Legality of MDing parks and curb strips

[jamiefind]

Hi, all. I am curious as to how curb strip and park MDing is allowed in other states. The rationale I have read on these boards is that the city owns the property and therefore MDing is permitted. Some posters do not seem to even think city permission is required (finder's law maybe?). Logic demands permission from the city, and at least in my state of Mississippi, removing or excavating things from lands owned by political subdivisions of the state (cities) requires a permit or contract from the state Dept of Archives & History.

I'm a lawyer, a metal detectorist, an engineer, and a history buff, and I am wondering if other states genuinely have different laws, or if the curb strip / park hunters out there are just not concerned about the law (or think that enforcement is unlikely against amateurs so long as nothing truly significant is found, etc.).

I have summarized our state's antiquities law below, and I would love to see an intelligent discussion as to whether other states are different. I can't imagine there is that much variation. I am not a typical lawyer...don't really like them, and I am not interested in judging anyone for doing what they do. This post is intended to be good natured. Thoughts?

1) STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT LANDS: AUTOMATIC PROTECTION OF SHIPS AND TREASURE. All sunken ships of the sea and their contents, and all treasure embedded in the earth or located on/under the surface of land owned by the state or its subdivisions (e.g., counties, cities), including its riverbeds, are declared to be state landmarks and the state's sole property and may not be taken/salvaged/excavated without express permission of the state Dept of Archives & History. See MS Code § 39-7-9.

2) STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT LANDS: AUTOMATIC PROTECTION OF ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT THINGS. All other sites, objects, buildings, artifacts, implements, and locations of archaeological significance (including prehistoric and historical American Indian or aboriginal sites and things, and archaeological sites of every character) located on/under the surface of land owned by the state or its subdivisions (e.g., counties, cities) are declared to be state landmarks and the state's sole property and may not be taken/salvaged/excavated without express permission of the state Dept of Archives & History. See MS Code § 39-7-11(1).

3) STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT LANDS: POSSIBLE PROTECTION OF HISTORICALLY OR ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT THINGS. All other sites, objects, buildings, artifacts, implements, structures, and locations of historical or archaeological significance located in/under the surface of land owned by the state or its subdivisions (e.g., counties, cities) may be declared to be state landmarks by the state Dept of Archives & History and may not be taken/salvaged/excavated without the Dept's express permission. See MS Code § 39-7-11(2).

4) PRIVATE LANDS: HISTORICALLY OR ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT THINGS. Only with the written consent of the landowner, any site on private land may be determined to have sufficient archaeological, historical, or architectural significance and declared to be a state landmark by the state Dept of Archives & History. No such designated sites or items may be taken/salvaged/excavated without the Dept's express permission. Both the designation and the landowner's written permission must be recorded in the county land records. See MS Code § 39-7-11(3) & -13.

 

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[Muddyhandz]

I honestly don't think the legality makes any difference on the issue of curb strips/boulevards.
Find out that it's o.k. (city property) and head out there and spend some time detecting those strips and have numerous homeowners come out and yell at you.
Angry women calling you an effing welfare bum; cops showing up, wasting their time from catching real criminals; hen-pecked husbands picking a fight.....
Nothing but hassles! Because homeowners maintain that strip, they will protect it whether you prove to them it's city property or not.

I will not hunt them anymore unless it's a construction site (sidewalk tear-out or grading the grassy areas) and I'm wearing a safety vest.
My friend still does them regularly and his stress level is so high that I suspect a nervous breakdown anytime now!
Because he feels justified (with it being city property) he will engage in yelling matches with homeowners and it becomes one big bloody mess.

Speaking of messes, I noticed all the major parks in my city this summer with massive yellow plugs and unfilled holes everywhere.
To the point where I turned off my detector and left out of sheer embarrassment. There's numerous threads about this condition across the continent.
Luckily, I'm a relic hunter who spends 95% of my time out of the city but soon park hunting will be off limits thanks to others.

