help with hallmarks on pocket watch

[snowdogg70]

picked this up today at the local thrift, im pretty sure its silver i assume 935? also those 3 lion? stamps make me think silver
but im wondering if anyone knows anything about this watch like,age how to wind it lol, i will admit i dont know much about watches but am trying to learn, its in really nice shape and i am also assuming its old
any help would be great thanks

 

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[GopherDaGold]

The lion hallmark is from England but some parts of that watch look plated. Could be just the pics, though.

 

[ArfieBoy]

The hole on the back with the square post is the winding mechanism. You need a key that fits the post to wind it. Cool watch. Thanks for posting.

 

[Red-Coat]

That’s a Swiss hallmark used for export silver, and almost exclusively for watch cases exported to Britain between 1888-1907.

In 1887, Britain introduced new requirements for imported gold and silver watch cases via the “British Merchandise Act”. From 1st January 1888 imported cases had to be hallmarked in a British Assay Office, or in their country of origin, or carry no hallmarks at all (and therefore couldn’t be sold as “silver”). Neither of the existing Swiss silver standards (.800 or .875) met the Sterling standard and so the import of Swiss silver cases was effectively going to be prohibited by default.

At a meeting of the Swiss Federal Council on 24 December 1887, it was decreed that an additional new standard be introduced to allow compliance with British law. The new standard was “0,935 Sterling” and .935 was chosen rather than .925 as a result of differences in understanding about what tolerances applied to assay analysis in Britain versus Switzerland. To confirm that a watch case had assayed at .935 a distinguishing hallmark was needed and the Swiss decided on three bears, each within a shield… one small bear above two large ones. That’s your mark, I think.



In October 1890 it was proposed that the practice be discontinued and watch cases be marked 0,935 with a single bear. The Fédération Horlogère Suisse expressed concern on behalf of watch case makers that British customers had become sufficiently accustomed to seeing three bears that it would be unwise to abandon the mark and so both styles were then allowed. The number of bears didn’t matter for all markets and so watch cases of 0,935 silver that were submitted to the Bureaux de Contrôle (assay offices) were usually in packets marked “Destinée à l'Angleterre” (destined for England) to be stamped with three bears; everything else, including for America, was stamped with a single bear.

Further legislative changes meant that from 1st June 1907 all imported Swiss silver watch cases had to be assayed and hallmarked in a British assay office and so the three bears mark is generally not seen after that date unless a British hallmark is also present. Then in 1933, Switzerland introduced a 0,925 standard fully aligned to Sterling and accompanied by a duck hallmark.

 

[Red-Coat]

PS: One other thing worth mentioning is that sometimes there are only two bears apparent on the body of these Swiss cases. The third, smaller, bear is then somewhere else (usually on or in the vicinity of the suspension loop at the top).

 

[Red-Coat]

PPS: You will need a key to both wind the watch and set the time. That's what the two small 'pegs' sticking out of the holes are for. If you go foraging in a junk shop you should have no problem finding one with a square hole on the end that fits snugly over those pegs. Watch cases were made in a series of standard sizes and often sold separately to the movements, so it's not guaranteed that the case and the movement are by the same maker or even of the same age. The back of the case should also open and the maker of the movement will be stamped or engraved somewhere.

 

[Back-of-the-boat]

Go to a watch repair shop and see if you can get a winding key and have the watch repairman show you what to do. Very nice watch to hand down as you have kids or Grandkids. Just take all the info Redcoat has provided and print it to keep with the watch.

 

[trdking]

The first stem wind stem set pocket watch came out is 1851 By the 1870's pretty much all manufacturers at least used stem wind movements having to pull a lever to set the time with the stem. I always assumed that key wind key set movements were all pre 1860's If the hallmark requirement was truly 1888 then this watch is old technology when it was sold new. I personally think this watch is pre 1860 a look at the movement would help. Cheers

 

[Red-Coat]

The first stem wind stem set pocket watch came out is 1851 By the 1870's pretty much all manufacturers at least used stem wind movements having to pull a lever to set the time with the stem. I always assumed that key wind key set movements were all pre 1860's If the hallmark requirement was truly 1888 then this watch is old technology when it was sold new. I personally think this watch is pre 1860 a look at the movement would help. Cheers

As I said in post #6 above, it's always unwise to assume that a watch case and the movement within it are the same age or from the same maker. I'm 100% confident about the case being post 1887 and almost certainly no later than 1907.

If the movement is earlier, then someone has put the movement into a newer case (perhaps a better one than it originally had, or a replacement case for one that had been damaged). It was common practice for cases and movements to be sold separately but with standardised sizings to allow interchangeability. If you went to buy a watch a jeweller could offer you a selection of cases ranging from silverplate to gold and a selection of movements of differing qualities that fitted these cases to suit your budget.

 

[snowdogg70]

sorry guys i meant to show the inside after reading your comments but got side tracked and forgot till now when i saw this again,
thanks for the responses and here is the inside