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  1. #91
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,509
    2992 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Good evening Charlie, reread your post, Just what in the world are we talking about in here if not that? Frequency sensitive imaging. In the posted case, it is IR.

    As for your wood chuck, certainly he might be giving off more heat, but of a different frequency. We are not interested in that freq. obviously. and the thermal imaging camera prob would show him in his entirety in any event.

    The posted pictures were of cameras that 'have' been utilized to photograph / record frequencies of a range that is not normally visible to human sensitivity. Precisely the purpose / reason that we are experimenting for in here. Now to narrow it down to the ones that we are interested in by experimentation.

    When I passed through the border the other day, I saw a huge scanning device which penetrated semi trailers to look for contraband. What frequency are they using to penetrate the Aluminum body cover? More important, how are they differentially presenting the received data visually?

    Also what frequency are they now using for full body scans at some airports that show a person as being naked?

    Sorry swr, find something else to chortle about..

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  2. #92

    Aug 2004
    1,341
    13 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Dear group;
    There is a simple test to prove or disprove the theory that a camera can *see* gold. Take a piece of gold, such as a wedding band, and place it on a table at night, then turn off all the lights, disable the flash feature on the camera and take several images, then examine the images.

    Now, if a camera is able to * see* gold above the ground, then it should certainly be able to see it when it's lying in plain sight, shouldn't it? This would also hold true for photos taken of people wearing jewelry in dim lighting conditions, yet it doesn't happen. Why doesn't this happen? Simple, because cameras cannot * see* gold, my friends. In short, it's a psuedo-science and one which can be easily disproven.
    Your friend;
    LAMAR

  3. #93
    us
    Apr 2009
    354
    1 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by lamar
    Dear group;
    There is a simple test to prove or disprove the theory that a camera can *see* gold. Take a piece of gold, such as a wedding band, and place it on a table at night, then turn off all the lights, disable the flash feature on the camera and take several images, then examine the images.

    Now, if a camera is able to * see* gold above the ground, then it should certainly be able to see it when it's lying in plain sight, shouldn't it? This would also hold true for photos taken of people wearing jewelry in dim lighting conditions, yet it doesn't happen. Why doesn't this happen? Simple, because cameras cannot * see* gold, my friends. In short, it's a psuedo-science and one which can be easily disproven.
    Your friend;
    LAMAR
    Lamar, I totally agree. The only thing I would change in your test is that your camera should have the internal IR filter removed and you should also use a normal light blocking filter on the outside. That would make it a "true" IR camera. But the net result will undoubtedly be the same. The picture will be entirely black. Or at the very least, the gold will not be any brighter than anything else in the image. Thus, all of this talk about IR reflecting, differences in temperatures, and other such pseudo science is just nonsense.

  4. #94
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,509
    2992 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Lamar & Jb: Unfortunately you are completely wrong Lamar, all that your suggested thingie does is to simply verify that we are in exactly the same state of affairs as we were in standard photography that we were in, shall we say, 1800. We couldn't reproduce what was there all of the time, but finally did develop something that we now take as obviously evident, the silver salts reaction to Photons.

    They were sensitive to the visible light spectrum and a bit more. As for reproducing the visible spectrum with just a few units of electricity, sheehs , who'd a thunk? TV? Illuminating a room that was in total darkness with only a flip of a contolling device, a switch

    If we can reproduce or duplicate 'any' frequency so that it can be seen visibly, which we have done for many, there is no law of physics that flatly states that we cannot do the same of any other frequency. If the need was obvious at the moment, and the financing was available, I am quite sure that it would be accomplished readily. it is just a matter of time. Unfortunately neither that need, nor financing, has materialized, so we are dependent upon home experiments, similar to the Wright Brothers.

    Have you ever seen an electron? I haven't either, yet I daily measure and use it with the appropriate instruments. In fact just using this site to post, requires using any things that are not seen visually in themselves, but are made so by instrumentation.

    We are trying to reproduce visually, the frequency of Gold, through an inexpensive modification of an
    electronic frequency reproduction device. This falls completely within normal accepted Scientific rules and procedures. Just that simple.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #95
    Charter Member
    us
    "Is that a Geiger Counter?"

