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  1. #481

    Aug 2017
    567
    665 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lo...ml#post6274597

    I finally had time to finish Esteban, by Dennis Herrick. It was an interesting read. Most of the narrative detailing the disastrous 1528 Panfilo de Narvaez Expedition and the Cabeza de Vaca party survival odyssey to Mexico - both including Esteban - is drawn from numerous earlier sources. Likewise, the Marcos de Niza Cibola Expedition, led by Esteban serving as scout, has been covered by many.

    Herrick points out that scant first-hand mention of Esteban is made in any historical records. Being a slave - essentially a non-human to the Spanish - he is primarily identified as "the negro." His given name is referred to only a few times in the reports, and is usually called Estavanico, a diminished reference. By the time the de Vaca party reached Mexico City in 1536, the three Spaniard survivors were greeted as heros, while Esteban remained a slave.

    When none of the three Spaniards were available to accompany de Niza to Cibola in 1539, Esteban was chosen. The author points out that all reports of Esteban's activities in New Mexico were second-hand at best and wildly inconsistent. Even his reported death at Zuni was unwitnessed, but inferred. Some Zuni oral traditions maintain that he was killed, but other Zuni sources claim he was not. It's alleged that Esteban, with the help of Zunis and other Natives who admired him, but not the Spanish, conspired to fake his death and relieve him of his slave status.

    No mention was made in the book of any resolution to the Cibola rumors or any gold found during the de Niza expedition. The gist was that Esteban took advantage of an opportunity to go Native.
    And how big was the cross

    Here is a cool tune...Too bad they don't play the bowl anymore... Retirement gets boring... They used to sell it out every year...

    Ed T
    Hillbilly Prince likes this.

  2. #482

    May 2019
    204
    187 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    some of the paper maps are intriguing such as the fish map and the perfil map but alot of the maps floating around are probably bogus


    True as is the info on the PMS. Many appear to be made by people who either were leading the reader to much of nothing, just their own delusions or they failed drawing and map-making 101, or both.

    A side note, since we posted a donation tag on our we have never linked it, We thought, very early on about an investor, and the tag was to see if we might get someone who was a heavy hitter. We soon cooled to that I idea early on, It never felt right to me. We have not taken We do not need or want any mulligans. Often info on this site has been very useful, that we gladly take in, and appreciate the shared knowledge. Hope everyone has a safe weekend, I am l out the door for Cleveland, for tomorrow nights Browns-Rams game in Cleveland, front row seats on the wall in the Dog Pound. Thanks, Jeff.

  3. #483

    May 2019
    204
    187 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Meant to say the PMSs are legit Many other maps another story. Also left out donation tag TAG ON OUR "site" has been removed. Every rubble and skinned knees are ours.

  4. #484
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,777
    6393 times
    Quote Originally Posted by arcana-exploration View Post
    Meant to say the PMSs are legit Many other maps another story. Also left out donation tag TAG ON OUR "site" has been removed. Every rubble and skinned knees are ours.
    those stone maps are nothing but doorstops...only a greenhorn would waste time trying to decipher them...they only lead to financial ruin , divorce and misery ..every dutch hunter has had their turn with them and finally came to the conclusion they are worthless..after they had lost everything they own....you are trying awful hard to convince me you aren't looking for investors...but i don't buy it

  5. #485
    us
    j

    Dec 2012
    wisconsin
    whites mxt
    228
    400 times
    Prospecting
    I am not trying to argue. I have not read their site. I am just curious as to what is so wrong with having investors. Hypothetically speaking here: If one were to see enough proof (actually see and hold said proof) and felt compelled to financially assist in a search. where is the fault in that. (I am not interested, this is hypothetical)
    Most likely the financier is going to get frustrated at some point when no progress is made. Even more likey IF the searcher did find something, they may not share. greed is always a problem. however isn't the investor also greedy to a point if they are willing to invest for profit .. In the end they both usually fail together.
    But sometimes thats the price of dreaming so big.
    I don't know anything. i was just curious. sorry. dont get mad.

