My neighbor has a large collection of treasure coins (1715 fleet, Atocha, etc.) with a certificate of authenticity from Gulfstream Rarities. They are all mounted in a frame. He recently had them appraised and the appraiser said they are all fakes. This company is still in business and sells their coins on Ebay. How can they get away with this? Could the appraiser be wrong?
Well someones wrong thats for sure. I didn't find any complaints to the BBB about the company which is located in Deerfield Beach FL. It looks like a guy named Terry Sullivan is the appraiser for the company. Give them a call and see what they say.
Gulfstream Rarities Inc 1717 SW 1st Way #30 Deerfield Beach, FL 33441-6794 954-360-9131.
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Thats funny, a Google search lists their address as an apartment in Delray Beach: http://www.i-rate.org/rating.php?id=62423.
A Corp. search lists no such corporation in Florida. Do you know anything else about them?
"Welcome to the world of Gulfstream Rarities, your premier source for collectibles. Since 1990 we have dedicated ourselves to creating collectibles programs for large organizations nationwide. Now these items are available to the public. Please take the opportunity to browse through our collectibles and discover a world of adventure through rare coins and currency, old stocks and bonds, golf memorabilia and many unusual stock market related gifts."
Thats funny, a Google search lists their address as an apartment in Delray Beach: http://www.i-rate.org/rating.php?id=62423.
A Corp. search lists no such corporation in Florida. Do you know anything else about them?
I'm sorry my last post was out of date. You are correct, they have not been a "corporation" for many years now it seems. Here is some more info.-http://tinyurl.com/2ftq7kt
DOWN WITH AMERICAN DIGGERS, SAY NO TO SPIKE TV! THEY MAKE ALL OF US LOOK BAD!
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do." Mark Twain
"A handful of common sense is worth a bushel of learning." Unknown
It has Terry Sullivan listed as an officer of the Corp. I guess he went out on his own with Gulfstream Rarities Inc., since he is the only one listed in the documents and articles of Incorporation. Now we need to find out why he isn't still in business (bogus authentications?)or if he is, with whom or both.
DOWN WITH AMERICAN DIGGERS, SAY NO TO SPIKE TV! THEY MAKE ALL OF US LOOK BAD!
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did do." Mark Twain
"A handful of common sense is worth a bushel of learning." Unknown
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Re: Gulfstream Rarities
No huge problems from the pictures, but obviously the resolution does not allow close analysis. If someone was going to "fake" an Atocha coin they certainly would use a better master than that. The low grade ones were sold in bulk quantities by the Fishers without certs, so I suspect it is real.
I bought a couple coins from Mel Fishers Atocha site. These were facsimiles that were minted from the silver bars recovered from the Atocha and normally come in a gold bezel for the kids. However, I have come across several of these "coins" that had been removed from their bezel and were being passed off as real on eBay.
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Re: Gulfstream Rarities
Florida Profit Corporation
GULFSTREAM RARITIES, INC.
Filing Information
Document Number L80259
FEI/EIN Number 650306965
Date Filed 06/14/1990
State FL
Status INACTIVE
Last Event ADMIN DISSOLUTION FOR ANNUAL REPORT
Event Date Filed 09/21/2001
Event Effective Date NONE
Principal Address
1717 S.W. 1ST WAY
#30
DEERFIELD BEACH FL 33441
Changed 05/01/1996
Mailing Address
1717 S.W. 1ST WAY
#30
DEERFIELD BEACH FL 33441
Changed 05/01/1996
Registered Agent Name & Address
SULLIVAN, TERRIE L.
4285 N.W. 2ND AVE.
BOCA RATON FL 33431 US
Officer/Director Detail
Name & Address
Title D
SULLIVAN, TERRIE L.
4385 NW 2ND AVE
BOCA RATON FL
Annual Reports
Report Year Filed Date
1998 03/30/1998
1999 04/16/1999
2000 05/02/2000
I bought a collection of treasure coins off of ebay all with coins in one frame with Gulfstreams Rarities certificates and when I looked at them closley most of the looked fake to me...