    Feb 2006
    South Central Upstate NY in the foothills of the headlands
    '72 RS Kit/Musketeer Advantage with 8" & 10" DD coils/Fisher F75se with 11" DD & 6.5" concentric coils/Sunray FX-1 Probe/Black Widows/Rattler/F-Point/Merlin SXL Pinpointers
    4,397
    986 times
    Metal Detecting

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    As for your wood chuck, certainly he might be giving off more heat, but of a different frequency. We are not interested in that freq. obviously. and the thermal imaging camera prob would show him in his entirety in any event.

    The posted pictures were of cameras that 'have' been utilized to photograph / record frequencies of a range that is not normally visible to human sensitivity. Precisely the purpose / reason that we are experimenting for in here. Now to narrow it down to the ones that we are interested in by experimentation.
    Certainly. Infra Red is a specific range of frequencies that we recognize as heat signatures with the proper recording instruments.

    The term "infrared" refers to a broad range of frequencies, beginning at the top end of those frequencies used for communication and extending up the the low frequency (red) end of the visible spectrum. The wavelength range is from about 1 millimeter down to 750 nm. The range adjacent to the visible spectrum is called the "near infrared" and the longer wavelength part is called "far infrared".
    Gold does not "radiate" a specific frequency that a digital camera can detect. You're into the micro waves and radio waves at about 20 zeros removed (smaller) on the Hertz scale from visual or infra-red wavelengths. I presume you are referring to the sub-atomic rates at which the molecules resonate? That is not infra red and occurs at frequencise so far off the visual or infra-red or ultra violet scale. Or is there some "aura" gold is supposed to generate that is unknown to science as yet? I suppose all you need for that is a cardboard box with a pinhole in one end and an aluminum foil helmet.

    Does a digital camera see the VHF electromagnetic field generated by metal detectors? That is BILLIONS of times more powerful (at 100 milliAmps) than a five pound brick of gold can produce.

    We see a dog as yellow not because he gives off "yellow wavelengths" but because his pigment absorbs all but yellow wavelengts of visible light and the yellow is perceived by our eyes. The source of the original full spectrum light is the sun (or a lightbulb, whatever). The dog emits no light of his own production. Neither does gold produce any energy on its own. Heat is different. The dog's metabolism produces heat, so he is a point source of infra red emission. Gold has no metabolism and relies on the ambient temperature. Set a bowling ball beside a lump of gold and view them in IR and they would be identically invisible if the surrounding soil is at the same temperature. Gold, being a great conductor, probably loses heat FASTER than the bowling ball, in fact.

    America was founded by tough hell-raisers. Rugged citizens who evaded taxes, spoke strongly against tyranny, grew tobacco, brewed beer, distilled spirits, and smuggled weapons. And it will be saved by those same types of citizens.

  6. #96
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,509
    2992 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    good morning Charles: You posted -->Certainly. Infra Red is a specific range of frequencies that we recognize as heat signatures with the proper recording instruments.
    ************
    Agreed my friend.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    You also posted --> Gold does not "radiate" a specific frequency that a digital camera can detect
    *************
    You know, and can produce scientific data for this of course
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________
    You posted -->. You're into the micro waves and radio waves at about 20 zeros removed (smaller) on the Hertz scale from visual or infra-red wavelengths.
    *************

    Agreed, but?? Why this fixation on the IR? At this point we have no idea what we might find that is actually reproducible, which may be indicative of the presence of Gold, whether directly in the frequency sought , or as a harmonic /sub harmonic of the desired one.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________
    You also posted --> Does a digital camera see the VHF electromagnetic field generated by metal detectors? That is BILLIONS of times more powerful (at 100 milliAmps) than a five pound brick of gold can produce.
    **************

    Quit true, but we successfully measure the caloric factor, chemical make up, and other things on distant planets using sensitive detectors. These are infinitely far weaker than any similar factor that might be associated with Gold.

