Trespassing with permission?

[Red James Cash]

Silverfinder99, I commend you for standing your ground

don't know what state you live in, but from what I have been told and how I was raised, you don't question or harass a police officer. Just blows my mind!

You have every right to question authority.A badge doesnt make the wearer right.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[White Feather]

It would seem to me that a simple permission form to hunt the property would have defused the entire situation. I have revised my insurance without changing addresses but that was within the state. Right now my insurance has this address and my license has another address 500 miles away but in the same state. Had you said you were still changing locations and were still living in both states you may have been given a little slack. Arguing with the law officer over permission to hunt a site will only get you more grief. The little paper permission will remove all power from her sails and she will have to back off. The tag issue was questionable at best and would most likely have been dropped if you had proof that you were being allowed to hunt the area. Calling a number for an office that may have many people answering the phones is asking for trouble. If the wrong person answers you could get a trespassing ticket or be thrown off the property or in jail, depending on the officer's attitude or mood at the time. Why ask for trouble or unwanted attention? Just get permission in writing from the property owner and be done with it.

Also, we are getting enough of a bad rap for trespassing and destruction of historic and other important sites. Being beligerant and pushing their buttons will not do our reputation or hobby any good. There is already to many "reality" shows showing us as backhoe digging site destroying bandits and pirates. we need more goodwill and less contention with those looking after other people's rights. When our hobby starts stepping on the rights of others we become the problem. Sorry, but I think we should be the curtious, friendly and trustworthy ones. If there is nothing for them to harrass us over then we will all be much better off.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

white-feather, I know written-permission sounds logical to have avoided such a thing, and it "rolls off the tongue", but consider some things:

If someone tells you: "sure, go ahead", but then you follow that by thrusting a legal document in front of them to "sign", that can sometimes be the FASTEST way to get a "yes", turned to a "no". I mean, perhaps not if you're their personal friend, but if it's a total stranger, and they're being asked to sign something, then ..... put yourself in THEIR shoes ! It only conjurs up some sort of legal questions, and simply implies some sort of hassles or dangers (lest why would you be showing them something to sign, if it were harmless and innocuous??). That subconscious implication is not lost on the property owner, and it only gives them pause to reconsider!!

So if it were me, I'd consider this entire poor stories thread to be an anomoly, and a simple case of an over-zealous cop. Period end of story. It does NOT mean that: "ergo, we should all go run around with contracts for people to sign". I mean, if you invite someone into your home (a friend, a relative, a stranger, etc....), and they say: "ok, but first give me a permission slip allowing me to do so", what would you say? You'd tell them, nah, it's fine, just come in and make yourself comfortable. Right? So too was the person who, in this thread, who originally gave the verbal ok, maybe was equally as un-concerned. I mean, who could have forseen such an odd-ball cop? It's the anomoly, not the "rule", if you ask me.

 

[cudamark]

I agree with Tom.......keep under the radar as best as you can. If confronted, be polite, gather pertinent information, and follow the orders of the official. Naturally, if your rights are being violated, you need to file charges but try not to let it get that far. I'm sure you'd rather be hunting somewhere (even if it's not where you want), than be totally satisfied that you were right and sitting on the couch because all the hunting areas are now off limits because permission is more hassle than it's worth to give.

 

[Sir Gala Clad]

Something is wrong here, and I mean more than with the police officer who could off or could not handled it better?
No Trespassing - is No Trespassing, it applies to all.

What I see is preferential treatment and I don't like this at all!

If you were allowed to metal detect by the airport manager, then all metal detectorist(s) should be given the same opportunity. The same holds true for those who picnic / gather nuts.

This could be easily accomplished by issuing passes with published defined rules and requirements. Your signature would verify that you would abide by those rules.

No police officer should be put in that position. Their job is to enforce security - I would say that if she spent one hour with you, she was more than patient - her time was needlessly wasted.

 

[maipenrai]

So, if I ask someone if I can detect on their property, and they say yes, should I also demand that everyone else should be allowed to detect there also? Sounds like the fastest way to end detecting. And do you think they would give these permits free? Detecting license, same as fishing license. And some of us hunt in hundreds of places, should we have a permit for each and everyone? If im driving by a park or other place I think might be a good place to detect, and it happens to be on the weekend, what then? No permit, no detecting?

