NJ Copper, DBLC, and a Tongue & Wreath officer's buckle piece...

[Scrappy]

I really enjoy Fall detecting because it means you can detect the spots that are dying off. A few such spots opened up and I've been having some luck. I returned to the spot where I dug a CT copper and some LC's earlier in the season. Turned out it had opened up a little.

I had a scratchy signal mixed with iron. Thought it was junk. Once dug I could tell is was going to be an ugly one. Initially this coin was a roached Draped bust that had no ID, so I used electrolysis while microwaving it, used an ultrasonic cleaner filled with battery acid, and then sanded it.

I also dig two fat Indians which are soaking.

Next came a copper that came in like a small cent signal.



Turned out to be a big surprise


It's not in the best shape, but it's my best NJ copper of the three nice dug.

The biggest surprise of the day was a quarter signal I dug. I have a video of digging it, then being disappointed thinking it was scrap brass. Then I see it...

Turned out to be an tongue from an officer's buckle. Now in not too versed in militaria, but it looks to me like an early-mid 1800's buckle based on it being a poured one-piece.

And the rest...

It was a great 2 hour hunt this morning. I wish they all went like that! Last time I was here the ground was dry and brush was high - and I was skunked.

Good digs and good luck,

Steve

 

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[Scrappy]

Nice Scrappy coco

Thx Brad. After November 15th I should have some time to get together. I'll talk to you soon

 

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[pepperj]

Time well spent Scrappy, liking the copper and buckle piece.

 

[Scrappy]

Time well spent Scrappy, liking the copper and buckle piece.

Thanks Pepp. I'm glad you like it. It's the first NJ copper I found where I can read all the writing, or even some. The others were wicked toasty

 

[deershed]

Awesome hunt and your third NJ copper, you killed it once again.
Congtats!!

 

[CC Hunter]

Scrappy,

Your recovery of a cast brass center piece featuring an Eagle design surrounded by stars, from a Tongue & Wreath belt buckle, dates from around the late 1840's through 1850's period. There are a number of variations of this particular style of cast T&W (Tongue & Wreath) Eagle buckle, in various sizes and casting qualities. The design on these buckles of an upright Eagle clutching arrows and olive branches, surrounded by 27 stars, likely dates sometime after the admission of our 27th state, Florida in 1845. Over the years military collectors, along with the leading reference books on American military belt plates and buckles, have referred to these as "Militia Belt Plates". Considering that the vast majority of excavated examples have come from primarily civilian use sites (rather than military sites), as well as noting that in studies of 19th century photographs we see similar examples of these buckles shown in Daguerreotypes and Ambrotypes being worn by individuals in civilian clothing, leads to the theory that these particular buckles were likely commercially available to the public in the mid-19th century.

The 27-Star cast brass Eagle T&W buckles rarely turn up in recoveries from sites dating after the American Civil War. Over the years I have noted examples being found all across the country from Atlantic to Pacific, as well as in 1850's period sites in Australia. These buckles appear to have been extremely popular with gold miners in America as well as with the many American miners traveling abroad. Famed German immigrant artist Charles Christian Nahl depicts gold miners in a cabin by firelight in his fabulous 1872 painting, Saturday Night in the Mines, with one prominently wearing a leather belt with a brass T&W buckle featuring an Eagle design. During the westward expansion of the 1850's, from Missouri and Kansas, all the way through to Oregon and Washington territories and the great Golden State, a well outfitted man was rarely seen without a holstered Allen's pepperbox or Colt at his side along with a menacing Bowie knife of glistening Sheffield steel. These necessary accoutrements of protection and daily function on the frontier, also required an adequate belt to snugly carry such equipment. Through research and recovery, along with some speculation by dedicated enthusiasts collecting and studying the 1840's-1850's periods, there is the understanding that these cast brass 27-Star Eagle buckles were likely manufactured by a number of craftsmen in various areas throughout America, along with copying existing buckle examples by creating an impression mold and then casting new copies. The quality on some of the buckles is extremely crude, denoting multi-generation casting (i.e: copy of a copy of a copy, etc.) There also remains the distinct possibility that foreign manufacturing of these buckles was taking place in Europe and Asia as well, then being imported for the American market.