    As for measuring VHF fields from Gold, who says that we need that high a frequency at this state of experimentation, or that we can't adapt an indirect measurement through one of the harmonics??
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    You also posted -->We see a dog as yellow not because he gives off "yellow wavelengths" but because his pigment absorbs all but yellow wavelengts of visible light and the yellow is perceived by our eyes
    *****************
    True, but what happens if we bath the dog with a 'pure' frequency of say blue, or green??
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    You also posted -->Gold has no metabolism and relies on the ambient temperature
    ************

    No argument here, but why has metabolism been brought up? This is not what we normally consider a living entity.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    You posted -->Gold, being a great conductor, probably loses heat FASTER than the bowling ball, in fact.
    **********
    Again quite true, but you are forgetting the ability of the gold to absorb and retain a far far greater amount of heat, so even if it is realeasing it at a higher rate, it will continue to do so for a far longer period.

    The original example of using IR, was merely to show that there are an infinite no of ways to detect Buried gold both directly or indirectly through an associated frequency.

    I enjoy seeing your posts Charlie, you do good thinking. Keep it up please.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  7. #97
    us
    Apr 2009
    354
    1 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    good morning Charles: You posted -->Certainly. Infra Red is a specific range of frequencies that we recognize as heat signatures with the proper recording instruments.
    ************
    Agreed my friend.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    You also posted --> Gold does not "radiate" a specific frequency that a digital camera can detect
    *************
    You know, and can produce scientific data for this of course
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________
    You posted -->. You're into the micro waves and radio waves at about 20 zeros removed (smaller) on the Hertz scale from visual or infra-red wavelengths.
    *************

    Agreed, but?? Why this fixation on the IR? At this point we have no idea what we might find that is actually reproducible, which may be indicative of the presence of Gold, whether directly in the frequency sought , or as a harmonic /sub harmonic of the desired one.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________
    You also posted --> Does a digital camera see the VHF electromagnetic field generated by metal detectors? That is BILLIONS of times more powerful (at 100 milliAmps) than a five pound brick of gold can produce.
    **************

    Quit true, but we successfully measure the caloric factor, chemical make up, and other things on distant planets using sensitive detectors. These are infinitely far weaker than any similar factor that might be associated with Gold.

    As for measuring VHF fields from Gold, who says that we need that high a frequency at this state of experimentation, or that we can't adapt an indirect measurement through one of the harmonics??
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    You also posted -->We see a dog as yellow not because he gives off "yellow wavelengths" but because his pigment absorbs all but yellow wavelengts of visible light and the yellow is perceived by our eyes
    *****************
    True, but what happens if we bath the dog with a 'pure' frequency of say blue, or green??
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    You also posted -->Gold has no metabolism and relies on the ambient temperature
    ************

    No argument here, but why has metabolism been brought up? This is not what we normally consider a living entity.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    You posted -->Gold, being a great conductor, probably loses heat FASTER than the bowling ball, in fact.
    **********
    Again quite true, but you are forgetting the ability of the gold to absorb and retain a far far greater amount of heat, so even if it is realeasing it at a higher rate, it will continue to do so for a far longer period.

    The original example of using IR, was merely to show that there are an infinite no of ways to detect Buried gold both directly or indirectly through an associated frequency.

    I enjoy seeing your posts Charlie, you do good thinking. Keep it up please.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Don Jose de La Mancha, I really don't see the point of you continuing to argue anymore. You've now gotten to the point where you are trying to argue semantics as to whether or not it is even possible to create SOME type of detector that could detect gold. What is the point of that? This thread is about normal digital cameras seeing gold through IR. If you don't want to argue that anymore then start a new thread. But at least have the common courtesy to stop this maddening charade.

    It is true that some day we may have some sort of detector that can detect gold using some physical property that is completely unknown to us now. But that physical property is not IR. And that detector is not a standard digital camera.

    Do you or do you not believe that a digital camera can see buried gold? Not a camera or special detector of the future, a camera of today. If you believe it, test it and prove it to yourself. If you don't, then let's move on with life and quit playing the "science does not know everything and someday we may all be surprised" game. As I've recently stated in another thread, scientists have better ways to find gold for hundreds if not thousands of years. There is no reason to believe that they haven't tried seeing gold with digital cameras of all shapes and sizes. And yes, even non-scientists have tried this and failed.

  8. #98
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    45 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    I have seen Pictures of a certain dig that show a mist above the dig.
    As the dig progressed the mist (most detectable in the early morning) is much thicker.
    there were pictures taken everyday.

