Who Owns Legal Salvage Rights for Shipwreck?

[Salvor6]

I merely asked, "What is the proper disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then" - according to archaeologists?

They recover, conserve and display all the artifacts. The gold and silver goes into their retirement account.

 

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[Alexandre]

I have found both gold and silver underwater.

Just like any other artifact, they were cleaned and tagged. And kept in public storage, also just like any other artifact.

I merely asked, "What is the proper disposition of the gold and silver on shipwrecks then" - according to archaeologists?

 

[MiddenMonster]

The recovery of a wreck and its contents are governed by the Law of Salvage, and the Law of Finds.

Are the Law of Salvage and the Law of Finds universally binding, or are they only binding to signatories? In other words, if there was a civil war or revolution in a country that resulted in part of that country breaking away and becoming its own nation, are they obligated to abide by these laws? In theory, a spanking new country has no treaties or international agreements until they choose to sign them.

They recover, conserve and display all the artifacts. The gold and silver goes into their retirement account.

I've always thought there was a type of money laundering thing going on here. The archeologists recover the booty, turn it over to a government to be controlled (either in a museum or at the pleasure of the government), and then receive their tribute in the form of lifetime grants and favored treatment in legal conflicts.

 

[Alexandre]

I think you are thinking about treasure hunters, or at least, smart, successful TH.

I cannot recall any treasure ship ever being recovered by archaeologists. Some coins here and there, yes, but a real treasure... nope.

I've always thought there was a type of money laundering thing going on here. The archeologists recover the booty, turn it over to a government to be controlled (either in a museum or at the pleasure of the government), and then receive their tribute in the form of lifetime grants and favored treatment in legal conflicts.

 

[Bum Luck]

I have found both gold and silver underwater.

Just like any other artifact, they were cleaned and tagged. And kept in public storage, also just like any other artifact.


View attachment 1802516 View attachment 1802517

public storage? Like what?

 

[ARC]

Just like any other artifact, they were cleaned and tagged. And kept in public storage, also just like any other artifact.

IS this "public storage" accessible to any and all public to view any and all artifacts at any time for any reason ? ? ?

 

[Bum Luck]

In other subjects..Margaret Rule was an unabashed idiot....the work on the Mary Rose is basic, if not childish, on the recovery efforts and presentation of the data from the artefacts recovered.
There is little, to no, respect for her in the archaeological world...
she is famous for being famous, and little else....nothing more than a blowhard....she lost it (sorry to be blunt, but her mind) in many of the decisions she is credited for, and that is very, very evident.

I can't find any such views of Margaret online. I have seen many times that the archaeological world is heavy with dogma, but can you provide some links for them?

 

[ARC]

public storage? Like what?

 

[Alexandre]

You can see the Mercedes coins as much as you like.

https://sailandtrip.com/noticia/fragata-nuestra-senora-de-las-mercedes/

IS this "public storage" accessible to any and all public to view any and all artifacts at any time for any reason ? ? ?

 

[Magoopeter]

There are lots of archaeologists who don’t publish or have their work conserved, displayed or accessible to the public. It not always their fault as funding is not always available. That way selling what is legal tender, a commodity like collectable coins makes sense.
This site covers some VOC wrecks,
MAARER - Home
Two wrecks t Vliegent Hart and Rooswijk are featured, all coins except a selection set aside for museum display were sold, 20% of the sale went to the Dutch government, all artefacts were cleaned and stored in a protective manner and handed over to the Dutch for conservation and Museum display. All the artefacts were recovered using archaeological methods.
A full chest of gold coins was recovered from the t Vleigent Hart along with silver coins all sold.
Twenty-eight thousand silver coins some unique examples along with 1000 silver ingots were recovered from the Rooswijk all sold.
It is good to think that people have the opportunity to own a piece of history and share an interest with thousands of others worldwide, instead of thousands of coins sitting in a dark room somewhere under a museum.
All the coins and artefacts were reordered and photographed and are accessible to the public in the online artefact archive on the site, this site is only the start of producing an online archive of some of our own work and others its hoped to give those who have not had a chance to publish their work an avenue to make their work publicly available. I am all for archaeology and commercial salvage as long as the salvage is legal both can survive on their own but are better together just like it was in the beginning.