In conclusion, I will add that while these cast brass 27-Star Eagle T&W buckles are not official military, nor militia, nor designed for officer's use, the fascinating history involved with these buckles actually goes well beyond the often noted misconception.

CC Hunter

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Congratualtions on the old copper saves!

The buttons and buckles are very nice.

 

[HEAVYMETALNUT]

sweet hunt steve!

 

[TheGreatNorth]

Nice finds!! That NJ copper has always been in my bucket list, near the top! I've got a high grade one in my coin collection, but always wanted to pull one from the dirt! You post some great stuff! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Diggin Dude]

Well done! Nice finds!!

 

[Scrappy]

NJ Copper, DBLC, and a Tongue & Wreath officer's buckle piece...

Scrappy,

Your recovery of a cast brass center piece featuring an Eagle design surrounded by stars, from a Tongue & Wreath belt buckle, dates from around the late 1840's through 1850's period. There are a number of variations of this particular style of cast T&W (Tongue & Wreath) Eagle buckle, in various sizes and casting qualities. The design on these buckles of an upright Eagle clutching arrows and olive branches, surrounded by 27 stars, likely dates sometime after the admission of our 27th state, Florida in 1845. Over the years military collectors, along with the leading reference books on American military belt plates and buckles, have referred to these as "Militia Belt Plates". Considering that the vast majority of excavated examples have come from primarily civilian use sites (rather than military sites), as well as noting that in studies of 19th century photographs we see similar examples of these buckles shown in Daguerreotypes and Ambrotypes being worn by individuals in civilian clothing, leads to the theory that these particular buckles were likely commercially available to the public in the mid-19th century.

The 27-Star cast brass Eagle T&W buckles rarely turn up in recoveries from sites dating after the American Civil War. Over the years I have noted examples being found all across the country from Atlantic to Pacific, as well as in 1850's period sites in Australia. These buckles appear to have been extremely popular with gold miners in America as well as with the many American miners traveling abroad. Famed German immigrant artist Charles Christian Nahl depicts gold miners in a cabin by firelight in his fabulous 1872 painting, Saturday Night in the Mines, with one prominently wearing a leather belt with a brass T&W buckle featuring an Eagle design. During the westward expansion of the 1850's, from Missouri and Kansas, all the way through to Oregon and Washington territories and the great Golden State, a well outfitted man was rarely seen without a holstered Allen's pepperbox or Colt at his side along with a menacing Bowie knife of glistening Sheffield steel. These necessary accoutrements of protection and daily function on the frontier, also required an adequate belt to snugly carry such equipment. Through research and recovery, along with some speculation by dedicated enthusiasts collecting and studying the 1840's-1850's periods, there is the understanding that these cast brass 27-Star Eagle buckles were likely manufactured by a number of craftsmen in various areas throughout America, along with copying existing buckle examples by creating an impression mold and then casting new copies. The quality on some of the buckles is extremely crude, denoting multi-generation casting (i.e: copy of a copy of a copy, etc.) There also remains the distinct possibility that foreign manufacturing of these buckles was taking place in Europe and Asia as well, then being imported for the American market.

In conclusion, I will add that while these cast brass 27-Star Eagle T&W buckles are not official military, nor militia, nor designed for officer's use, the fascinating history involved with these buckles actually goes well beyond the often noted misconception.

CC Hunter

Wow! Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the origins of these militia belt plates. For me there is no better find than one where you learn a great deal. Interestingly I found a military officers buckle tongue, and when compared, noticed some striking differences. First, the overall quality of the buckle seems less, with less detail and no gilding. I don't think this buckle was ever gilted based on more the protected surfaces not even having a trace.

Now, regarding the buckle's source. This buckle came from a ranch. Specifically a cattle ranch that is recorded to have had dealing out west. I think it's reasonable to say the buckle was perhaps bought out West. I think it's pretty cool you tied it together with no knowledge of this.