    I also know that a recovery was made and the gold found was tested to have been retorted using mercury.
    so a certain percent of the mercury was still present.
    As I am led to understand the mercury decays and the gas given off isn't visible to the eye,
    but the camera sees it right away.
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  9. #99
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,509
    2992 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    JB: I am merely responding to posted questions and remarks. Yes, the entire matter is still open ended. We may probably end up, if successful, in other regions than IR, so 'all' should be discussed.

    Inciidentally, the site is "Can Cameras see Gold".

    Ghost dog , you are correct. The Mercury fumes tend to block light and other freq. A normal prospecting example is the reactive screen bathed with an UV source with the emitting or suspected object between the screen and the emitting source. The result is similar to what you describe, a hazy, moving shadow.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  10. #100
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    45 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Good morning Mi Amigo Jose,

    One small thing of note that must be provided here.
    When the mist is present, adequate ventilation MUST be provided.
    That gas is very poisonous.

    Thom
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  11. #101
    Charter Member
    us
    "Is that a Geiger Counter?"

    Feb 2006
    South Central Upstate NY in the foothills of the headlands
    '72 RS Kit/Musketeer Advantage with 8" & 10" DD coils/Fisher F75se with 11" DD & 6.5" concentric coils/Sunray FX-1 Probe/Black Widows/Rattler/F-Point/Merlin SXL Pinpointers
    4,397
    986 times
    Metal Detecting

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    good morning Charles: You posted -->Certainly. Infra Red is a specific range of frequencies that we recognize as heat signatures with the proper recording instruments.
    ************
    Agreed my friend.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    You also posted --> Gold does not "radiate" a specific frequency that a digital camera can detect
    *************
    You know, and can produce scientific data for this of course
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________
    Well . . . yes. Those elements that are capable of producing electromagnetic radiation on their own along any portion of the spectrum (radio, microwave, IR, visable, UV or VHF, etc.) are called . . . radioactive. To detect them is easy - set a receiver to the proper frequency - al la Geiger Counter - and have at it. No camera needed.

    You posted -->. You're into the micro waves and radio waves at about 20 zeros removed (smaller) on the Hertz scale from visual or infra-red wavelengths.
    *************

    Agreed, but?? Why this fixation on the IR? At this point we have no idea what we might find that is actually reproducible, which may be indicative of the presence of Gold, whether directly in the frequency sought , or as a harmonic /sub harmonic of the desired one.
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________
    You also posted --> Does a digital camera see the VHF electromagnetic field generated by metal detectors? That is BILLIONS of times more powerful (at 100 milliAmps) than a five pound brick of gold can produce.
    **************

    Quit true, but we successfully measure the caloric factor, chemical make up, and other things on distant planets using sensitive detectors. These are infinitely far weaker than any similar factor that might be associated with Gold.

    As for measuring VHF fields from Gold, who says that we need that high a frequency at this state of experimentation, or that we can't adapt an indirect measurement through one of the harmonics??
    Harmonics? It has been my finding that harmonics are more related to shape/morphology than material composition. You want a higher note you use a thinner guitar string - same composition. I haven't seen any science on certain substances of various shapes or buried in contact with rock and soil being able to resonate particularly well.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    You also posted -->We see a dog as yellow not because he gives off "yellow wavelengths" but because his pigment absorbs all but yellow wavelengts of visible light and the yellow is perceived by our eyes
    *****************
    True, but what happens if we bath the dog with a 'pure' frequency of say blue, or green??
    __________________________________________________ ____________________________
    You also posted -->Gold has no metabolism and relies on the ambient temperature
    ************

    No argument here, but why has metabolism been brought up? This is not what we normally consider a living entity.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________

    You posted -->Gold, being a great conductor, probably loses heat FASTER than the bowling ball, in fact.
    **********
    Again quite true, but you are forgetting the ability of the gold to absorb and retain a far far greater amount of heat, so even if it is realeasing it at a higher rate, it will continue to do so for a far longer period.
    Why would gold absorb or retain any more ambient heat than say, zinc, barium, aluminum, or any other metalic element in the vicinity? Why do you isolate gold when it is actually a pretty boring element compared to others? Just because mankind puts great value on it doesn't mean Nature does.