  6. #486
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,597
    8772 times
    Quote Originally Posted by dredgernaut View Post
    I am not trying to argue. I have not read their site. I am just curious as to what is so wrong with having investors. Hypothetically speaking here: If one were to see enough proof (actually see and hold said proof) and felt compelled to financially assist in a search. where is the fault in that. (I am not interested, this is hypothetical)
    Most likely the financier is going to get frustrated at some point when no progress is made. Even more likey IF the searcher did find something, they may not share. greed is always a problem. however isn't the investor also greedy to a point if they are willing to invest for profit .. In the end they both usually fail together.
    But sometimes thats the price of dreaming so big.
    I don't know anything. i was just curious. sorry. dont get mad.
    OK now I am raging mad dredgernaut! I am kidding and your point is correct, really there should not be anything wrong with seeking financial backers. Heck there is even a term for it in prospecting known as "grubstaking" and most of the western states have laws concerning grubstaking, spelling out the rights of the investor and the prospector. Heck I am always looking for a financial investor for some future project, unfortunately few investors want to risk their money on such long odds of finding a treasure. Plus I don't like to give out too many details to someone that doesn't have a vested interest.

    The trouble is that there have been SO many con men and frauds and especially concerning the LDM, Peralta Stones and the Superstition mountains it automatically raises red flags when anyone hints at wanting money for some hidden mine or treasure located there. Heck one guy made quite a career out of defrauding investors and blackmailing as well, Crazy Jake.

    Anyway agreed and amen it is perfectly okay to seek investors, just need to be 100% honest about it in my opinion.

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  7. #487
    us
    j

    Dec 2012
    wisconsin
    whites mxt
    228
    400 times
    Prospecting
    thanks. agreed and understood. just thought i would ask

  8. #488
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,777
    6393 times
    Quote Originally Posted by dredgernaut View Post
    thanks. agreed and understood. just thought i would ask
    the first red flag would be that why would 5 guys that have already found the mine need investors?...according to them they found it...done deal....and if they did need investors how would they pay the investors back...the mine is in a wilderness and they cant do anything with it...so there is no profit...how would the investors recoup their investment?.if they think they are going to get rich writing a book they are wrong...alot of people around here have written books and are still broke.....like roy said..those stone maps only draw con men to our city ...every time one of them rolls through here they cause nothing but trouble

  9. #489

    May 2019
    204
    187 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    the first red flag would be that why would 5 guys that have already found the mine need investors?...according to them they found it...done deal....and if they did need investors how would they pay the investors back...the mine is in a wilderness and they cant do anything with it...so there is no profit...how would the investors recoup their investment?.if they think they are going to get rich writing a book they are wrong...alot of people around here have written books and are still broke.....like roy said..those stone maps only draw con men to our city ...every time one of them rolls through here they cause nothing but trouble
    We are self-funded and have been since the beginning. All of us being successful business owners in our own businesses, early on we thought it might be good business, to bring in a partner, but we realized we did not need any partners, we have enough, of our own money why to bring in an outsider. The answer was simple no investors, we are a tight, group and we all have, more than enough disposable income so why risk bring in an outsider, that may not fit in. We do not owe anybody and do not want or need to answer to anyone. It sounds like other than Bob Schuss, everyone else looking in Arizona cannot grubstake themselves. We are frugal and have been successful all our lives so we have the means to do whatever we please, I do not care what you believe, it appears you are fixated with money, people who have it do not obsess on it, our pockets are deep enough, and we choose to go it alone. I guess if you have not made it, it is hard to believe, that there are people out there that can find their own way, and do not need aa village.

  10. #490
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,777
    6393 times
    Quote Originally Posted by arcana-exploration View Post
    We are self-funded and have been since the beginning. All of us being successful business owners in our own businesses, early on we thought it might be good business, to bring in a partner, but we realized we did not need any partners, we have enough, of our own money why to bring in an outsider. The answer was simple no investors, we are a tight, group and we all have, more than enough disposable income so why risk bring in an outsider, that may not fit in. We do not owe anybody and do not want or need to answer to anyone. It sounds like other than Bob Schuss, everyone else looking in Arizona cannot grubstake themselves. We are frugal and have been successful all our lives so we have the means to do whatever we please, I do not care what you believe, it appears you are fixated with money, people who have it do not obsess on it, our pockets are deep enough, and we choose to go it alone. I guess if you have not made it, it is hard to believe, that there are people out there that can find their own way, and do not need aa village.
    you said in another post that you were out of funds...now you say you have deep pockets..which is it?...i have nothing against rich people....i just don't like con men
    dredgernaut and PotBelly Jim like this.