Legal or not, if too many hunters leave a mess or piss off residents (with numerous calls to the police) then outright bans will occur.
I'm sure one fellow will chime in that it's because of us asking for permission to hunt places we can already hunt and some official now decides no hunting is allowed.
Based on my experience, most places that are now banned were because of previous hunters leaving a mess. I can prove that!
Oh, and there's beach hunters that scoop out targets and can't bother to fill in their holes and when beach goers trip and hurt themselves, what do you think will happen next?
I'm starting to get myself worked up and better stop this post right now!

 

[jamiefind]

Thanks, Muddy. I agree with everything you said, and yeah it's easy to get worked up!

Still, no one really responded to my specific question about whether anyone knows if it's legal in ANY state. I was just surprised when I started looking into it and was curious if my state is an aberration. Or if people just really don't care if it's legal as long as no one gets "caught." Starting to lean to the latter.

 

[cudamark]

Hi, all. I am curious as to how curb strip and park MDing is allowed in other states. The rationale I have read on these boards is that the city owns the property and therefore MDing is permitted. Some posters do not seem to even think city permission is required (finder's law maybe?). Logic demands permission from the city, and at least in my state of Mississippi, removing or excavating things from lands owned by political subdivisions of the state (cities) requires a permit or contract from the state Dept of Archives & History.

I'm a lawyer, a metal detectorist, an engineer, and a history buff, and I am wondering if other states genuinely have different laws, or if the curb strip / park hunters out there are just not concerned about the law (or think that enforcement is unlikely against amateurs so long as nothing truly significant is found, etc.).

I have summarized our state's antiquities law below, and I would love to see an intelligent discussion as to whether other states are different. I can't imagine there is that much variation. I am not a typical lawyer...don't really like them, and I am not interested in judging anyone for doing what they do. This post is intended to be good natured. Thoughts?

1) STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT LANDS: AUTOMATIC PROTECTION OF SHIPS AND TREASURE. All sunken ships of the sea and their contents, and all treasure embedded in the earth or located on/under the surface of land owned by the state or its subdivisions (e.g., counties, cities), including its riverbeds, are declared to be state landmarks and the state's sole property and may not be taken/salvaged/excavated without express permission of the state Dept of Archives & History. See MS Code § 39-7-9.

2) STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT LANDS: AUTOMATIC PROTECTION OF ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT THINGS. All other sites, objects, buildings, artifacts, implements, and locations of archaeological significance (including prehistoric and historical American Indian or aboriginal sites and things, and archaeological sites of every character) located on/under the surface of land owned by the state or its subdivisions (e.g., counties, cities) are declared to be state landmarks and the state's sole property and may not be taken/salvaged/excavated without express permission of the state Dept of Archives & History. See MS Code § 39-7-11(1).

3) STATE/LOCAL GOVERNMENT LANDS: POSSIBLE PROTECTION OF HISTORICALLY OR ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT THINGS. All other sites, objects, buildings, artifacts, implements, structures, and locations of historical or archaeological significance located in/under the surface of land owned by the state or its subdivisions (e.g., counties, cities) may be declared to be state landmarks by the state Dept of Archives & History and may not be taken/salvaged/excavated without the Dept's express permission. See MS Code § 39-7-11(2).

4) PRIVATE LANDS: HISTORICALLY OR ARCHAEOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT THINGS. Only with the written consent of the landowner, any site on private land may be determined to have sufficient archaeological, historical, or architectural significance and declared to be a state landmark by the state Dept of Archives & History. No such designated sites or items may be taken/salvaged/excavated without the Dept's express permission. Both the designation and the landowner's written permission must be recorded in the county land records. See MS Code § 39-7-11(3) & -13.

I don't see anything in your posted law sections that would pertain to detecting curb strips. They're not archaeological sites, historical sites, sunken ship sites, American Indian or aboriginal sites, state landmarks, and in most cases, private property. That doesn't mean that the homeowner might not think it's his, though! If you choose to hunt them, I'd do it at off hours, or at least when the home owner isn't around to complain, if possible. You likely will still get a complainer from time to time. Just smile and move on to greener pastures. Getting into an argument about it won't convince them to change their mind, even if you have it in writing that the law is on your side. There are probably laws like yours in every state and town. As for determining whether the land is government or privately owned, you'll have to look up your local ordinances. Here in my city, it's either 20 or 25 feet each way from the center of the road that is city owned, depending on the section of town. That usually covers the curb, parking strip, and sidewalk, but, bring a tape measure if you have any doubts.