 

[Magoopeter]

Rooswijk


Best feeling in the world finding the first coins on the Rooswijk. Coin expert explains the inscription on the coin, from the banner entwined around the pillars, which themselves represent the gates to the 'New World' the Pillars of Hercules VTRAQUE VNUM "both worlds are one".


Ken welling who discovered the Rooswijk, surrounded by some of the silver ingots. Man is a genius the way he found the Rooswijk is a great story.


Coins and Ingots from the Rooswijk.


With Sir Rex Cowan after the Rooswijk

 

[Magoopeter]

After the Mary Rose, in the presence of the great Margaret Rule


Mary Rose anchor, Navy museum Portsmouth


In the Presence of another great Dr Gene Lyons

 

[whydahdiver]

Great post Mag! I met Cowan years ago at Fort Bovisand in Plymouth when we both gave talks at a shipwreck conference. I'm all for selling duplicate artifacts after they have been properly catalogued and of course unique objects should be in a museum.


WD

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

I'm sure all laws applying to wrecks have a reason, but what about the lucky fool, walking his dog at the beach, run across a relic or coin - takes it home, enjoys displaying it on his bookshelf, not knowing what wreck it came from, or anything - it is just neat to look at, and to hold. Mystery and history in a single object...!

 

[Jason in Enid]

I'm sure all laws applying to wrecks have a reason, but what about the lucky fool, walking his dog at the beach, run across a relic or coin - takes it home, enjoys displaying it on his bookshelf, not knowing what wreck it came from, or anything - it is just neat to look at, and to hold. Mystery and history in a single object...!

Alexander will still call you a pirate, and looter and a thief.

 

[Alexandre]

If you are a real archaeologist, you cannot sell stuff. That's for people like Margaret Rule.

There are lots of archaeologists who don’t publish or have their work conserved, displayed or accessible to the public. It not always their fault as funding is not always available. That way selling what is legal tender, a commodity like collectable coins makes sense.

 

[Alexandre]

No, I wont. I will only do that if you ransack cultural sites to make a living out of it, be it by selling stuff, or, usually, by milking gullible investors out of their money.

Alexander will still call you a pirate, and looter and a thief.

 

[Magoopeter]

It’s always difficult on these sorts of forums.
I must admit I don’t know Margaret’s involvement on these sorts of projects & usually things get said out of context.
Margaret might have been an advisor but doesn’t necessarily have control of what becomes of say artefacts or whether reports get written.
I know others has advised on projects on guns & it’s easy to get tarnished if the project isn’t whiter than white.
For example, it could be said that your advising treasure hunters on this site and suppling maps and information on Historical shipwreck sites, it is as easy as that.
It’s been noted by others in your world of Archaeology what you have said about Margaret rule.
As for me I’m a treasure hunter for sure, but I believe that all wrecks should be salvage using archaeology and recording everything we can, also publishing reports and making all information available to the public.
It gives provenance to the artefacts and makes coins and bullion more valuable and there is a bigger benefit in the form of a learning resource.
We all have rights to the heritage and history of shipwrecks but not to physical remains that belongs to someone else, the owner.
I’ve never known any archaeologist who sold anything from a shipwreck.

 

[eyemustdigtreasure]

I know more than many treasure hunters, who do NOT sell their Finds,
but some of the history is lost, when each little bit is taken, never recorded
for the archaeologists AND the public to understand and enjoy seeing...,
which is the dilemma that we can all recognize....

 

[Jason in Enid]

I know more than many treasure hunters, who do NOT sell their Finds,
but some of the history is lost, when each little bit is taken, never recorded
for the archaeologists AND the public to understand and enjoy seeing...,
which is the dilemma that we can all recognize....

90% of all modern "archaeology" is nothing more than academic crap that adds ZERO to our knowledge base. The demand to excavate and record the minutia of events that are already part of the historical record is just the next crop of university students wanting to get their name known.