I also, had a small coin that dated to the time of Columbus that was again framed with A Gulfsteams certificate and always wondered why it was so thin and had a strange color to it...looking back I strongly believe that it was just piece of tin that was made to look like the real thing...just my two cents worth...
I am not surprised...there was a grouping of 3 cobs sold the other day (coincidentally from the same locale under a different name) the seller may well have been duped and suspected they were fake and resold them....I think the coins came from this group...These days I choose my battles and avoid questionable deals...All I can say is...be very careful and request opinions prior to making an offer.
Thats for sure, When ever I see a Gulfstream certificate I can't believe that they are in good standing with the BBB...I run when ever I see one based on my two bad experiences! I have no proof that that were not legit they just didn't "look right".
I've read this thread before and since it has started up again, thought I'd add my observations on/experience with these Gulfstream Rarities collections and "Atocha" pieces.
Firstly, everything you see from this (seemingly defunct) outfit is framed. Sometimes they have multiple (usually 5) coins in one huge frame... sometimes it was just a single coin in frame or as the initial poster showed, a collection of individually-framed coins. Almost all of the framed collections or singles I've seen tend to be comprised of the following wrecks:
Atocha - 4R or 8R pieces *** see below
Vliegenthart - Mexico cob 4R or 8R
Hollandia - ducaton
1715 Fleet - usually a "half real"
Bredenhof - duit (they call it "doit")
Admiral Gardner - East India Co. 10 cash copper
Regarding Gulfstream's Atocha pieces... These have a "Treasure Salvors" COA with them, whereas the coins from other wrecks seem to only have Gulfstream's own COAs. This sheet is almost like the normal Fisher certs, BUT differs slightly. The easy way to spot one of these is the semi-cursive looking "NUESTRA SENORA DE ATOCHA", which is clearly distinct from the block print version on the normal Fisher sheets.
The other odd thing about these "Atocha" pieces is that (most of the ones I've seen) have Fisher-like cert numbers given to them... BUT these don't match up with what the Fisher database site shows!! Yes, somewhat fishy... Now, one would think that if Gulfstream was issuing certs with Treasure Salvors' name on them, there would have to have been some sort of arrangement between the companies. This knowledge, I am not privy too...
Regarding the actual "Atocha" coins... Haven't had one in hand, but from the ones I've looked at online, I have seen a few which I find slightly questionable... though nothing where you'd say without a doubt "that's fake" or "that can't be Atocha".
Now, here is my feedback on the 5-coin set I picked up on the cheap a while back (see attached photo). Consisted of:
-- "Hollandia" ducaton
-- "Vliegenthart" cob
-- 1715 Fleet half real
-- Bredenhof duit (doit)
-- Admiral Gardner East India coin
General note: I bought the lot to take it apart... I don't do framed. The problem here was that A) The certs are not fastened in place, they are glued right to the cardstock and B) (more infuriating) The coins themselves were glued on with the stickiest substance known to man. Took an hour to acetone it all off the coins, and I ended up with sloppily cut-out COAs. If you are looking at one of these sets and were thinking you'd remove it from the frame - don't bother, not worth it!
Regarding the coins... The two cheapies in the set (Admiral Gardner, Bredenhof duit) seem perfectly correct & legit. The 1715 Fleet piece seems legit also... however it isn't a half-real, but actually a low-grade 1R fragment. Eh, close enough I guess. I've seen this error before on some of the "official" Fisher Cobb Coin Co. holders for small pieces.
The two $$ coins:
Hollandia ducaton - Big zonk here!! Fairly certain it's fake. I'm really not terribly familiar with ducatons (I know the lion "dog" dollar a bit)... but way underweight (even for salvaged), oddly porous, looks/feels/clinks wrong.
Vliegenthart... confusing. Instead of a normal Mexican cob 4R or 8R (which was the most of this ship's cargo, along with some ducatons)... I got a sea-salvaged... Guatemala pillar-type cob 4 reales??!! Have NEVER seen one of these from the Vliegenthart. It's definitely an authentic sea-salvaged piece, but I highly doubt it's from this wreck.
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Originally Posted by Salvor6
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