 

[cudamark]

Angry women calling you an effing welfare bum; cops showing up, wasting their time from catching real criminals; hen-pecked husbands picking a fight.....
You must have a different class of bums in your area! Around here, they ask you for change. They have no intention of working for it, by detecting or any other means. No way our bums would have hundreds (let alone thousands) of dollar's worth of equipment for coin hunting anyway. They'd hock it and go back to begging. As for irresponsible people leaving a mess, that happens everywhere, in all forms of detecting. That isn't just a curb hunting problem. I skip over the well manicured areas anyway. It's rare you'll find anything old there as they've usually been dug up when they were redone. I like the ones that look like they've been untouched for decades.

 

[SeabeeRon]

To the OP...what State are you in?

 

[jamiefind]

I don't see anything in your posted law sections that would pertain to detecting curb strips. They're not archaeological sites, historical sites, sunken ship sites, American Indian or aboriginal sites . . . . There are probably laws like yours in every state and town.

What an on-topic reply, good sir. Thank you!

I agree. I do not think this state antiquities law would be invoked automatically for any parks or curb strips that don't constitute archaeological, historical, or architectural interests. And as for the "optional" landmark designations by the Dept, those have to be marked with a sign. So as long as the land is public property of the state or its political subdivisions, typical parks and curb strips would not be protected by the antiquities law, so the only rule would be getting permission from the owner (ie, the city).

Obviously if the curb strips are private property, none of this analysis is necessary, and simple permission is the only requirement.

Thanks for your contribution, cudamark.

 

[jamiefind]

To the OP...what State are you in?

Mississippi, a state with a strong public policy in favor of private property ownership rights, thus the strict requirement for landowner permission if the Dept wants to designate private property as a state landmark.

 

[kingskid1611]

If I hunt curb strips I usually do it in front of businesses and abandoned houses. I try to avoid most of those home owners who will claim its theirs or that what you find they just happened to lose.

 

[jamiefind]

If I hunt curb strips I usually do it in front of businesses and abandoned houses. I try to avoid most of those home owners who will claim its theirs or that what you find they just happened to lose.

Thanks. My question already assumed a curb strip or park was public property and was just asking what level of permission is required by state laws.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jamie, as a "lawyer", I'm sure you're aware that all the laws you cited in your opening post, are STATE level laws. Thus they govern STATE land. For the cultural heritage verbage you bring in. They are not city or county (or federal), and would therefore only apply to state land. Such that city (or county) parks and curb-strips are outside this discussion entirely.

State laws do not necessarily subrogate down to city and county levels. Just because the city or county is a sub-component of the larger state, does not mean that , therefore, state laws apply to city lands, etc.... Parks laws and rules DIFFER ALL THE TIME. State parks might disallow fireworks, while a city or county park might not. State parks might disallow vehicles on their beaches (dune-buggies), while a county beach may not. Etc.... So don't make the mistake of thinking that state laws apply to city parks.

And a part of me is also thinking: Gee, even with all that said, a lawyer could STILL probably go to each of those cities and counties and ....... sure, with enough worrying and splitting hairs, find yourself in violation of SOME law or rule, if you connected a bunch of dots. It's never ending jamie-find. Perhaps it'll be forbiddance of "harvest", "collect", "remove", etc.. Perhaps they can say you "altered" or "disturbed". Heck, they can even say you're harming earthworms or violating laws that forbid "annoyances". IT'S NEVER ENDING ! So if you want to worry long and hard enough, you've chosen the wrong hobby.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... so the only rule would be getting permission from the owner (ie, the city)...

This is true, *if* a person starts with the assumption that he is doing something wrong or harmful or illegal. But why are you starting with this premise? For example: Would you assume this if the activity at discussion were flying a frisbee ? Probably not. Why? Because you and I know that frisbees are innocuous and harmless. Thus not needing permission. IN THE SAME WAY do I consider md'ing: to be harmless, innocuous, nutritious, etc....

