NEED HELP Please read UPDATED

[capndan151]

I spoke to the supervisor and he will not take the ticket back so I need to fight this every way i can. If the treasurenet community could help me by calling or writing the hbpd c/o Tim Martin and expressing how you feel about this incident, it would be highly appreciated. [email protected] or 2000 Main Street HB, CA, 92648




Well first off I know this is not a today's find. I could post a picture of the clad I dug today to qualify for this forum but I think what happened today relates to all of us. I was out in a park today with a fellow TH'r when I saw a cop eyeballing us from the street. This guy was about a 120 yards away. He jumps the curb in little police car and proceeds to do a burnout THE ENTIRE LENGTH of the field in order to get to us. This field is basically a dirt lot with some weeds and is completely riddled with gopher holes. I am fanatic about pinpointing and proper digging techniques. This guy tells me that we need to get outta here and before I could even get up from the plug I was replacing, he tells me again get outta here again. I said hold on a minute, first of all there's no sign saying we can't metal detect here and you haven't even given me a chance to stand up. He said there doesn't have to be a sign there's a municipal code prohibiting metal detecting. I said no there isn't because there isn't and he slams his car into park and jumps out of the car and stands right over top of me pointing at me and says now you really pissed me off. I said I pissed you off? How? By telling you that there is no such code. He takes my ID and parks his car in the middle of the field for a half hour and finally comes back with a ticket for vandalism under some generic code saying we had defaced public property. I said ok then point to the place where we defaced something. He just smirked and blushed like a little schoolgirl. He looked around and just laughed and said you can TRY to fight it if you want. The other guy said hold on I want to get you on video pointing to ANY KIND OF DAMAGE other than your burnout tire tracks. This guy gets back into his car and blows us a kiss and burns out AGAIN all the way back down the field leaving another set of tracks!!! I AM NOT A CRIMINAL AND THIS IS A RIDICULOUS USE OF COMMUNITY RESOURCES. This guy is cop in Huntington Beach California and his name is Altenbach and his badge number is #1032. I am going to fight this all the way. If any body has any suggestions please tell me how best to fight back.

 

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[Woodland Detectors]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

This really sucks. It sounds like this guy was upset because he had to work and you were trying to enjoy a peaceful day off. I would file a complaint to his precinct and fight the ticket. You did the right thing by video taping the incident. Unless it is stated in an ordinance, you are not supposed to metal detect there, then he had no right to harass you. My suggestion to you is to just simply find a new place to detect. It's quite obvious this guy gets a kick out of seeing people hurt. Just stay away from him.

Mike

 

[nuggy]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Send a copy of the video with covering letter, to news desks of local tv channels, send one to police chief, another to the mayor, and maybe one to the head of the park maintainance crew. Should get some dust flying. Some people should not be permitted to become police officers, the power goes to their heads if they lack the necessary integrity. Nuggy

 

[mo.nick]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

bro its obvious you were digging in his fav. spot.kidding.

 

[Eric Willoughby]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

A flat-out abuse of power, sadly this is how many officers are being trained to react these days in the large cities in California, New York, Florida, Texas, ect ect ect, get video tape footage of the entire field and explain on video every possible detail and angle of the field and the incident. Go to the police department and file a former complaint against him as well. If you can afford it, get a lawyer, or try to find one that will either work pro-bono, or will at least let you make affordable payments. The lawyer fees should not be that much considering its just a misdemenor ticket. Fight it, dont back down! I had a similar incident with a sheriffs deputy in Dania Beach, Florida during the 4th of July when I was 21 years old. I had bought my fireworks legally, and I was in a legal area to set them off, after letting off one shot from a mortar, this clown shows up in seconds from around the corner, states that I am violating an airport ordinance and that he is going to confiscate my fireworks. I preceeded to ask him questions about how that could possibly be so, considering there are 50 other homes setting off the same exact stuff, he then retorts with a threat of arrest. Now, this is drawing the attention of my grandmother, who comes out of the house and preceeds with her own even tougher questions (she had lived there for 40 years), he then, gets in my grandmothers face, screaming at her and threatens to arrest her. I swear that if he had not left when he did, I was a moment away of giving him a REAL reason for arresting me. Honestly, I wish I had not held back.


