Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[Crow]

These ongoing changing allegiances in the arm wrestle over global resources trade and power. Has been going on for thousands of years regardless of the culture. Even today in the present climate of fear and disunity treasure are being hidden either through fear of future or proceeds of crime. So world events through history is the driver for hidden treasures. Learning the driver for each era helps you relate what existed back in the relevant era.

There are many treasures hidden out there. Many in places built over by urbanization.

Crow

 

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[tintin_treasure]

These ongoing changing allegiances in the arm wrestle over global resources trade and power. Has been going on for thousands of years regardless of the culture. Even today in the present climate of fear and disunity treasure are being hidden either through fear of future or proceeds of crime. So world events through history is the driver for hidden treasures. Learning the driver for each era helps you relate what existed back in the relevant era.

There are many treasures hidden out there. Many in places built over by urbanization.

Crow

True Crow....the fog of war and uncertainty has been the perfect camouflage for grabbing treasures or hiding them...even in recent history when regimes like Saddam and Gadaffi were toppled , some may have been busy in treasure hiding or grabbing when the overwhelming majority were either fighting a loosing war or were just following the news of the unfolding events...there are always the cunning few who see the potential of treasure in any chaotic political and social unrest...

TT

 

[Crow]

True Crow....the fog of war and uncertainty has been the perfect camouflage for grabbing treasures or hiding them...even in recent history when regimes like Saddam and Gadaffi were toppled , some may have been busy in treasure hiding or grabbing when the overwhelming majority were either fighting a loosing war or were just following the news of the unfolding events...there are always the cunning few who see the potential of treasure in any chaotic political and social unrest...

TT

I can almost guarantee even as I type people somewhere some place are hiding money gold silver either from proceeds of crime. tax evasion or because of fear of economic or political climate.

Crow

 

[Crow]

I should add that today tax evaders, criminals and organization hide illicit funds in artificial currencies like bit coins. So the nature of hiding treasure is changing. However gold silver and diamonds are still used as black currency.

Crow

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Tintin, The name of that movie is "The flying Tigers" with, I believe. John Wayne and a beautiful American born Chinese girl named "Suzie Wong"

 

[tintin_treasure]

Tintin, The name of that movie is "The flying Tigers" with, I believe. John Wayne and a beautiful American born Chinese girl named "Suzie Wong"

Thanks Senor Don Jose....could be,,,as their story was famous i can imagine many other movies could have been made as well....as many movies have come and gone in the past decades things get mixed up...

TT

 

[Crow]

Hello All

When it comes to treasure careful what you wish for.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/new-twist-in-battle-for-ownership-of-buried-cash-found-at-runaway-bay-worksite-qld-news/3f70d827-0a54-4a8c-8764-afe1b51f5a56









Crow

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Tintin, The top scorer was 19 Japanese aircraft. They were very real. They were treated rather shabbily by the USAC when the Us entered into China and too over in WWII. They were mercenaries.. I found out what a mercenary was when Castor's agent signed me up to fly PBY's from Yucatan to Cuban territorial waters during the Cuban revolution. Interesting story there, I'll have to post it someday.

 

[tintin_treasure]

Tintin, The top scorer was 19 Japanese aircraft. They were very real. They were treated rather shabbily by the USAC when the Us entered into China and too over in WWII. They were mercenaries.. I found out what a mercenary was when Castor's agent signed me up to fly PBY's from Yucatan to Cuban territorial waters during the Cuban revolution. Interesting story there, I'll have to post it someday.

thanks Senhor don Jose...You really have witnessed 20th century history first hand ..quiet amazing!!

TT

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello All

When it comes to treasure careful what you wish for.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/new-twist-in-battle-for-ownership-of-buried-cash-found-at-runaway-bay-worksite-qld-news/3f70d827-0a54-4a8c-8764-afe1b51f5a56









Crow

Thanks Crow..that is quite an interesting saga and I wonder how it develops in the courts...but whatever the case the person who hid it did not do a good job as wrapping paper money in newspaper and putting it in plastic bag was quite a poor move as we can see from the photos...he should have at least used rolls of aluminium foils for wrapping ,,,

TT

 

[releventchair]

Hello All

When it comes to treasure careful what you wish for.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/new-twist-in-battle-for-ownership-of-buried-cash-found-at-runaway-bay-worksite-qld-news/3f70d827-0a54-4a8c-8764-afe1b51f5a56









Crow

No one said anything about an off/ musty smell on some certain currency when accepting it once upon a time.
I debated about adding some lavender to change the scent , but then the lavender scent might have been noticed....