The permit idea sounds good at first, but then who would make the detecting rules? Would we have to attend a detecting class, before we get the permit? Of course each county, city and state would have their own permit system. I can see this is a can of worms! Eventually, someone would decide that detecting should only be done on certain hours, so as not to interfere with other peoples use of the park.

 

[Digs68]

Yup, I agree with most on here to chalk it up to an over-zealous officer and just continue on. I've hunted many places where the commander/landowner/manager/etc. told me that, if I had any problems, or someone gave me trouble, just tell them that so-and-so said it was okay. I don't recall one time that I ever had to drop a name to any looky-loos or folks questioning me.
I have had plenty of run-ins with over-zealous officers through the years. Most of which were completely innocent on my part. There are good and bad in all professions. I would attempt another hunt & see if she comes around harassing you again. I would then file a complaint against her. I would go even farther if she arrests you. In the mean time, I would not stir any unnecessary trouble, but I wouldn't let her run you off either if you have full consent to be there.

 

[Tnmountains]

Listen anything to do now near an air port is going to be questioned now days and not everyone is in the loop. It may have been where she took her naps I do not know. I often portage a kayak to detect an area near an air port. I call the guy every time I go to just let him know I am back there. Better safe than sorry. Many of the police are pretty sheltered and not very knowledgable on our hobby so better safe than sorry. It seems you went the right route in obtaining permission and worked it out and hope that you go back and make many finds. I have never hesitated to request a supervisor if an officer was out of line or unreasonable. Their training does not always prepare them for many things and sometimes everyone makes poor judgment.
Permission is golden now days. Glad you worked it out.
HH
TnMtns

 

[Silverfinder99]

It would seem to me that a simple permission form to hunt the property would have defused the entire situation. I have revised my insurance without changing addresses but that was within the state. Right now my insurance has this address and my license has another address 500 miles away but in the same state. Had you said you were still changing locations and were still living in both states you may have been given a little slack. Arguing with the law officer over permission to hunt a site will only get you more grief. The little paper permission will remove all power from her sails and she will have to back off. The tag issue was questionable at best and would most likely have been dropped if you had proof that you were being allowed to hunt the area. Calling a number for an office that may have many people answering the phones is asking for trouble. If the wrong person answers you could get a trespassing ticket or be thrown off the property or in jail, depending on the officer's attitude or mood at the time. Why ask for trouble or unwanted attention? Just get permission in writing from the property owner and be done with it.

Also, we are getting enough of a bad rap for trespassing and destruction of historic and other important sites. Being beligerant and pushing their buttons will not do our reputation or hobby any good. There is already to many "reality" shows showing us as backhoe digging site destroying bandits and pirates. we need more goodwill and less contention with those looking after other people's rights. When our hobby starts stepping on the rights of others we become the problem. Sorry, but I think we should be the curtious, friendly and trustworthy ones. If there is nothing for them to harrass us over then we will all be much better off.

As I mentioned, I was given business cards of the Grounds manager of the airport. I was given these just in case anybody asked me what I was doing there. All this cop had to do was simply call the person on the card and it would have been a settled deal since this guy on the business card is one of the head honchos at the airport. She was simply trying to be a bully and refused to check my story from my sources. I could have had a letter typed on airport leader head and signed by the person who gave me permission and she wouldn't have even looked at it, just the same way as she refused to even look at the business card I tried to hand her.
Good news is, my buddy who got me permission to hunt the place to begin with is now interested in trying metal detecting out and asked me to take him hunting and I know just the place to go.....

 

[Silverfinder99]

Something is wrong here, and I mean more than with the police officer who could off or could not handled it better?
No Trespassing - is No Trespassing, it applies to all.

What I see is preferential treatment and I don't like this at all!

If you were allowed to metal detect by the airport manager, then all metal detectorist(s) should be given the same opportunity. The same holds true for those who picnic / gather nuts.

This could be easily accomplished by issuing passes with published defined rules and requirements. Your signature would verify that you would abide by those rules.

