My long dead uncle gave it to me.....

[bell47]

Has anyone ever found something of value(or not) while diving a wreck and could not claim it due to state laws? Some states such as Maine say that everything over 50 years old is property of the state. SO my question is if a person were to find something in a state where the state says they own it but won't recover it or won't let a dive recover it, what do you do? They won't let you have it and they don't want it? It will eventually rot away and no one will ever enjoy seeing it. So lets say you found a cannon, and recovered it. Would you take it somewhere that wouldn't ask questions to preserve it? Where would that be? What would it cost? Could you do it yourself? If ever approached by the "authorities" how well does the excuse "my dead uncle bought it somewhere out west and gave it to me", work? How can they prove any different? What if it was more valuable like gold/silver coins? Would them being from an unknown wreck increase any value they have? What about something with little value like a cannon ball? Also, what if approached by the marine patrol and you have a underwater metal detector in the water or on board what are some good excuses that they can't do anything about? Would a metal detector in sight give them justable cause to search a vessle? Now, before the lectures start, I like and want to be a law abiding citizen, but some of these state laws are bull crap! What would ya'll do? Oh, yeah, this is purely hypothetical!!!!

 

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[Narked1]

Bell47,
All of the questions that you ask in your post are good ones. However, sometime in the past I was chastised on this forum (deservedly so) for explaining how I got around certain rules and laws when it comes to recovering an artifact. As such, I would advise caution in the questions that you ask. These kinds of questions are better left to private e-mails or phone conversations. One never knows who is reading this forum, or what the repercussions of answering your questions will be or by who. Of course, this is all just hypothetically speaking anyway so it really doesn't matter does it........

 

[bell47]

Bell47,
All of the questions that you ask in your post are good ones. However, sometime in the past I was chastised on this forum (deservedly so) for explaining how I got around certain rules and laws when it comes to recovering an artifact. As such, I would advise caution in the questions that you ask. These kinds of questions are better left to private e-mails or phone conversations. One never knows who is reading this forum, or what the repercussions of answering your questions will be or by who. Of course, this is all just hypothetically speaking anyway so it really doesn't matter does it........

O.K. guys I've gotten similar PM's too. I(we) have NOT recovered anything! We may have (or may have NOT) stubled across an old ship where artifacts could be found. We have just hit some legal walls. There legal ways around every law on the books. No lecture's on right or wrong, please. Just the facts, thanks. Believe me, if we found something significant, and were doing something shady, no one here would know of it. Hopefully if it is of historical value we can get some legal help to put it in a place where everyone can see it.

 

[CaribbeanDiver]

It is insane. I have an old article from the 80's where it talked about found treasure and it is titled "Saved from the ocean floor". That is how people used to think of it, and it is the truth. Now we just have the greed of those in charge, causing anything not shiny to rot on the ocean floor.

I would bet a lawsuit would work. Sue the government to preserve it themselves, or let us do it. If anyone has been denied a permit, let me know, maybe we can go down this road...

You can get any preservation done by Endless Summer

http://endlesssummer.us/index2.htm

 

[CaribbeanDiver]

Is that how you solicit new business? You need some serious tact and marketing training.

I will do it for you and improve your sales. PM me for pricing.

(Pretty ridiculous, isn't it.)

 

[bradyboy]

Whats up with this
I see two vultures prying on an innocent question/ issue, but you seek profit from helping a fellow treasurnet member
Where here for a reason, as a group that respects and protects our members with a common interest, in support of our hobby, not for financial gain
My opinion is, both of your posts arent cool
nothing wrong with PM advice, but do you really need to put a price tag on simple advice, to sell your services?
Brady

 

[bell47]

Hey guys I really need some info on this. Can we get back to the topic?

 

[ScubaDude]

You take the time and go through the proper channels and get things in place where you can legally recover it, and have your other ducks in a row so to speak with respect to conservation. If your unable to do these things on your own, partner up with someone that can. If you can't, leave it there.

 

[wallycoz]

Unfortunately, State and some Federal Laws are designed to turn a hard working searcher into a thief! Ok, I can hear the comments comming NOW!!!!!

The laws are well meaning - Preserve the heritage for future generations and so on... And, I agree! For the most part, that is... But, when a governmental body refuses to assist (in more ways than just one) or even allow the proper recovery and preservation of a historically important piece of history, with or without
"treasure", who the hell do they think they are? Do they really think that leaving it on the bottom is helping to preserve it for the future?

And, if a site should have any REAL economical promise for the State, you will receive NOTHING for all your hard work and research! If you find a single 200 year old gold coin, the government wants nothing to do with it! But, if you find enough to find a footlocker, lookout! The only one you will get to keep is the one you steal and never tell anyone about!!!

Let's face it, we could fight this battle on any forum and we would still LOSE!!! we need to fight it at the State and Local levels. Each and every one of us must do our part.

The bottom line is the fact that it is a very personal decision you and you alone must make when the time comes! Do you pat yourself on the back for doing a great job of research and for finding it, and then walk away? Or do you break laws that would send you to jail for years and have you lose everything you own by taking some of it with you!

The choice is yours - and so are the consequences!

What would you decide? Don't post - just THINK ABOUT IT!!

Wallycoz

 

[wreckdiver1715]

I have contemplated this dilemma for several years myself. First let me say that I don't agree with the illeagle pillaging of an old wreck in state waters. I understand it, but can not condone it.
Yes the state makes it difficult if not impossible for the average Joe diver to claim salvage rights to a wreck. Not only do they require an archaeologist on your staff, but you also have to show them that you have the technical expertise, experience, equipment and financial resources to properly document, recover and preserve the wreck and the artifacts recovered. Then you compound the problem because the wreck is within an environmentally sensitive and protected refuge.
These are all legitimate and justifiable requirements from the state, wether the state is Maine, Texas (the most restrictive), or Florida. Well lets face it, that eliminates the vast majority of folks that I know and dive with, myself included from being able to even sit down with the state and ask for a search permit, let alone a recovery permit.
ScubaDude has hit the hammer on the head, the only option is to sit down with an experienced company of professional treasure salvors with all your research, and to negotiate a deal. However, until you have a signed written agreement I would not reveal the exact location and would edit out of your research certain key pieces of information.
I would also recommend employing a good attorney (though most attorneys belong on the bottom of the ocean any way), who specializes in salvage law, and preferably one who has worked with the state on similar cases.

Good luck

Tom