Thanks again for the info!

Steve

 

[Scrappy]

sweet hunt steve!

Thanks buddy. We take the good hunts with the bad hunts! Lol

 

[Scrappy]

Nice finds!! That NJ copper has always been in my bucket list, near the top! I've got a high grade one in my coin collection, but always wanted to pull one from the dirt! You post some great stuff! Thanks for sharing.

Thanks man! The NJ coppers were on my list for a while but didn't happen until last summer. Since then I somehow found 3. Go figure on that

 

[CC Hunter]

Steve,

You are quite welcome for the history and identification offered in my reply. The various "non-military" Tongue & Wreath (T&W) buckles are a very passionate research project through many years of personal field work (digging) along with book study and archive searches.

The reference photo supplied in my earlier post, with the red background; is a complete matching tongue, wreath, and belt adjuster, all found within a few feet. As these cast brass 27-Star Eagle T&W buckles come in a vast array of sizes, the task of locating a perfect fit for matching tongue and wreath parts, is almost never accomplished except when they are dug together on the same site.

For size reference as seen in the various cast buckles, the following photos show three distinct variations in the buckle tongues, both front and back views. The final photo shows a mismatched small diameter tongue inside a large diameter wreath (very sloppy poor fit there, unlike the nice tight fit as shown earlier with my complete T&W buckle, with all matching pieces found nearby).

CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

With many years experience digging relics from Rev War to ACW on the east coast, from New York to Florida and many points between, a cast brass T&W buckle was never once counted in my own finds even after years of diligent digging. Venturing over the wide Missouri and across the great divide, brought as many as 11 T&W buckle halves both cast and stamped brass dug in a single afternoon!!!

Here's another example posted on T-Net last year, dug out west in Washington State.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/w...gue-buckle-military-civilian.html#post4445123


CC Hunter

 

[Patriot Relics]

Outstanding work Steve, tongue and NJ copper are the cream of the crop for sure.

 

[Scrappy]

NJ Copper, DBLC, and a Tongue & Wreath officer's buckle piece...

Steve,

You are quite welcome for the history and identification offered in my reply. The various "non-military" Tongue & Wreath (T&W) buckles are a very passionate research project through many years of personal field work (digging) along with book study and archive searches.

The reference photo supplied in my earlier post, with the red background; is a complete matching tongue, wreath, and belt adjuster, all found within a few feet. As these cast brass 27-Star Eagle T&W buckles come in a vast array of sizes, the task of locating a perfect fit for matching tongue and wreath parts, is almost never accomplished except when they are dug together on the same site.

For size reference as seen in the various cast buckles, the following photos show three distinct variations in the buckle tongues, both front and back views. The final photo shows a mismatched small diameter tongue inside a large diameter wreath (very sloppy poor fit there, unlike the nice tight fit as shown earlier with my complete T&W buckle, with all matching pieces found nearby).

CC Hunter

Wow, that's a big contrast between East and West T&W buckle finds. I've found a military one as well . This gilting shined right through, so when I cleaned this new buckle, I expected the same.

Well this new is equally cool IMHO. That said, since these buckles obviously represent something very important to you, would you be interested in having the buckle piece from this post?

If you have this type then that's one thing, but if you need it for a study or to help fill a collection you're more than welcome man. I think finds involving history is larger than any one person and preserving history is everyone's responsibility. Mmanyway let me know

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

I see you're still hitting it hard - and with success. Another nice batch of early finds. Keep 'em coming ....

 

[Scrappy]

Outstanding work Steve, tongue and NJ copper are the cream of the crop for sure.

Thanks. The update is the next time I went back I only found two buttons and a hinge. Lol.

 

[Scrappy]

I see you're still hitting it hard - and with success. Another nice batch of early finds. Keep 'em coming ....

Hey bud, good to hear from you. Ever since I saw your amazing collection first hand it has been early or bust. I have yet to reach back as far as you nor with the success, but I must say seeing your collection has had more influence on me than anything else.

Thanks for looking Bill