No police officer should be put in that position. Their job is to enforce security - I would say that if she spent one hour with you, she was more than patient - her time was needlessly wasted.

I agree with you to a point. Her time was needlessly wasted but at her own fault. All she had to do was call the guy on the card...problem solved. Enforce security? There is at any given time dozens of people in this same area walking or picking up pecans from one of the hundreds of pecan trees on the property who "didn't have permission" to be there. This was just a matter of her seeing somebody doing something out there that's different from what everybody else out there doing. I didn't receive any special treatment, my buddy simply asked his boss if there would be any problem with me metal detecting there and from what my buddy told me his boss said I don't care who's on that part of the property, at least he's not there doing dope like most of the other "visitors" in that location do.

 

[B1u3Dr4g0n1]

I don't know what state you live in, but from what I have been told and how I was raised, you don't question or harass a police officer. Just blows my mind!

Thats your choice....but in a free country you have rights and this cop had NONE...

 

[poorman15]

Had a DCNR officer in PA last weekend ask me that. It is legal to hunt state parks but you are supposed to use a screwdriver type tool. I found a deep target in a stone parking lot next to my truck. Just happened to have a spade in the truck. I probably shouldn't have but started digging the target with the spade and in rolled the ranger. He asked if I was finding anything and I said pop tops and beer cans. He told me I shouldn't be using a shovel but as long as I didn't leave any anti-tank holes we'd have no problem. I always try to leave my holes as clean and neat as possible when finished, sometimes it's even hard to tell there was a plug dug. Anyways, not all people with badges are horse rear ends.

 

[poorman15]

I don't know what state you live in, but from what I have been told and how I was raised, you don't question or harass a police officer. Just blows my mind!

Sir,
Cops are human as well. Some have attitudes and think they know everything. Others are well mannered and actualy find out the truth before taking any action. This Officer was out of line from this side of the story. There are always two sides of course. A person has the right to defend themselves if they are being wronged, even by a cop. Notice in his story he told her that she couldn't search his truck and she dropped it. He had that right and unless she observed something from standing outside that would fit into the plain view doctrine......... She had no right and of course she knew that. I just hate seeing people treated like a criminal just for doing a hobby that is actually good for the environment, except for those that find trash and push it back in the hole which really ticks me off. Take the good with the bad folks!

 

[tims1chap]

Remember some folks can never admit to being wrong as they view it as a sign of weakness. You were new to the area and she wanted to show you who was in control.

 

[Old as Dirt]

The only thing you did wrong, Silverfinder99..... is forgot the BOX OF DONUTS to have on hand. LOL...

 

[allen]

This has never happened to me while detecting but while fishing
it happened and me and the game warden was nose to nose and
and thank God the owner of the lake showed up to clear the mess
up before me and the game warden started throwing down big time.

 

[damiani1]

I have never had and trouble yet *tap on wood* but if I ever get in a sticky situation I have some things lined up to say. I am 18 but I look like im 13-14 literally. If I ever have someone approach me to start trouble im going to say, "I am looking for my moms ring wedding ring she lost here."

 

[Rogerv]

Years ago my wife was out doing a driving lesson with my son when a local town cop pulled them over. He hadn't done anything wrong upon approaching the car the officer immediately started reading my son the riot act and would not even let him answer a question. My wife asked whats the problem officer he answered for her to but out and then looked into the car and asked who she was in which she answered his mother. He then choked up and said that he thought that there was a tail light out but realized he was wrong and proceeded to drive away. He just wanted to harass my son because he was a young driver. in a Chevy Chevette yet. So there are some that the badge goes to their head.

 

[twoauers]

By law, you only had an ok from the Manager, and not Permission from the Airport Authority, a Manager can not act in place of the Authority, reguardless of his title or Business card. So She had grounds to question all of this. Also, premission to have a Vechicle on Gov. land also requires proper liscense, registration and yes- insurance as per Goverment regulations, so in Truth you are very lucky she did not bring you in for further questioning.

I agree with you it was an un-necessary hasel on her part and her attitude un-called for, but- you should also take responsibility for yourself ahead of trouble- and know the laws before you start that kind of activity.