Beat this screwball at his own game!

 

[augusthog]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Send a copy of the video with covering letter, to news desks of local tv channels, send one to police chief, another to the mayor, and maybe one to the head of the park maintainance crew. Should get some dust flying. Some people should not be permitted to become police officers, the power goes to their heads if they lack the necessary integrity. Nuggy

I agree with nuggy! Put it on youtube also and go nation wide!

 

[Roland58]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

I certainly hope you got the retreating burnout and other stuff on that video tape! I'm 100% with Nuggy on this one......if the story is exactly as you presented it (and I have no reason to believe it is not) you should be able to burn this "Dirty Harry" wannabe. The only problem with doing so is the resulting potential harrassment from the local PD, as they are a very close knit group.....most of the time.

You did good by standing your ground.....I would have done the same. Make copies of the video!! Post it on here if you can, I would like to see it, for sure!!

 

[MrPoptop]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

We have had some mean citizens throw a fit and threaten to call police and even put our pictures in the paper. aggrivating .
But, there are many more public places to go.
If the police showed up with that kinda interest in us not detecting there, well police can be funny... some will shoot u some will thank you for picking up liter.
Since u have it on camera push it all the way.
Next time, and i know it sucks, "Yes Sir" is the safe way to go.. Just my thoughts.

 

[gmanlight]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Go over his commanding officer , right to local government.
Then find there boss and go to the next level.
Try the news as a wild card ,but remember i don't live there
you do. Good Luck Mike

If you don't have a NO DIG POLICY let us help you.

 

[Damon64]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

A few bad cops seem to ruin it for the rest of the force. Why is this? I guess that's why most people refuse to trust our law enforcement, I have had bad experiences myself and it does affect our overall perception of police.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Capndan,

I'm a cop and I metal detect. Now i'm not, nor would I ever be a cop in the Peoples Republic of California because I'm one of those that beleive STRONGLY in the Constitution and to the rights of individuals and that the government has long been forgeting it's primary duty is to maintain fidellity to that document and, in the case of peace officers, to keep the peace.

There are a few things that I would do, if I were you.

First, contact the director of Parks and Recreation for that particular park by phone and without identifying yourself have a friendly conversation about the hobby and if there are any codes against metal detecting a light sub surface recovery of trash (like pulltabs) and abandoned change. When he says no, ask if you can meet with him and get that in writing. This can be used in court.

Second, contact the office of the chief and have a sit down meeting and file a written complaint. A phone call won't do. a written compliaint will set the wheels in motion and have the matter investigated. Supervisors and police administration don't like it when rookies or any member get hot headed easily with the public because it makes us all look bad. This guy may very well have a list of complaints from numerous citizens and yours could be the straw that breaks the camels back.

Next, if the officer left marks on the park grass, take photos of the damage. Next take video or photos of you yourself finding a target, digging a clean plug, usinging a towl to put the dirt on and then depositing it all back in the hole and making it look like you were never there. You'll use this for court or the next step that might make it all go away...

The next thing to do is to meet with either your city attorney or prosecutor's office, whoever handles misdemeanor cases like this one. Explain the matter as you have here, show any evidence you have: photos, video, your friend should be there too and give your side. If they are smart, they'll drop the case right there.

Finally, be prepared to take this to court, if you have the money, hire an attorney. A couple of hundred bucks is money well spent to be properly represented and defend your rights. Freedom is certainly more valuable than that. If you can't spring for an attorney, be prepared to defend yourself. First the state will call the officer to the stand and he will have to state the case for vandalisim, the prosecutor will ask him questions in order to establish the particular law you've been cited for has been violated. It is to your benefit to pull the statue number and have the exact law and see if he can make that case. Afterward, you'll have the opportunity to directly ask him questions. you cannot make statements during that time, only question the officer. Have a legal pad full of questions about the law, the incident, etc. You can even question him about the damage he did to the park, but no statements.

Once the state rests, you can then call witnesses (your friend), submit evidence to the judge (photos, videos), and then take the stand and testify yourself.

