Incredible Button Find: Albert FL1

paleomaxx

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Nope I didn't dig it, but that's part of what makes this such an incredible find. I was heading home from digging and I passed by a local estate sale. Not that I need more stuff around the house, but sometimes it's nice to find examples of things I commonly dig that aren't all encrusted with dirt and rust. :laughing7: Anyways I asked if they had any buttons and sure enough they had a huge tin filled with all sorts. I poked through for a bit, but it was mostly modern plastic stuff with a few shell and porcelain mixed in so I passed on that. They asked me if there was something in particular I was looking for and I explained how I dig up brass flat buttons and if I'm luck military eagle buttons. They went inside and came back with a large card sheet filled with WWII eagle buttons. Very cool, but also not what I usually encounter. However there was also one little plastic bag filled with mixed brass 2 and 3 piece buttons.

DSC09593.JPG

I spotted a NY staff officer's button so I bought the bag on the spot. It wasn't until I got home and started looking through that I realized what else was in that little bag. For starters a non-dug tombac from the 1700's:

DSC09598.JPG DSC09599.JPG

I've never seen one without that steel gray patina and as I suspected the alloy was quite brassy when it's freshly made. There was also a little British-made flat button from the 1820's-1830's. I've seen so many out of the ground with the flaky patina that this one almost doesn't look real. But I guess this is what they looked like when they bought them 200 years ago:

DSC09600.JPG

The rest were as I suspected mostly Victorian era buttons with iron backs or more modern backmarks:

DSC09594.JPG DSC09596.JPG DSC09601.JPG

Definitely still some cool buttons and I especially like the very early Boy Scouts button with the motto on the front. To my surprise the NY staff officer's button turned out to actually be Civil War era:

DSC09611.JPG DSC09604.JPG

Really good shape and the back mark indicates early 1860's. But there was one other in the bag that had the same raised lettering in a groove that I hadn't seen before:

DSC09606.JPG DSC09607.JPG

It took quite a bit of digging because a button with an eagle doesn't exactly narrow the search field and I thought the stuff under the eagle were rocks. :tongue3: Finally I found an example in the Ridgeway archives and I had an Albert number: FL1.

This button is a Florida militia button from between the 1840's and 1850's. The backmark (Horstmann Br's & Allien) was only used from 1853 through 1877 which means this button would have been made sometime in the mid 1850's. Apparently this first militia button is very rare to find, let alone non-dug with a stand-up shank and the original gold gilt! I only found a couple other examples online and the few that were for sale were priced way out of sight (for comparison they rivaled GWI buttons). :hello2:

It took me awhile to pick my jaw up off the floor and realize I had something truly special. I'll probably never know how this one ended up in New York State, but what an awesome way to end the weekend!

DSC09612.JPG
 

Upvote 35

Gridwalker306

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I did some searching, and wow that's a valuable button- you weren't kidding. Congrats on a huge score!
 

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paleomaxx

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That's a $2k button! Congrats!

Thank you! I couldn't believe the price when I saw one for sale; I didn't think any buttons got that expensive besides the GWIs and a few choice early political buttons. I saw that a bunch of the other early southern state militia buttons had jaw dropping prices too. I wonder how many of those are sitting in misc button tins somewhere... :laughing7:
 

DiggerKid2003

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Yeah paleo some of these condederate buttons are worth thousands. Look up a southern confederacy button, they can go around 10k! Nice score btw that button is perfect. And with the rarity of this button, though not dig, should take a trip around the banner.
 

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BLK HOLE

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HOLY WOW OH WOW!!!
 

WG2020

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Paleoomax, fantastic find, I also looked up the button...just wow on the prices...think instead of me wishing you good luck with your hunts, I think instead I am going to ask you to wish me good luck. Walt
 

Castineman1779

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Nope I didn't dig it, but that's part of what makes this such an incredible find. I was heading home from digging and I passed by a local estate sale. Not that I need more stuff around the house, but sometimes it's nice to find examples of things I commonly dig that aren't all encrusted with dirt and rust. :laughing7: Anyways I asked if they had any buttons and sure enough they had a huge tin filled with all sorts. I poked through for a bit, but it was mostly modern plastic stuff with a few shell and porcelain mixed in so I passed on that. They asked me if there was something in particular I was looking for and I explained how I dig up brass flat buttons and if I'm luck military eagle buttons. They went inside and came back with a large card sheet filled with WWII eagle buttons. Very cool, but also not what I usually encounter. However there was also one little plastic bag filled with mixed brass 2 and 3 piece buttons.