    The original example of using IR, was merely to show that there are an infinite no of ways to detect Buried gold both directly or indirectly through an associated frequency.

    I enjoy seeing your posts Charlie, you do good thinking. Keep it up please.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Enjoy your posts, too. Actually, science is open ended and will adopt to any findings of substance. Keep at it.
    America was founded by tough hell-raisers. Rugged citizens who evaded taxes, spoke strongly against tyranny, grew tobacco, brewed beer, distilled spirits, and smuggled weapons. And it will be saved by those same types of citizens.

  12. #102
    us
    Apr 2009
    354
    1 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie P. (NY)
    Why would gold absorb or retain any more ambient heat than say, zinc, barium, aluminum, or any other metalic element in the vicinity? Why do you isolate gold when it is actually a pretty boring element compared to others? Just because mankind puts great value on it doesn't mean Nature does
    Amen! I really don't understand why so many people on this forum fail to see the fact that they are grasping at straws simply because they truly want to believe it is possible. If I told people that a buried twinkie could be detected with a digital camera they'd say that I was absolutely insane. Yet they will hold out hope for any possible explanation that will lead to the conclusion that buried gold can be seen with a camera. As Charlie pointed out, why would gold be any different from rocks, alluminum, steel, pennies, gum wrappers, or anything else buried in the ground? Why would cameras be able to see gold yet fail to see any of these other things? Since when did digital cameras aquire the ability to discriminate between metals better than the best metal detectors known to man?

    It's wishful thinking is all it is. People spend hours on end out here debating and theorizing as to how cameras could see gold, how treasure gases could be produced, and whether or not a crooked tree can lead them to a hidden Spanish cache. Yet science has been trying to prove these things over and over again for centuries and has failed to. Oh well. What can you do? You really can't convince them that they are wasting their time. They just don't want to hear it.

  13. #103
    us
    Jan 2010
    White's GMT
    210
    1 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    "Wishful thinking" is not a bad answer, however we have to remember that this is a hobby for most of us, and if it weren't for wishful thinking we wouldn't be doing it in the first place. Do you go swing a coil just because you have spare time and can't figure out anything else to do with it, or do you go out with wishful thinking of finding jewelry/coins/nugget, whatever it you like to hunt for?

    Wishful thinking and grasping at straws have led to some of the most innovative and useful things in our everyday lives. Just because it probably won't ever work doesn't mean that people can't try to make it work, and if nobody tries to make it work, then it definitely won't ever work.
    Anybody who says "it can't be done" will usually be interrupted by somebody who's already doing it.

  14. #104
    us
    Apr 2009
    354
    1 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by bigwater
    "Wishful thinking" is not a bad answer, however we have to remember that this is a hobby for most of us, and if it weren't for wishful thinking we wouldn't be doing it in the first place. Do you go swing a coil just because you have spare time and can't figure out anything else to do with it, or do you go out with wishful thinking of finding jewelry/coins/nugget, whatever it you like to hunt for?

    Wishful thinking and grasping at straws have led to some of the most innovative and useful things in our everyday lives. Just because it probably won't ever work doesn't mean that people can't try to make it work, and if nobody tries to make it work, then it definitely won't ever work.
    It may be wishful thinking to believe that I'll pull a gold coin out of the ground on my next hunt. But at least it is scientifically possible.

  15. #105
    us
    Apr 2009
    354
    1 times

    Re: cameras see gold

    Quote Originally Posted by SWR
    Quote Originally Posted by jb7487

    It's wishful thinking is all it is. People spend hours on end out here debating and theorizing as to how cameras could see gold, how treasure gases could be produced, and whether or not a crooked tree can lead them to a hidden Spanish cache. Yet science has been trying to prove these things over and over again for centuries and has failed to. Oh well. What can you do? You really can't convince them that they are wasting their time. They just don't want to hear it.
    The winner(s) here are the ones writing the books promoting wishful thinking. Now that is a money making gimmick!

    It doesn't have to be necessarily true....nor does the context of the text have to be validated. Write it...sell it...and move on to another $$ making gimmick.

    Next book: Find Gold and Treasure Using Paint Splatters

    Amen!

 

 
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