Best not to get in a position of contested possession.
Possession alone , even uncontested; can be enough of a problem sometimes.

 

[Crow]

No one said anything about an off/ musty smell on some certain currency when accepting it once upon a time.
I debated about adding some lavender to change the scent , but then the lavender scent might have been noticed....

Best not to get in a position of contested possession.
Possession alone , even uncontested; can be enough of a problem sometimes.

The only winners from this case was legal profession.

The 2 finders was fired from their jobs for obeying the law by their employer the contractor who has a claim against the find. Got to be travesty there. The original depositors of treasure a traveling Chinese chef was clearly avoiding tax or involve in some illicit activities before he died. The relative who sold the property under law of abandonment when a property is sold all remaining abandoned possessions becomes the property of the new owner. As the seller in vacating the property has due diligence to remove his possessions from that property. There is a former tenant who claim it was his. Why would some one renting a property leave half a million in money in a property and never take iot with him? So in effect he is just scammer hoping to get a cut.

So who really deserves the money?

If I was the judge.

The two employees of the Contractor was the finders and they Obeyed the law and reported the find. And should be rewarded for honesty. The current property owner as he had legal ownership of the property. So 50% to finders and 50% to the current legal landholder.

Those who should not get a cent.

1. The tenant. Clearly he has no legal claim just because he lived there once many years ago.

2. The contractor who fired his 2 employees for reporting the find. His intent was to steal money without reporting the find.

3. The previous owner of the property who made no attempt to recover the treasure before selling the property.

4. The descendant of the alleged person who buried the money because no effort at the time of persons death was made to search for such money.

However such legal wrangles can be lengthy and frustrating. Buy the time legal costs are taken out then tax taken out? The poor 2 employees who did the right thing according to law who lost their jobs and income as a consequence. Will be more out of pocket for the pleasure of making the discovery.

Sadly just another case of greed overriding commonsense.

Crow

 

[releventchair]

The only winners from this case was legal profession.

The 2 finders was fired from their jobs for obeying the law by their employer the contractor who has a claim against the find. Got to be travesty there. The original depositors of treasure a traveling Chinese chef was clearly avoiding tax or involve in some illicit activities before he died. The relative who sold the property under law of abandonment when a property is sold all remaining abandoned possessions becomes the property of the new owner. As the seller in vacating the property has due diligence to remove his possessions from that property. There is a former tenant who claim it was his. Why would some one renting a property leave half a million in money in a property and never take iot with him? So in effect he is just scammer hoping to get a cut.

So who really deserves the money?

If I was the judge.

The two employees of the Contractor was the finders and they Obeyed the law and reported the find. And should be rewarded for honesty. The current property owner as he had legal ownership of the property. So 50% to finders and 50% to the current legal landholder.

Those who should not get a cent.

1. The tenant. Clearly he has no legal claim just because he lived there once many years ago.

2. The contractor who fired his 2 employees for reporting the find. His intent was to steal money without reporting the find.

3. The previous owner of the property who made no attempt to recover the treasure before selling the property.

4. The descendant of the alleged person who buried the money because no effort at the time of persons death was made to search for such money.

However such legal wrangles can be lengthy and frustrating. Buy the time legal costs are taken out then tax taken out? The poor 2 employees who did the right thing according to law who lost their jobs and income as a consequence. Will be more out of pocket for the pleasure of making the discovery.

Sadly just another case of greed overriding commonsense.

Crow

The workers certainly got the short end of the stick on that one...

Lost and found items turned in should go to the finder if unclaimed (proven legit claims and claimants thank you..) within a reasonable amount of time. 30-90 days maybe. Exceptions for waters beyond snorkling depth on non private waters in wreck recoveries , but if a recovery was abandon by a nation more than a year(allowing seasonal work delays , as long as it's worked each year ,it's being worked.) , that too should be fair game for the finders.
(Which is not going to happen here anyways in the great lakes in regions where "preserves" protect wrecks. I understand they don't all need to be stripped. But a hundred year old(vs recent bank robbery with exact count and denominations and dates on record ect.) keg of coins a quarter mile away is/should be no more the states than the citizen recovering it. Till court time anyways...)

But when something has any great value , the powers that be with legal teams on payroll already are quick to hold their hands out and scowl.
Right or wrong goes out the window. But I'm bigger than you because my lawyer can beat up your lawyer. And if not , I can keep legal (yep ,legal) wrangling going on till your expense is less than the contested item(s). Or you tire. Or something else persuades you to lose interest.

