Congressman Raul Grijalva to shut down mining and Treasure Trove in Arizona

[the blindbowman]

i would hope they under stand the damge in the past is not the same as today ....most i have known or seen are far more respectfull of the nature and land they hunt on now days that goes for hunting as well as treasure trove hunting . most are not teenagers ....i am working with new computers and sat internet so i have not seen this post yet tell today ... good luck to all ...

 

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[gollum]

Ok Folks,

I just got my reply from Raul Grijalva. If you want to see what my initial message to him was, it is above. Here is his reply:

"Dear Mr. McChesney :



Thank you for writing to me about mining on federal lands. I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the issue.



I strongly feel that the 1872 General Mining Act is outdated and needs to be reformed in order to better reflect our modern society's values with regard to protection of our public lands. I intend to work with Natural Resources Committee Chairman Nick J. Rahall, Jr. on reforming the Act during the 110 th Congress.



With regard to what you heard about the possible banning of treasure trove hunting and other small-scale activities such as rockhounding , nothing could be further from the truth. I can assure you that activities with negligible impacts on the public lands, such as those not requiring earth-moving equipment, construction of roads, or the use of toxic or hazardous materials, will not be affected by our effort to reform the Mining Act.



Thank you again for communicating with me. I hope you will stay in touch on other matters of importance to you.



Sincerely,

Raul M. Grijalva

Member of Congress"

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

YEAH?? ""First step, "I assure you -" next step "unfortunately some do not --" third step " that not in our dept. or expertise, so to clarify, I will turn it over to the dept of Archaeology for their interpretation and management".

Fourth and final step "you will need a travel permit to leave your place / area of residence, also cash will no longer be legal to circumvent those that have been bypassing our legal system of fair taxation and illegal drug money laundering.

Don't laugh, this has been done in other countries, with the exception of credit cards, so far.

Get used to it , your kiddies will live under these basics.

snifff


Don Jose de La Mancha Tropical Tramp

p..s the uiltiate fate of non-voters or victims of propaganda those that do..

 

[the blindbowman]

have any of you used the new vista windows yet . i just got 3 new computers and the op system takes some real work to get it to relate to diffrent hardwear and softwear . red and to much security to protect the system . they are in fact trying to not only protect us from others that may try to infect our comeputers as well as trying to protect us from our own misguided tasks .. mainly protecting us from us . the value of us is a vast scale where logic defines the mass .. in all mass there is good as well as bad . how much of ether can be controlled yet remember for ever action there is a reaction thus one effect relates to the mass as well as its parts . or subgroups with in the mass ....

sorry i am a logain . i have been writeing logic codes from the age of 14 ......

the piont is and i have to agree with mrs oro ....not for some of the same reason as well as the over all odds and ratio that tells me she is not only right but what may happen or could happen given the unknown vs the past record of our goverments relate handleing of diffrent matters in our behalfs ....

 

[djui5]

Don't use VISTA! If it's on your computer, install XP. Vista is a nightmare.

 

[djui5]

Well I heard back from Raul, this is what he said:

March 19, 2007

Dear Mr. Wright :



Thank you for contacting me regarding the reform of the 1872 Mining Act. I appreciate your taking the time to communicate with me about this important issue.

I must respectfully disagree with you about reform of the Mining Act of 1872. This 135 year old law is in dire need of reform and I have strongly supported efforts to update the law since being elected to Congress. The Mining Act simply has not kept pace with the evolving values of our modern society in terms of protection of our special public lands and waters. Indeed, the environmental degradation that has been left behind by old mines is one of the top pollution sources in the West. It is one of my highest priorities in the 110th Congress to see this law reformed.

Among other things, the law must be updated to create mining-free zones to protect important wildlife habitat, scenic, historic and cultural resources, and water quality. In areas where mining is still allowed, mining companies must begin to pay royalties and fees to the American taxpayers for the resources they extract. In addition, the federal government must require adequate bonding in order to ensure that clean up of mining sites takes place, so that companies are no longer allowed to abandon mines, which has resulted in billions of dollars in clean up costs funded by the American taxpayer. Lastly, the patenting of mining claims, which results in almost-free privatization of public lands, must stop altogether.

In the 109th Congress, I was a cosponsor of H.R. 3968, a bill sponsored by Congressman Nick Rahall. The bill has not yet been introduced, but I will be cosponsoring it again as soon as it is.

Thank you again for communicating with me regarding this important matter. I hope you will keep in touch with me about other issues of concern to you.



Sincerely,

Raul M. Grijalva

Member of Congress

--

And here is my response:

Raul,
Thanks for your response. While I do agree with you on some things, I
also don't agree on others.