View attachment 1753262

I spotted a NY staff officer's button so I bought the bag on the spot. It wasn't until I got home and started looking through that I realized what else was in that little bag. For starters a non-dug tombac from the 1700's:

View attachment 1753263 View attachment 1753264

I've never seen one without that steel gray patina and as I suspected the alloy was quite brassy when it's freshly made. There was also a little British-made flat button from the 1820's-1830's. I've seen so many out of the ground with the flaky patina that this one almost doesn't look real. But I guess this is what they looked like when they bought them 200 years ago:

View attachment 1753265

The rest were as I suspected mostly Victorian era buttons with iron backs or more modern backmarks:

View attachment 1753266 View attachment 1753268 View attachment 1753269

Definitely still some cool buttons and I especially like the very early Boy Scouts button with the motto on the front. To my surprise the NY staff officer's button turned out to actually be Civil War era:

View attachment 1753270 View attachment 1753271

Really good shape and the back mark indicates early 1860's. But there was one other in the bag that had the same raised lettering in a groove that I hadn't seen before:

View attachment 1753274 View attachment 1753275

It took quite a bit of digging because a button with an eagle doesn't exactly narrow the search field and I thought the stuff under the eagle were rocks. :tongue3: Finally I found an example in the Ridgeway archives and I had an Albert number: FL1.

This button is a Florida militia button from between the 1840's and 1850's. The backmark (Horstmann Br's & Allien) was only used from 1853 through 1877 which means this button would have been made sometime in the mid 1850's. Apparently this first militia button is very rare to find, let alone non-dug with a stand-up shank and the original gold gilt! I only found a couple other examples online and the few that were for sale were priced way out of sight (for comparison they rivaled GWI buttons). :hello2:

It took me awhile to pick my jaw up off the floor and realize I had something truly special. I'll probably never know how this one ended up in New York State, but what an awesome way to end the weekend!

View attachment 1753279

Congrats on a very rare most folks don't know this but a Confederate used button that has what is called a RMDC . Raised Mark Depressed Center. This type is always pre war and never post. The 3rd rarest next to the FL2 &3 . I bought one at a believe it or not at a coin store in Bangor , Maine many years ago. . He had 100 bucks on it and of course not my job to educate the value . Mine was non dug as well but needed a cleaning . I sold years ago to a button dealer for $1350. In today's market no doubt now a $2500 plus button and if u need a referral if interested in selling let me know. It indeed is a "Banner " find but unfortunately according to the rules must be dug . However also note that gold thimble I understand was found eyeballing and made Banner. I will wait t se what other members write on that subject. Thanks for showing us a rare one indeed. . Gary
 

DiggerKid2003

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I didnt know they must be dug. I believe someone found a 200 year old journal/pocket book in a desk and made banner. Who knows, amazing find nonetheless.
 

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paleomaxx

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Yeah paleo some of these condederate buttons are worth thousands. Look up a southern confederacy button, they can go around 10k! Nice score btw that button is perfect. And with the rarity of this button, though not dig, should take a trip around the banner.

I saw one of those southern confederacy buttons when I was researching this one and hold cow that's an expensive piece! Can you imagine digging something like that? Talk about a find of the year!

I didnt know they must be dug. I believe someone found a 200 year old journal/pocket book in a desk and made banner. Who knows, amazing find nonetheless.

I saw that post, that journal was super cool. Sometimes amazing stuff ends up in very unexpected places; according to Cobb's population census years back someone found a George Washington Inaugural button stashed in a tree! There really is treasure everywhere. :laughing7:
 

Ljnickerson1457

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Oct 5, 2018
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Hello, I have several very old flat buttons similar to the one in your pictures. Two questions - what does tombac mean (I'm new at this) and how can I tell how old the buttons are that I have.
 

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paleomaxx

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Hello, I have several very old flat buttons similar to the one in your pictures. Two questions - what does tombac mean (I'm new at this) and how can I tell how old the buttons are that I have.

Tombac, in this context, refers to a particular brass alloy that had a much higher zinc content than most modern brass alloys. This made it relatively cheap and it also had the benefit of being soft and therefore easy to etch or scribe. It's quite brassy when freshly made, but in the ground it tarnishes to a steel-gray color. Unlike higher copper content brass, this tarnish forms a passivization layer that's stable so many dug tombac buttons are in quite good shape and, aside from the color, look much as they did when they were lost.

The style of the shank and how it's attached to the button gives the main clues as to the age as well as the backmark (if any). There are a few good tables and diagrams online that are helpful to determining the relative age of flat buttons. In particular I like this one for it's simplicity:

Dating Buttons.jpg
 

Ljnickerson1457

Tenderfoot
Oct 5, 2018
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Thank you very much. Very informative after looking at your attachment, I find that several of the buttons I have are older than I thought. Thanks again.
 

Ljnickerson1457

Tenderfoot
Oct 5, 2018
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Attached are just a few of the buttons that I have. I really don't know if any of them are valuable. P3110001.JPG ; P8180021.JPG
 

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