Engraved Watch Back Plate is 350+ Years-Old! Searching for the Rest.

Silver Tree Chaser

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I recently found this thin piece of brass at a cellar hole site, which produced a late 19th century button and a jaw harp fragment but little else during my 1-2 hour search. At a glance, I thought that it might be a dandy button, but the brass piece was too large and oval-shaped. It was also too thin to be a belt plate, and so I figured it for nothing more than some odd piece of scrap, junk soon to be discarded. But then I noticed it had some engravings, actually some ornate lettering with a name and location – London, though it was engraved “LONDINI.” I was perplexed by the odd spelling. ???

Upon returning home, some light brushing with mineral oil revealed the full engraving, “Samuel Betts, Londini.”

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I considered that I might have found a back plate from a 19th century watch. I googled the inscription and found numerous references to Samuel Betts. It turned out that I was half right and half wrong. It was a back plate from a watch, but it dated back to the mid-1600s - 200 years earlier than what I had thought! “Londini was the spelling for London in Latin, and the earliest watches came in both round and oval shapes.

My online search showed that Samuel Betts was an important early English clockmaker who made both watches and clocks from 1640-1673. He is regarded as a great pioneer in the art and intricacies of watchmaking. His watches are in the British Museum and other notable collections. Some examples of his work are shown below with the same signature found on the dug back plate.

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Similar signature on a Samuel Betts watch.

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British Museum - Date - 1665-1670.

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Colonial Williamsburg Collection - Date - 1665

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Another Betts Watch.

We live in a remarkable age. A slight piece of engraved brass dug from a remote cellar hole offers up a clue of its past, soon revealed with a few key strokes and the click of a mouse. An online search accomplished in mere seconds traces back a history from four centuries ago – amazing!

God only knows what happened to the rest of the watch – its casing, dials, and so forth. This find is terribly incomplete, but I’m still quite happy with its recovery. It’s one of my oldest English finds, and I can absolutely connect it do a single person who lived four centuries ago; moreover, it’s a piece of metal work handmade by this one person, a master craftsman, toiling away in his workshop in 17th century London.

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As might be expected, I made one return trip to the cellar hole in the far-flung hope of finding more of this early watch. The back plate was found along a stone wall at the end of a wagon road approximately 140’ from the cellar hole. I worked this area back & forth making runs ever closer to the cellar hole but came up with no traces of the watch. I did recover an 1817 Matron Head Large Cent in better than expected condition for a dug coin, so I didn’t go home empty-handed. I’ll get back to the cellar hole in the fall for some further searching. It’s not likely that the rest of the watch will ever be found, but you never know.

Good Hunting to All!
 

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mindcrime1988

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Great research Silver Tree Chaser. It is nice being able to use the internet to find all the facts in a matter of seconds. How lucky we have it nowadays.

The coin you found is in excellent shape. Lots of detail still evident. Congrats.
 

ANTIQUARIAN

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That 350+ year old piece is definitely worth being displayed! :thumbsup:

Nice find,
Dave
 

JeffInMass

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What an astounding piece of history- Congrats! That LC is pretty awesome as well..
 

jewelerguy

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that's really special. I would imagine to own a watch at that time you would have to have been quite wealthy
 

villival

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It IS a remarkable age. We are the last generation of history hunters that will be able to find coins. Modern coins will be disintegrated after a few years in the ground and most things are made so cheaply, they won't last long either.

Really cool find. I love this hobby.
 

A2coins

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Great post and great to read and all the info is awesome I lovbe the coin its in good codition and the watch piece thats really cool being that old try to find some more of it lol Great job.....Tommy
 

trdking

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Someone probably took it apart to scrap out the gold in the train pillars and cock Good luck finding any of those pieces Could possibly find more of the plates
 

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Silver Tree Chaser

Silver Tree Chaser

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Great research Silver Tree Chaser. It is nice being able to use the internet to find all the facts in a matter of seconds. How lucky we have it nowadays.

The coin you found is in excellent shape. Lots of detail still evident. Congrats.

I couldn't agree more. Lots of people have joined the hobby over recent years, and we're all contending for the same limited source of older finds. Yet in today's Information Age, we have the benefit of comprehensive, thorough research :read2: that would have seemed impossible 20 years ago.
 

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Silver Tree Chaser

Silver Tree Chaser

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That 350+ year old piece is definitely worth being displayed! :thumbsup:

Nice find,
Dave

Yes, I already have a nice display case for it. I was glad to have carefully handled it until I got home rather than just cramming it in my digging pouch. A close-up view shows a rough rectangle carved into the brass by Betts. I assume it shows his though process in trying to lay out the springs, gears, and other components.
 

smokeythecat

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Stellar find. Oh what these items could tell us!
 

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Silver Tree Chaser

Silver Tree Chaser

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I would think there weren't a lot of folks in 17th century colonial America carrying around such a watch. The cellar hole is located in a town about 14 miles away from Newport, RI, which was fast becoming a prosperous, cosmopolitan port town in the 17th century. My guess is the watch was an heirloom passed down to a family member who eventually settled on land where the cellar hole is located.
 

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Silver Tree Chaser

Silver Tree Chaser

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It IS a remarkable age. We are the last generation of history hunters that will be able to find coins. Modern coins will be disintegrated after a few years in the ground and most things are made so cheaply, they won't last long either.

Really cool find. I love this hobby.

Thanks! I love the hobby as well. You get out of this hobby what you willing to put in with time and effort.
 

IMAUDIGGER

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Yes, accurate time was a commodity in the old days. It was actually sold.
Forget where I read this..had something to do with how the telegraph changed time.
 

xcopperstax

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That watch plate is a very special find! Pretty amazing and it cleaned up really nicely! It is pretty mind-blowing that it could be traced to an actual person in the 1600's! That makes it extra special! One has to wonder where the rest of the watch went? Not just a great find but a great post to go with it! Hope you find the rest of it or more of it! Thanks for sharing!
 

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Silver Tree Chaser

Silver Tree Chaser

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Someone probably took it apart to scrap out the gold in the train pillars and cock Good luck finding any of those pieces Could possibly find more of the plates

Sadly, I think you're correct. The back plate was quite deep and apparently isolated. I would guess that the casings was also silver and would have been scraped. The site is a secluded cellar hole in the woods; it's not a plowed field where other parts might be scattered about by plowing. But I'll give it a go no matter the expectations. Who knows what else I might find? I consider this cellar hole to be a low-yield site - only two coppers and a few buttons along with the back plate. I might hit the site hard in the fall and put my assumptions to the test.
 

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