I do agree that the mining industry could use some revisions on how it
handles it's waste. It is common knowledge that mining in large
quantities produces lots of hazaderous waste, and I think finding an
eco friendly solution would be good for all parties involved. I'm all
about saving the planet

Some things I don't agree on is your campaign to end mining entirely. I
think this is a ludacris idea in itself, as mining is responsible for a
lot of the products we use on a daily basis, like copper. Without
copper we wouldn't have the penny, or some plumbing, or air
conditioning. Without gold we wouldn't have mother boards for
computers, or the shields on space helmets, etc. It also gives jobs to
a lot of citizens, and pays a lot of taxes to the Government. On a
smaller level, there are 10's of thousands of good hearted American
citizens who mine and prospect either as a hobby, or as a lifestyle.
These are the people paying taxes to the Government, working good jobs,
living full American lives. These people are the "bread and butter" of
our Country.

I also think doing away with the patenting of mining claims is also a
bad move. There are better ways of finding a common agreement between
the mining industry and the eco friendly types. I also fail to see how
privatizing of state land is such an issue with you. The state sells
trust land all the time to developers, who destroy the land in an
effort to make money building housing developments. They have been
known to remove such precious things as ancient Indian Petroglyphs,
drawn on rocks thousands of years ago, and moved so someone could sell
a house.

I hope I have given you some thought about what your doing. I truely
feel you don't know exactly what your getting into, or who your hurting
with your aggressive campaign against mining. I will always support you
in an effort to find a more eco friendly way to deal with mining waste
and land management, but will not support you in destroying the
livelyhood of so many Americans.

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

You might have added: And should you continue down this illconceived path, I, and everyone I know, will work to get your opponent elected the next time your turn is up. I probably have access to 200 (voting age) people, or so, and each of them probably know a like number. You might want to get out a calculator on this one.

Not that I think that will change his mind......but just think if you did it.

Joe

 

[djui5]

I wrote something similar, but deleted it as I didn't want to come across as "threatening"...

Probably would have been a good idea though..

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

It's interesting that this guy's name is "Grijalva". Did you ever consider that he might be trying to protect some family secrets......like treasure? That name goes a furr piece back in "treasure" history..... Back to the Conquistadors.

In LDM history, it pops up a number of times. The first time would be in connection with Blas Peralta.

Joe

 

[djui5]

Well now isn't that interesting! Maybe I should recontact this guy, and offer him a few beers instead

 

[djui5]

Joe which Blas Peralta There were two of them in Sonora.

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

The following can be found on page 187 of "Wandering Peoples" by, Cynthia Radding:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the eve of the expulsion of the Jesuits, Don Salvador Julián Moreno owned the Hacienda de Jamaica and let out some of the land to tenant families. Don Salvador and his wife, Doña Beatriz Vázquez, together held property in Tonibabi and Toiserobabi, a ranch in the vicinity of Oposura, in addition to the hacienda -- now christened San Joseph de Jamaica. In 1765, Moreno burdened his estate with a capellanía -- a lien that generated an annual interest payment of 5 percent -- to benefit his son Joseph Maria Buenaventura Moreno, who was studying for the priesthood at the Colegio de San Yldefonso in Mexico City. The principal totaled 4,000 pesos: half that amount came from the legacy (which Don Salvador and Doña Beatriz had matched) of Juan Joseph de Grijalba, a secular priest and family friend. Thirty years later, the capellanía remained in place, but the hacienda had deteriorated to the point that the annual payments of 200 pesos had lapsed.

Subsequently the Moreno family lost ownership of Jamaica, and the hacienda was split into several smaller properties. In 1773, Blas Peralta, a long-time resident of Jamaica, registered two contiguous pieces of land measuring approximately six-tenths of a sitio. One portion, named San Antonio de la Plateria, he had received in inheritance from his grandfather; the second portion he purchased as grazing land, a realengo referred to as "lo de Argüelles." Blas's mother and aunt had sold off sections of their joint inheritance, and Blas wanted to secure this part in which to run his livestock. Peralta's property bordered on Cumpas mission lands to the north; to the east and south it met the private holdings of Juan and Pedro Ballesteros; and to the west it abutted the hacienda. Juan Mazón, teniente de alcalde mayor y capitán a guerra, proprietor of the Hacienda de Jécori, approved Peralta's petition and forwarded it to Arizpe. It was not until 1789 that Licenciado Alonso Tresierra y Cano, teniente letrado y subdelegado, authorized Peralta's claim in the name of the intendant, avowing that it did not violate the property rights of the pueblo of Cumpas or of any individual Indian families.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

For a little more information on the Grijalva or Grijalba family name, and more specifically how it ties into the LDM, you might try a search on the LDM Forum. We had a number of conversations on the subject of that name.