  11. #491

    May 2019
    204
    187 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    you said in another post that you were out of funds...now you say you have deep pockets..which is it?...i have nothing against rich people....i just don't like con men
    As usual, you misrepresent, what I stated. ! What I stated in an earlier thread, was that at the beginning of this whole venture, was that about 4 or so years ago we all agreed that we would each contribute, a set amount of personal time and money to this project, and when we reached, the agreed amount in both personal money and time spent, that if we had not reached our goal of discovery, we would not invest any more time or money, to the effort. What we did not realize was 4 years ago was that we would be so close, to our goal, and that we would need one more push to get all the way up. This now left us with a tuff decision. Being business, men we wanted to succeed being so close, but also not use any more disposable income. Then a while back Capt Dave hit an Ohio scratch off for a Million dollars. He wanted a team meeting, so we meet for a few brewski's and he proposed, that it was fate that he won a bunch of money, and likewise fate that we suppose to go on this last trip. He proposed, that we would not be breaking our original agreement if he underwrote the trip, with a loan to Arcana. Also that any money that came in from the book would repay him. Everyone has a piece of the book, but the first money would go to him, to cover the interest-free loan. Everyone had to agree. Rodger made the point that we would reach our goal if we could get all the way up, whatever was or was not up there and that our story shared in the book, would be more or less complete, otherwise to get that close and stop would make for a an uneventful ending and sort of failer and that the book would do better, if we reached our goal. We had unfinished business, and we absolutely now knew how to get up there. So we voted, and all agreed, that this keeps the original agreement intact, and also let's finish the project with our own money. We had come this far on our own dime, let's finish that way. The team all said they would have an empty feeling if we did not get up, getting up there had become a very important goal, like Rodger said even if there was just a taco stand up there.

    He which icon do you use on this site to upload something? Copy and paste?

  12. #492
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    610
    1770 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    There are 2 things that will set-off a lot of folks in AZ: telling them you've found the LDM and bringing up the subject of needing just a bit more money...or trying to sell a map to the LDM.

    Any time the subject of maps or money comes up, I run in the other direction. People are smart and are still coming up with new scams and still burning people to this day. One of the best things I think guys like Tom K. and Greg Davis ever did (among many others) was publish all the maps they could get their hands on...if someone wants to sell maps now, they have to come up with new ones people don't have to buy fake maps anymore, they can get as many as they want.
    dredgernaut, sdcfia and alan m like this.

  13. #493

    Aug 2007
    1,518
    486 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    LMAO you got to be joking .the Gonzales map Bob showed Wayne Tuttle in 2015 was a real map to the mine ,. but bob had no idea how to translate that map and Wayne went off with out a clue ... if you want to find something out there you need a seer ... and your talking to one of the best . I saw that Gonzales map and read it in a few seconds ... its not the maps fault, its none of you know the correctly way to translate it ...I have ask Wayne and Frank and their team to joint expedition 7 . if they say no . I will wait .. its not going anywhere soon ...lol

  14. #494
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,720
    7154 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    There are 2 things that will set-off a lot of folks in AZ: telling them you've found the LDM and bringing up the subject of needing just a bit more money...or trying to sell a map to the LDM.

    Any time the subject of maps or money comes up, I run in the other direction. People are smart and are still coming up with new scams and still burning people to this day. One of the best things I think guys like Tom K. and Greg Davis ever did (among many others) was publish all the maps they could get their hands on...if someone wants to sell maps now, they have to come up with new ones people don't have to buy fake maps anymore, they can get as many as they want.
    Yeah, it always brings me to the question: why in the world would anyone believe that a genuine treasure map would ever be available to any and all of us hopeful mutts?

    Re the current PSM discussion: OK, just quit talking about what you're going to do and go do it.
    PotBelly Jim likes this.
    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  15. #495
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    610
    1770 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Blindbowman View Post
    LMAO you got to be joking .the Gonzales map Bob showed Wayne Tuttle in 2015 was a real map to the mine ,. but bob had no idea how to translate that map and Wayne went off with out a clue ... if you want to find something out there you need a seer ... and your talking to one of the best . I saw that Gonzales map and read it in a few seconds ... its not the maps fault, its none of you know the correctly way to translate it ...I have ask Wayne and Frank and their team to joint expedition 7 . if they say no . I will wait .. its not going anywhere soon ...lol
    Now that you bring it up...you're right, if I ever looked for the LDM I would rather have a "seer" over one of those fake maps Best of luck to you BB, hope you find it.
    sdcfia likes this.

 

 
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