There's treasure known and unrecovered for the very reason of it being fruitless to expect the finder or recover-er to hold a crumb out of water hardly.
Cuba for example. No offence to it's general residents.

 

[tintin_treasure]

The only winners from this case was legal profession.

The 2 finders was fired from their jobs for obeying the law by their employer the contractor who has a claim against the find. Got to be travesty there. The original depositors of treasure a traveling Chinese chef was clearly avoiding tax or involve in some illicit activities before he died. The relative who sold the property under law of abandonment when a property is sold all remaining abandoned possessions becomes the property of the new owner. As the seller in vacating the property has due diligence to remove his possessions from that property. There is a former tenant who claim it was his. Why would some one renting a property leave half a million in money in a property and never take iot with him? So in effect he is just scammer hoping to get a cut.

So who really deserves the money?

If I was the judge.

The two employees of the Contractor was the finders and they Obeyed the law and reported the find. And should be rewarded for honesty. The current property owner as he had legal ownership of the property. So 50% to finders and 50% to the current legal landholder.

Those who should not get a cent.

1. The tenant. Clearly he has no legal claim just because he lived there once many years ago.

2. The contractor who fired his 2 employees for reporting the find. His intent was to steal money without reporting the find.

3. The previous owner of the property who made no attempt to recover the treasure before selling the property.

4. The descendant of the alleged person who buried the money because no effort at the time of persons death was made to search for such money.

However such legal wrangles can be lengthy and frustrating. Buy the time legal costs are taken out then tax taken out? The poor 2 employees who did the right thing according to law who lost their jobs and income as a consequence. Will be more out of pocket for the pleasure of making the discovery.

Sadly just another case of greed overriding commonsense.

Crow

You made a good case Crow...if the judge is reasonable the finders and present owner should split the money as you said...especially the finders are being punished now in the whole thing ,,,hence unless they are rewarded for their honesty, it may leave a bad precedent in the public consciousness regarding on what to do (or not to do) when it comes finding stuff of value...

TT

 

[Crow]

You made a good case Crow...if the judge is reasonable the finders and present owner should split the money as you said...especially the finders are being punished now in the whole thing ,,,hence unless they are rewarded for their honesty, it may leave a bad precedent in the public consciousness regarding on what to do (or not to do) when it comes finding stuff of value...

TT

Exactly

Crow

 

[Crow]

Now add the type of treasure with the potential of being a historical artifact of cultural patrimony you begin to see they are not easy to turn into liquid assets.

Take this for example.... This 18th century gold chalice



While the Spanish Churches it was looted from in the early 19th century was indeed rich. Over time today they are asset rich but cash poor. The newly created countries from the collapse of Spanish South America see such objects as colonial oppression. So they have no interest or desire to pay a reward for their recovery. The church itself has not got the liquid assets to reward a finder of their historic artifacts.

The UNESCO convention forbids the trade in antiquities without Provence prior to 1973. So as artifact it is virtually no value in reward for the finder or if he do so chooses to sell the item. Thirdly there is limited market of buyers for such and object. So what happens to the poor finder after many years of hard work in recovering such items to great expense? Zero reward for finding and no market in selling the items as it is a beautiful cultural item.

So the outcome for such items...Cultural destruction melted down for their gold. That is the outcome of poor thought out policies in regards to treasure trove. Since most countries around the world has adopted UNESCO convention thousand of artifacts are in effect being melted down. For me that is a travesty amigos.

Better to let the items be recorded and photographed and sold to collectors. And if the object is of cultural importance enough then the state to reward the finder. Like the potable antiquities scheme in the UK. In the UK museum have bought 1.5 million artifacts though the system from small to large finds.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Same for this crown that once sat on the Madonna and child statue.



It is some thing you cannot go to the local pawn shop and pawn.


Crow

 

[Crow]

Not some thing you can flog on Ebay or crags list?



Crow

 

[Crow]

Of course I cannot imagine finding a buyer for a solid silver halo?



Or a silver procession 18th century helmet



All of these items and many more can become from what first seems a treasure and in some respects they are, become a noose around you neck. Some treasures amigos are well better left alone.

Crow

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Crow, recognize this? Crow produced this masterpiece. a man of many talents, besides sleeping on the main thorofare in Paupau, New Guinea It's the book dust jacket of the story of Tayopa Oops it didn't post.