At that point, it's up to the judge. When you walk in, you need to know though, if there's any kind of statute or city ordinance against MD'ing in the park and you need to know the vandalisim statue backwards and forwards.


Hope this helps!

Rooster

 

[billn1956]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

All cops are bad.For the proff of my statment all you have to ask your self is this question.If there are any good cops on that force dont you think they now who the bad ones are ?But they wont get rid of the bad ones or even speak up about them because there are to many of them.They will turn on a good one in a new york minute.And yes one time long ago I was a cop. I dont except to make many friends saying this but it is the truth.

 

[favored papa]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Rooster makes the best case, And in my experience the vast majority of cops are very good people, doing a bad job. One most of us would never do. They mostly see the worst of people and the worst of events. Think about it, would you like to spend hours at a crash seen, or crime seen where people (children) died. And always, the next person they talk to may try to kill them. All that and most of them still try to be polite and reasonable.

That being said there are bad apples in all walks of life. Roosters advice is right on.

 

[Historyhound]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

I would LOVE to see that video. Can ya post it??

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

I certainly hope you got the retreating burnout and other stuff on that video tape! I'm 100% with Nuggy on this one......if the story is exactly as you presented it (and I have no reason to believe it is not) you should be able to burn this "Dirty Harry" wannabe. The only problem with doing so is the resulting potential harrassment from the local PD, as they are a very close knit group.....most of the time.

You did good by standing your ground.....I would have done the same. Make copies of the video!! Post it on here if you can, I would like to see it, for sure!!

I hope you have a video of the burn out if not go back and get it and send it to everyone.
The cops are rediculous and have a very basic understanding of the laws they are hired to enforce.
Grrrrrr!!!!

 

[capndan151]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Thanks everybody for some good advice (rooster, thank you). I am going to try to post a video of immediately after the second burnout. The only problem is its on my iphone and the video is too long. I am still stunned that this happened. 7 years of detecting the same areas and the only thing a cop has ever said to me is did you find anything good? or that seems like a cool hobby where do I get one of those things? I love this hobby and I take EXTREME measures to leave the places i go better than when I found them. This is truly becoming a police state when the list of things you can do is much shorter than the things that are supposedly illegal. This used to be a free country.

 

[gemee]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

All cops are bad.

That is really not an intelligent comment.

 

[Daedalus]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Make a copy of the video or save one somewhere , And try to find a lawyer that will help you with this. And I would go to the TV stations after speaking to a Lawyer , in less he said not to.

I spoke to one of my family members who was a Cop for may years and he read this and said if true then this guy may have a real bad issue and it could lead to something worse. That he needs to be checked and looked at by the force and the City.

Monday morning I would be on this and not let it go for days , just in case the Cop tries to cover it up to cover hiss a** .

 

[staydetuned]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

No, that was good work standing up for yourself. I think this needs to happen more often, if only in the sense that if you immediately give in it makes it look like we think what we are doing is wrong. Like most of us I've had 99% positive comments and intrigued questioning. Yes, it's a bit different with a police officer, but assuming you're being respectful to your site we should not act guilty and let others who simply don't understand what we're doing tell us what we can and can't do.

That said, I lived in Huntington Beach for a long time. I always heard they were the worst cops around (at least in OC) and I experienced it firsthand often enough. I agree that it's mostly good people doing a bad job, but as in any job there are the bad ones. Your story speaks for itself.

Good work maintaining your (and our) rights out there.

Did you find anything good??

 

[spitfire55]

Re: NEED HELP Please read

Here is the city site so you can do a little research that's if you haven't done so already.
http://www.huntingtonbeachca.gov/government/charter_codes/municipal_code.cfm
I've been through a similar ordeal myself but, the thing is to always keep your cool when you're approached by one of these renegade public/city employees.
My situation forced me to direct every enquire about "Recreational Metal Detecting" in city areas directly to the parks and recreation manager. It was a very rewarding conversation and learning channel between the both of us. We came to a common ground on the issue at hand.
I Kept yourself focused on what I wanted to accomplish and channel the rest of my personal matter away from the objective. You've got to make a difficult decision I know but, Be cool and remove that chip from your shoulder because you will make it through this incident with flying colors.