You well know that Detectors cause eyebrows to rise, and anything you do to with them causes suspicion. Reguardless of what rights we all think we have, we all have our own common sense to use before trouble starts. The incident shows what happens to all of us, when we do not prepair properly to hunt.

A friend of a friend is not legal authority for use! we all need to be smarter than this.

I am sorry for the tone of this. See, I love to hunt too, and I am also red in anger about our lost of rights- but please think here- we are already loosing our rights to hunt as it is, so things like this make it harder on all of us to keep the places to hunt on. Please be smarter than this next time- we all really do have a responsibility to do that. Get the proper permissions first. Not a Business Card, and not your personal ok to bring extra buddies.

Like I said sorry for the tone here, but it is a perfect example of what not to do.




I wish you the best and no bad hunts for your future in the Hobby.
Jon in nashville

 

[Tom_in_CA]

By law, you only had an ok from the Manager, and not Permission from the Airport Authority, a Manager can not act in place of the Authority, reguardless of his title or Business card. So She had grounds to question all of this. Also, premission to have a Vechicle on Gov. land also requires proper liscense, registration and yes- insurance as per Goverment regulations, so in Truth you are very lucky she did not bring you in for further questioning.

I agree with you it was an un-necessary hasel on her part and her attitude un-called for, but- you should also take responsibility for yourself ahead of trouble- and know the laws before you start that kind of activity.

You well know that Detectors cause eyebrows to rise, and anything you do to with them causes suspicion. Reguardless of what rights we all think we have, we all have our own common sense to use before trouble starts. The incident shows what happens to all of us, when we do not prepair properly to hunt.

A friend of a friend is not legal authority for use! we all need to be smarter than this.

I am sorry for the tone of this. See, I love to hunt too, and I am also red in anger about our lost of rights- but please think here- we are already loosing our rights to hunt as it is, so things like this make it harder on all of us to keep the places to hunt on. Please be smarter than this next time- we all really do have a responsibility to do that. Get the proper permissions first. Not a Business Card, and not your personal ok to bring extra buddies.

Like I said sorry for the tone here, but it is a perfect example of what not to do.




I wish you the best and no bad hunts for your future in the Hobby.
Jon in nashville

Jon, please *think* about your answer. Do you realize why you are saying such scolding "you should have known better" type things? Simply because you are reading about the events in slow-motion after-the-fact. Had the OP had a great time, and found 4 gold coins with no one caring less, you'd have been the first one to have chimed in with "atteboy" and "congradulations" and "good thing you knew a friend-of-a-friend to ask". But since the OP "gets grief", it's very easy for Monday morning quarterbacks to screech: "you should have known better" and "you should have gone to the top top mayor for written permission" blah blah blah. And your "observations" seem "un-assailable" to the casual reader and fellow arm-chair quarterback. Why? Because you guys are all reading of this in past tense bootings. No one will say "the lady was a kook" or "you were sufficient with your lowly underling's permission", because .... ONLY IN-LIEU of the booting, do we NOW look at it and think "you should have known". See the pyschological trick of slow-mo-replay?

And I do indeed dispute the notion that am employee can not grant authority, EVEN IF HE'S NOT THE TOP TOP TOP dog. I mean, that would be like if I was a skittish person, and arrived at a park in a city I was passing through. If I asked the fellow who's mowing the lawn "is it ok if I metal detect here?", let's say he says "go ahead". BUT WAIT! Perhaps he's only the low-paid underling. So *certainly* I need to over-step his say-so, and go ask his supervisor, right? So he refers me to his supervisor. That supervisor ALSO says "go ahead". BUT WAIT! He too is a mere underling who reports to someone above him as well, right? So I go to head of the entire public work's of that city, and ask him "can I?". He too says "go ahead". BUT WAIT! That guy only "reports" to higher ups above him. They mayor, the city council, etc... So .... WHERE DOES IT STOP? The president? God himself? Thus no, you've got it wrong. Underlings indeed are "subrogated authority" to make day-to-day decisions in the field. And if they do something wrong, that's THEIR problem. You went on their say-so, in good faith.

Thus no, the lady was a kook being a weenie.