Joe

 

[djui5]

Ok, thanks Joe

 

[djui5]

Get em!!!!!!

 

[paratrooper]

Being a truck driver I have been to about a jillion places . One of them was The Morenci Mine in Morenci AZ which is owned by Phelps Dodge . Quite simply put ....this is the LARGEST copper mine in the world . Now let's do some math . We stop mining copper . Copper has a value . If we can't get copper for all our computer , IT and related needs we are forced to use gold . (Aluminum is NOT an option) . Does anyone want to figure out how much a desk top computer will cost at that point ? The wiring ? All the other units that use copper ? Trust me it's staggering .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI a small point but notice that the Jamaica property was mortgaged for $4000 pesos with an annual payment of $200 pesos which couldn't be met, . this for a huge estate.

This tends to put things in a different prospective when we talk of a treasure ship carrying a million plus, or a mine producing say $100,000 in those days, sheesh. Inflation has hit us extremely hard.

When I first arrived in Mexico in 55, a laborer received .50 centavos daily $5 pesos was a high wage. this with the exchange @ 12 :1. Now the average laborer's daily wage is $20 -$30 dollars US with SS etc. etc., benefits, , with many college jobs running $700 - 800 + Us a month to start right out of college, and they are going up...

Now Mexico has super highways, modern cities, super markets, conveniences etc etc. .The town of Alamos, where I live had 4 vehicles when i arrived, now it has traffic jams and no place to park downtown. Mexico is exploding in her economy, yet many US citzens still think of her as some one sleeping in a serape under a large sombrero in the sun, or plowing with an ox in a small corn patch.

Recently when I was in Az one of the state legislator's was extremely surprised when i informed him that Mexico had super multi lane divided hi ways, electricity in all towns, SS. etc. he was actually shocked, hmmm.


Don Jose de La Mancha Tropical Tramp

 

[djui5]

This is his reply to my other e-mail. Seems this toolbox isn't even replying to his own mail:


Dear Mr. Wright :



Thank you for contacting me regarding the reform of the 1872 Mining Act. I appreciate your taking the time to communicate with me about this important issue.

I agree with you that the Mining Act of 1872 is in dire need of reform and I have strongly supported efforts to update the law since being elected to Congress. The Mining Act simply has not kept pace with the evolving values of our modern society in terms of protection of our special public lands and waters, and it is one of my top priorities in the 110th Congress to see this law reformed.

Among other things, the law must be updated to create mining-free zones to protect important wildlife habitat, scenic, historic and cultural resources, and water quality. In areas where mining is still allowed, mining companies must begin to pay royalties and fees to the American taxpayers for the resources they extract. In addition, the federal government must require adequate bonding in order to ensure that reclamation of mining sites takes place. Lastly, the patenting of mining claims, which results in the privatization of public lands, must stop altogether.

In the 109th Congress, I was a cosponsor of H.R. 3968, a bill sponsored by Congressman Nick Rahall. The bill has not yet been introduced, but I will be cosponsoring it again as soon as it is.

Thank you again for communicating with me regarding this important matter. I hope you will keep in touch with me about other issues of concern to you.



Sincerely,

Raul M. Grijalva

Member of Congress

 

[Zephyr]

I'm sure that after all the "royalties", "fees", and "bonding" (and other strangling paperwork) he wants are implemented, that would pretty much drive all of the small mining operations out-of-business.
The best way to counter these turkeys is to publically show everybody how much economic and tax revenue would be lost if their plans were put into operation. Then ask them how they would redress the budget deficits and loss of business they intend to create.

Money doesn't talk to get attention, it screams....

 

[the blindbowman]

let them do what they want , it will not make any difference what so ever... if you have any doubt what so ever , think about the over all effects of these legends on the over all history and economy of not only that local area but the state and the Federal government as well. if any of you think for one minute that this legends do not live up to the hype your mistaken ....

i still have reason to believe these legends hold a value of $500 million +,not to forget the fact that they will change history in dozens of ways not only at a local level but at Federal level as well...

they can pass any dam thing they want, it will not make a difference ,what do you think? they can close the Mt's off from all public use . that would be totally nuts to even try ...

do you think there well not be a modern gold rush ? LOL


we are talking about the mother load of all gold mining as its known ....

we talking about one of the richest legends known and if i am right the tunnel mine under the LDM being a vastly rich ore vane ....
add the jesuit trove or the Aztec treasure and what they do well not matter at all ... fact !

we are 9 months from making our findings public ...you guys hold them off and i will show you what i am talking about Feb 1st of 2008....the LDM has been found ...we are collecting evidence to prove it is the LDM ,we are no longer looking for the LDM ....