she lost it (sorry to be blunt, but her mind) in many of the decisions she is credited for, and that is very, very evident.
    Did you ever meet Margaret Rule work with her or visits the Mary Rose museum, to see the work that was done, most recognise the Mary Rose as the most ambitious archaeological project ever under taken, and in that field they are seen as world leaders, they work with and help many other archaeological institutions and projects globally.
    Today the HMS victory is left on the bottom of the English Channel, all for the lack of someone of Margret Rules character determination and vision.

    What you’ve posted there is one person’s opinion, Margaret Rules role in MHF was a governmental advisor, to inform the British government not MHF, and I would say the other Scientific Committee was like wise but I can’t really comment for sure as I don’t know, but will ask.

    Small Fish, I’d like to know what’s wrong with shipwrecks paying for themselves instead of the tax payer.

    Id like to know what you two have done in your career that matches the Mary Rose Project, are you even qualified commercial divers?

    I think you can talk the talk but don’t walk the walk.
    Last edited by Magoopeter; Feb 16, 2020 at 07:26 PM.

  11. #41
    Charter Member
    us
    Pirate of the Martires

    Feb 2005
    Port Richey, Florida
    Aquapulse, J.W. Fisher Proton 3, Pulse Star II, Detector Pro Headhunter, AK-47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bum Luck View Post
    I merely asked, "What is the proper disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then" - according to archaeologists?
    They recover, conserve and display all the artifacts. The gold and silver goes into their retirement account.

  12. #42
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    1,034
    391 times
    I have found both gold and silver underwater.

    Just like any other artifact, they were cleaned and tagged. And kept in public storage, also just like any other artifact.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bum Luck View Post
    I merely asked, "What is the proper disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then" - according to archaeologists?
    AARC likes this.

  13. #43

    Dec 2004
    Down in the pit
    Garrett 350 GTA
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    Quote Originally Posted by xaos View Post
    The recovery of a wreck and its contents are governed by the Law of Salvage, and the Law of Finds.
    Are the Law of Salvage and the Law of Finds universally binding, or are they only binding to signatories? In other words, if there was a civil war or revolution in a country that resulted in part of that country breaking away and becoming its own nation, are they obligated to abide by these laws? In theory, a spanking new country has no treaties or international agreements until they choose to sign them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor6 View Post
    They recover, conserve and display all the artifacts. The gold and silver goes into their retirement account.
    I've always thought there was a type of money laundering thing going on here. The archeologists recover the booty, turn it over to a government to be controlled (either in a museum or at the pleasure of the government), and then receive their tribute in the form of lifetime grants and favored treatment in legal conflicts.
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  14. #44
    pt
    Oct 2009
    Lisbon
    1,034
    391 times
    I think you are thinking about treasure hunters, or at least, smart, successful TH.

    I cannot recall any treasure ship ever being recovered by archaeologists. Some coins here and there, yes, but a real treasure... nope.


    Quote Originally Posted by MiddenMonster View Post
    I've always thought there was a type of money laundering thing going on here. The archeologists recover the booty, turn it over to a government to be controlled (either in a museum or at the pleasure of the government), and then receive their tribute in the form of lifetime grants and favored treatment in legal conflicts.

  15. #45
    us
    May 2008
    Wisconsin
    Teknetics T2SE, GARRETT GTI 2500, Garrett Infinium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandre View Post
    I have found both gold and silver underwater.

    Just like any other artifact, they were cleaned and tagged. And kept in public storage, also just like any other artifact.


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    public storage? Like what?
    "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything." ó Friedrich Nietzsche

    "You ask where I live. I cannot tell you. I am a Voyageur, a Chicot, sir. I live everywhere. My grandfather was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. My father was a voyageur; he died while on a voyage. I will also die while en route, and another Chicot will take my place. Such is our course of life."

 

 
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