Antique Button Education Needed

[goldnow]

Today was a short hunt on my Italy 3 acres. I'm still only on my second battery since starting this dirt diving, so I've got some questions.

I found this huge button at 6". It is 1 7/8th inches wide. How do you age a button?, And what would such a large button be used on? A heavy overcoat? Would it be worn by females only or both sexes? I believe it to be brass, as I only partially cleaned it up so far.

The other interesting tidbit (4" down) is a very early (I'm guessing 17/1800's) religious medallion, also brass I believe. The other side (unseen) is a Madonna holding Baby Jesus, but is very worn down.

May your next swing be the One.

 

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[DCMatt]

Your assumptions are good. Large coat button, sometimes called a "dandy button". Mid 1700's to early 1800's. Fancy buttons were worn by both genders and were often a sign of wealth or status.

Dig some iron objects at your site for more clues about date and use of the site.

Where are you located?

DCMatt

 

[goldnow]

I'm in North Italy.. Earliest so far is a iron Roman hob nail. Second oldest is a circa 1600 Silver coin. Yesterday I found a 1924 1 lira. I've got old iron up the kazoo from strap hinges (1700's) to brass objects 1900's. So, you see there is no way to date the site, except by saying, "old".

All these above items, and many more including the gold ring avatar, were all found within 20 yards from my front door since August 1. I haven't even yet been off my land (wifey's, actually).

Thanks for ID-ing the button....I understand military buttons have their place in the collector's world, but do theses "Dandy" buttons also have a following. I want to know if I should put it, and any others I find, in the jar for the grandkids to play with later on, or in their college fund box.

 

[DCMatt]

Yes, old in Italy is very different than old in the USA. I have a site near my house in the Washington DC suburbs that dates back to about 1800. For me, it is an old site. No pesky Roman objects to "get in my way" there...

Non military buttons don't have much value that I know of. Maybe a few bucks to the right collector. Definitely NOT college fund items.

Have you posted pics of the ring? I'd like to see it.

Any concerns about Italian government rules on your finds?

DCMatt

 

[johnnyi]

goldnow, those Franciscan medals can date way back to the early 1600's or earlier and hardly have changed much. They exist in many shapes, but the old ones can be distinguished by the top which is almost always perpendicular to the medal rather than on the same plane. Here is a link to a couple. The second image is one I dug in Bolivia years ago which is very similar to the motif of your's and which dates from around the mid 1600's. You'll usually find the Madona on the verso and St. francis on the front. http://images.google.com/imgres?img...tury+catholic+religious+medal&hl=en&sa=G&um=1

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Your assumptions are good. Large coat button, sometimes called a "dandy button". Mid 1700's to early 1800's. Fancy buttons were worn by both genders and were often a sign of wealth or status.

Dig some iron objects at your site for more clues about date and use of the site.

Where are you located?

DCMatt

Based on the look of the button and the location it was found, I am not so sure about it being a "Dandy". It does not look like any of the dandies I have found here in New Jersey. It may be much older than that.

 

[goldnow]

Thanks johnnyi......BULLSEYE! on that ID.. Yes, my loop is perpendicular, and the medal is the same shape, same black color. I have it soaking in Extra Virgin Olive oil at the moment, which I think is appropriate for this particular piece.... 1600's? I don't believe it! I was only off by 200 years..

Thanks, You made my day.

 

[johnnyi]

"Based on the look of the button and the location it was found, I am not so sure about it being a "Dandy". It does not look like any of the dandies I have found here in New Jersey. It may be much older than that."

Neil, some of the designs on the "Dandy" button found in N.J. are few and far between, but here is an example I dug from right across the river from which shows they exist. this particular one also dates from a late 1700's site. I agree with the other posters, late 1700's on your button.

 

[goldnow]

Ciao DCMatt...To me the style on the button looks Rennaissance (sp?), which is around the 1500-1600 period (correct me if I'm wrong), but the condition of the button is absolutely perfect, so I didn't have any confidence it was that old and that long in the ground. The stamp, or die, was definitely hand made.

This day just gets better and better, considering I thought I got skunked today. I love this hobby!

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

"Based on the look of the button and the location it was found, I am not so sure about it being a "Dandy". It does not look like any of the dandies I have found here in New Jersey. It may be much older than that."

Neil, some of the designs on the "Dandy" button found in N.J. are few and far between, but here is an example I dug from right across the river from which shows they exist. this particular one also dates from a late 1700's site. I agree with the other posters, late 1700's on your button.

Johnny,

I am not saying it can not be a Dandy, I said I am not sure. I have seen similar buttons dug in Europe that are MUCH older. It was the button back that created some doubt. What does the back of your button look like?

 

[goldnow]

So, do I put the button in the grandkid's college fund box, or is it just a nice novelty.

 

[goldnow]

"Have you posted pics of the ring? I'd like to see it.

Any concerns about Italian government rules on your finds?

DCMatt"


Yes, I posted it a week or so ago.. It is my first and only gold. I hope I did the link right.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,267505.msg1902783.html#msg1902783

Italian law says I can keep anything younger than a 1500 coin. Land owners get 10% of anything of value. (which is really too low) Any coin found older than 1500 must be given to the government, and the finder gets 25% of value. Of course, if someone finds an archeology site, you have to report it, and the jail time for not is serious. There are States like Toscana and Calabria that do not allow metal detecting at all, but that doesn't seem to include casual beach type hunting. I think the gov't is really interested in the deeper more important treasure hunting for Roman or Etruscan sites.

 

[johnnyi]

Hi Neil. I misunderstood your reasoning. No, my button is entirely cast in a mold, with the exception of the wire shank added. Goldnow's seems to be pressed cast or just pressed with a correspondig die to push the higher relief of his into the obverse die. The thin wire shank on goldnow's seems to me to fit the late 1700's period much closer than the earlier shanks. I'll go through all my buttons, as I think I may have a pressed 1790's around here somewhere.

Okay, found something... This is a large Dandy button also (found in your area), but it is pressed with the negative of the design showing on the back. The shank is huge compared to the button, and obviously once replaced, which is why I had to weight down an edge for the show the reverse.

 

[allen]

cool old button !

 

[spartacus53]

Great looking button