$34 for a Reproduction.

[Bigcypresshunter]

A Reproduction cob recently sold on eBay for $34! Go figure. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA:IT&ih=009

[Mackaydon]

Big C:

Here's a link to: Report Problems with Purchase of Reproduction or Fake Antiques and Collectibles

http://collectors.org/Library/Hobby_Protection_Act.asp

Note this link also describes the requirements of the Hobby Protection Act (HPA) that (among other requirements) requires the word "COPY" be incursed into a for sale 'coin'-- with certain minimum specifications. I note no such word on this coin. I'll quickly add that I'm not qualified to judge the authenticity of this coin nor do I suggest this coin is not real. But if it is determined to be a copy, replica, reproduction, etc. then the requirements of the HPA apply.
Don.........

[Bigcypresshunter]

The seller does state that it IS a reproduction after numerous e-mails. Buyers knew it but it still got $34. I thought they were only worth 99cents. I guess the older repros have some value. Some of the older ones do not say COPY.

[Zephyr]

There's a set of 5 of those (in different denominations) you can get for about $12. I have a set, and the molds they are made from are wearing out, as the 'copy' on them is very hard to find (in addition to other wear.) After inspecting my set, I thought to myself that I can make better replicas than that.

[Bigcypresshunter]

There's a set of 5 of those (in different denominations) you can get for about $12. I have a set, and the molds they are made from are wearing out, as the 'copy' on them is very hard to find (in addition to other wear.) After inspecting my set, I thought to myself that I can make better replicas than that.

lol I wonder if the winning bidder is happy.

[Mackaydon]

Zephyr:
The word COPY should be about the last thing to wear off the coin since one legal requirement of the Act is that it be INCUSED into the coin--so that it will not wear off quickly.
Don.....
PS: And it doesn't matter if the coin is old or new, US or foreign; the Act applies to all coin reproductions manufactured for the purpose of resale.

[Zephyr]

I am well aware of HPA and it's requirements, but as I said, the set of replica coins I have (similar to the $34 coin) shows signs that the molds for these coins are wearing out. Raised detail within the mold will wear away, leading to shallower detail, i.e. the word "copy" in the mold is raised, and as it wears away, "copy" disappears as well, as it no longer casts as deeply into the coin surface.

Edit: I have 2 of those 8e coins in my set. One does not have "copy" on it at all, and with the other, "copy" is only partial, with part of it obscured with raised detail, meaning that each coin was from a different mold. If anybody wants to see pics, I can scan and post them.

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sell them on eBay.

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is a site I ran across, My Favorite Fake Coins, Coin Community Forum, on copies, replicas, and counterfeits. Apparently eBay does not allow any of these coins to be sold and will terminate the listing. I guess that is why the seller didnt state it was a replica/copy in the title. http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/t...TOPIC_ID=24863 http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/t...TOPIC_ID=24863

The problem of selling "counterfeit" coins on eBay is a pet peeve of mine. I believe that LEGAL contemporary counterfeit coins should be sold as long as they are properly described. I believe that ILLEGAL counterfeits should be stopped EVEN when the seller will not acknowledge that he/she knows.

Right now eBay says they prohibit all counterfeits, but they will not terminate an auction if the seller disputes the fact that the coin is forged. I have tried many times to get modern made illegal counterfeits terminated but always without success.But eBay will terminate a legal counterfeit if it is PROPERLY DESCRIBED.

I collect counterfeits and eBay's policy is foolish and unevenly enforced. Sellers outside of the US seem to face no restrictions, but US sellers can find their auctions terminated if they indicate copy, replica or fantasy.

It would be far better to require an accurate description - but that is not what eBay wants. They want ZERO policing responsibility. They rely on "Let the Buyer beware", but then allow private auctions so that warnings can not be given.

I guess in the end - MONEY TALKS. QUOTE swamperbob.

[Salvor6]

Zephyr, INCUSED means the word "copy" is stamped on the coin after casting. So it doesn't matter if the mold is worn out. The word copy should be prominent.

[Mackaydon]

Big C:
Swamper Bob's quote of the phrase "legal counterfeit" reads like an oxymoron. To me, it's either 'legal' or 'counterfeit'--which (again to me) has the conotation of deception and fraud. A replica that copies a coin and is manufactured pursuant to the HPA is 'legal' but not a 'counterfeit'.

All sellers, foreign and domestic in the US fall under the umbrella of the HPA. Any coin for sale to HPA standards should be so designated. Any copy not up to HPA standards should be pulled from Ebay--even if the word COPY appears on the coin since it's still 'illegal' if not the original or a "HPA" coin.

