Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 Machin Mills Counterfeit British Half Penny
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Thread: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 Machin Mills Counterfeit British Half Penny

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  1. #1

    Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

    Worked on this thing for about 8 hrs. Had the ID down to 2. Woke up this morning looked at the date again and could see the "4" very clearly. (last number and only one still there). and everything lined up perfectly. There is only 1 reverse for this year. (the 1784 M.M. isn't even close). So that gave me 3 options on obverses and I already knew which one I had. The "8" obverse has no dot between the "III" and "R" so nix that one. The 7 obverse is "GEORGIUS" not "GEORGIVS" as I have, so nix that one. The only other one was the 3 obverse which I had already matched to the coin so I gave it another look. Matched perfect. Group I Vlack 3-74A at VERY RARE or R-6+, 13-25 or so known specimans. So away I went to a collector friend I know in our area. He himself confirmed it, along with the weight of 6.9 grams which puts it exactly into the known counterfeit weight.(Regals go 9+ grams) BINGO. Coin is being sent to Heratige auctions tomarrow and hopefully will be logged into the Long Beach auction. Coin is also being sent in it's uncleaned form to NCS for a proffessional analysis and cleaning. I didn't want to touch this one. By the way, even though these (group "I" classified) coins were minted in NYC, and are named as "Counterfeit British Half Pence Minted in America", they are classified as "Machin Mills". Something as fact I did not know till I talked to the Rep. @ Heratige.( He is a coin collector too). I know the pics didn't come out good because of all the patina I left on the coin,(I only used warm water), but here they are again.
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    1783 CFT. KG III 1/2 Penny (25-83A)-1 of 3 known *Sold $3,750, Vermont Landscape Coppers Ryder 6 *Sold $760, Ryder7 (Avatar)** Sold $1,275*,1st Batt Royal Artillery Cartridge Box Sling Belt Tip* SOLD $1,583*,(3)- GW Inaugural Buttons-2-Cobb# 17-J.* Sold both--$405 and $400. *GW Button Cobb 17-I-*Sold $316- New Jersey Copper M14-J Sold $125- Continental Army Button *Sold $800--** British 31st ROF Cartridge Box Plate** SOLD!! (PRIVATE AMOUNT), Vermont Ryder-3 *$1200...To be continued

  2. #2
    us
    Dec 2006
    NEPA
    Tejon, Cibola, T2
    2,202
    1140 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

    The lettering position doesn't look right for a 3-74A, but may be from the corrosion? There are many more non-machins counterfeits than there are Machins. I have several Machins pieces including the 3-74A, as well as the much more common counterfeits, they are fascinating pieces. Good luck on yours.

  3. #3

    Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

    Sorry, but I agree with l.cutler, the lettering/spacing and Brittania are not close enough to be a V.3-74A.
    I've already said on your original post that it is not a Machin's but most likely one of the many British made counterfeits and I still stand by that attribution.
    Congrats on the CT copper, I do not think the other coin is a Machin's Mills copper. Again, Red Book is the culprit for so many thinking they have a Machin's Mills copper. The coin does not appear to match the plates for any of the Machin's Mills coins from what I can see from your scan. The coin is more consistant with a typical British counterfeit.

    Also, the Vlack 3-74A is now down to a Rarity 5, must remember, as more are found, either in yard sales or by detectorists, etc., the numbers go up and rarity goes down.

    Don
    "The mantra has always been don't clean a (copper) coin or it will lose value.
    For undug coins this is true. For dug coins this is untrue.
    The value will increase with judicious cleaning."

  4. #4

    Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penny

    Well guys I guess there's only 1 way to truly confirm it. I'll have to clean the corrossion off myself with 100% acetone and a cue tip,( very carefully), and repost before I send it to ANACS. Thanks for the input. Hogge
    1783 CFT. KG III 1/2 Penny (25-83A)-1 of 3 known *Sold $3,750, Vermont Landscape Coppers Ryder 6 *Sold $760, Ryder7 (Avatar)** Sold $1,275*,1st Batt Royal Artillery Cartridge Box Sling Belt Tip* SOLD $1,583*,(3)- GW Inaugural Buttons-2-Cobb# 17-J.* Sold both--$405 and $400. *GW Button Cobb 17-I-*Sold $316- New Jersey Copper M14-J Sold $125- Continental Army Button *Sold $800--** British 31st ROF Cartridge Box Plate** SOLD!! (PRIVATE AMOUNT), Vermont Ryder-3 *$1200...To be continued

  5. #5

    Re: Positive ID- Vlack 3-74A 1774 'Machin Mills' Counterfeit British Half Penn


    Maybe it's just the picture but I see very limited corrosion and if that is the case it's as good as it's going to get. I hope you don't destroy it, it's still a Colonial find.

  6. #6

    Sep 2013
    483
    590 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Great and congratulations, I have been looking into these coppers also as I found 3 counterfeits, and How can you tell it was minted in NYC

    is there a reference book??

    please say yes

 

 

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