Each seller should warrant that the coin is genuine or state that it meets HPA standards; otherwise, it should not get on Ebay. Disclosing that it is neither an original nor does it meet HPA standards is still insufficient language to place the coin for sale. Said differently, it must be an original or pass HPA standards; otherwise, the sale activity of such a coin is illegal under the HPA. That's the way I interpret the law. (my two cents)

Zephyr: Your preaching to the choir. I agree wholeheartedly. The word COPY is the last thing that should be visible on any worn copy if the replica complies with the HPA. Like the designor's initials on a SLQ (incursed), those letters are the last to go via wear. And for others to suggest that a HPA approved replica can be ID-ed even thou the incursed word COPY is gone borders on the ludicrous.
Don....

[Bigcypresshunter]

A clear distinction needs to be drawn between legal and illegal counterfeit coins. Any copy of a former-monetary issue that is no longer legal tender is LEGAL provided it was NOT made OR IMPORTED into the US after the approval of the Hobby Protection Act. Therefore, a counterfeit made say in 1950 of a coin of any date that is no longer legal tender is LEGAL provided it was in the US before 1974. It does not require the word COPY to be stamped on it.

Prior to 1857, many foreign silver coins were legal tender in the US. These coins were counterfeited in the US and elsewhere to an alarming extent. Prior to 1857 those counterfeits were every bit as illegal as a forgery of a Bust Half Dollar. However, after 1857, the foreign silver coins were demonetized. Therfore, a counterfeit Mexican 1842 8R is perfectly legal to own or sell in the US and does not need to be stamped COPY.
QUOTE swamperbob.


This coin, however, is so poorly made that it can hardly be considered a counterfeit, legal or otherwise. It is most likely a replica made before 1974, or the word "COPY" has worn off like Zephyr said.

[Mackaydon]

Big C:
Personally, that makes no sense to me.
In essence, I understand SWAMPBOB's quote to mean that a coin copy could enter the US before 1974 and be legally sold today without complying with the Act, but a copy of the same coin entering into the US after 1974 could not be legally sold without conforming to the Act.
Did I get that right?
If so, then what section of the Act specifically excludes from the requirements of the Act copies of coins entering into the US before 1974 that are being sold today?
Don.....

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big C:
Personally, that makes no sense to me.
In essence, I understand SWAMPBOB's quote to mean that a coin copy could enter the US before 1974 and be legally sold today without complying with the Act, but a copy of the same coin entering into the US after 1974 could not be legally sold without conforming to the Act.
Did I get that right?
If so, then what section of the Act specifically excludes from the requirements of the Act copies of coins entering into the US before 1974 that are being sold today?
Don.....

I assumed pre-74 counterfeits and replicas were grandfathered in. Are you saying that pre-74 replicas are illegal unless "COPY" is stamped on them?

[Mackaydon]

Big C:
I'm saying I have read no exceptions to the Act and seek information if this Act has been amended to exclude coins introduced into the States before
1974 and for sale today. The question of being 'grandfathered in' is valid; I just am unaware of that portion of the Act, or any other related to this issue act, that provides for this 'grandfathered in' concept to apply to the Hobby Act.
Don.....

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big C:
I'm saying I have read no exceptions to the Act and seek information if this Act has been amended to exclude coins introduced into the States before
1974 and for sale today. The question of being 'grandfathered in' is valid; I just am unaware of that portion of the Act, or any other related to this issue act, that provides for this 'grandfathered in' concept to apply to the Hobby Act.
Don.....

I dont see any exceptions in the Act either. You bring up a good point. There are "legal" counterfeits, in my opinion, but I dont know if pre-74 replicas (without the word "COPY") are legal.

[bradyboy]

if you like this fake, try this one for a giggle

http://cgi.ebay.com/Spanish-Gold-Coi...QQcmdZViewItem

[Bigcypresshunter]

if you like this fake, try this one for a giggle

http://cgi.ebay.com/Spanish-Gold-Coi...QQcmdZViewItem

This is a Gold doubloon,or cob...? This coin could be from the Atocha, or some other shipwreck. We do not know the date, nor the authenticity of it,but we do know it is a real Gold coin. We are a third party listing these items, so bid accordingly. YOU ARE BUYING AS IS, ALL SALES FINAL!!! WE DO NOT ACCEPT PAYPAL,OR PERSONAL CHECKS!! WE ONLY ACCEPT US POSTAL MONEY ORDERS !! WE WILL ONLY SHIP THIS WITHIN THE USA !! Feel free to email us any questions you may have before bidding !!!! Take a look at our other item, an Atocha Emerald !!

NO RESERVE !! HIGH BIDDER TAKES IT HOME !!![

It doesnt look like gold. 10 bids, $64, not over yet.

[rgecy]

Its up over $109 now! Are there really people buying these things?

[Bigcypresshunter]

Its being sold by online-auction-listers, a third party listing agent, with a decent 318 sales rating at 99.1%. They claim it to be 4 grams of gold. That's boosting the bids but the pic doesnt look like gold to me.

Meet the seller
Seller: online-auction-listers( 318)
Feedback: 99.1% Positive
Member: since Sep-11-99 in United States


"We do not know the date, nor the authenticity of it,but we do know it is a real Gold coin". quote lister