Oh sure, I can worry myself silly that it may fall under the forbiddance of "collect" and "take" type stuff that is boiler plate for any city. But if THOSE are your types of concerns, then I wonder why you consider md'ing as a hobby in the first place? I mean, didn't it occur to you, when you took up the hobby, that you were going to "take" things ?

 

[jamiefind]

Jamie, as a "lawyer", I'm sure you're aware that all the laws you cited in your opening post, are STATE level laws. Thus they govern STATE land. For the cultural heritage verbage you bring in. They are not city or county (or federal), and would therefore only apply to state land. Such that city (or county) parks and curb-strips are outside this discussion entirely.

State laws do not necessarily subrogate down to city and county levels. Just because the city or county is a sub-component of the larger state, does not mean that , therefore, state laws apply to city lands, etc.... Parks laws and rules DIFFER ALL THE TIME. State parks might disallow fireworks, while a city or county park might not. State parks might disallow vehicles on their beaches (dune-buggies), while a county beach may not. Etc.... So don't make the mistake of thinking that state laws apply to city parks.

And a part of me is also thinking: Gee, even with all that said, a lawyer could STILL probably go to each of those cities and counties and ....... sure, with enough worrying and splitting hairs, find yourself in violation of SOME law or rule, if you connected a bunch of dots. It's never ending jamie-find. Perhaps it'll be forbiddance of "harvest", "collect", "remove", etc.. Perhaps they can say you "altered" or "disturbed". Heck, they can even say you're harming earthworms or violating laws that forbid "annoyances". IT'S NEVER ENDING ! So if you want to worry long and hard enough, you've chosen the wrong hobby.

Thanks. The way I understand your post, you made two broad points: 1) state rules don't automatically apply to city/county land, and 2) a scoundrel cop or lawyer can always piece together some case against whatever you're doing, so don't overthink it and just have fun.

As to 1, I am not so incompetent an attorney to not realize that state laws are limited in their application. My state's antiquities law expressly applies to all political subdivisions of the state. That encompasses all government divisions, right down to cities and even little utility districts. I appreciate your attempt to think through the law and try to craft an exception, but no dice.

As to 2, I disagree that laws are ever, at least routinely, applied so haphazardly. Yes, some people have vendettas and grudges and will abuse power, but this antiquities law is clear and unambiguous. There is no confusion as to what it says or means, at least in large part. If I started digging up Choctaw pottery from the city youth baseball fields creek, I unequivocally understand That I would be violating the law. Your response spoke to enforcement. Your personal experience has has apparently led you to think that laws are just sort of tossed out there and enforced whenever it "makes sense" to the enforcement officer. My question was about how other state antiquities law may differ, not the likelihood that my state's law will be enforced. I can make that judgment call on my own without help from those who roll their eyes at people who make an honest effort to avoid being a criminal / societal parasite.

 

[jamiefind]

This is true, *if* a person starts with the assumption that he is doing something wrong or harmful or illegal. But why are you starting with this premise? For example: Would you assume this if the activity at discussion were flying a frisbee ? Probably not. Why? Because you and I know that frisbees are innocuous and harmless. Thus not needing permission. IN THE SAME WAY do I consider md'ing: to be harmless, innocuous, nutritious, etc....

Oh sure, I can worry myself silly that it may fall under the forbiddance of "collect" and "take" type stuff that is boiler plate for any city. But if THOSE are your types of concerns, then I wonder why you consider md'ing as a hobby in the first place? I mean, didn't it occur to you, when you took up the hobby, that you were going to "take" things ?

There are so many things incorrect or inconsistent about this reply it makes my head spin, but the bottom line is that it is off topic. 1) The city extends a license (a legal term) for recreational activities at parks but anything else is trespassing or worse. 2) The property owner gets to determine what is innocuous and harmless and permitted by the license, not you. 3) Boilerplate is not a derogatory term; it's like common sense; concepts have become boilerplate because they have been used over and over again; it is in some ways more important and informative than special non-boilerplate language. 4) I entered the hobby with the intent of finding relics under my own property and elsewhere if allowed; I did not ever intend on stealing from others, and that includes property of the government. 5) Attitudes and disrespect for the property of others is why this hobby has a negative reputation. In the past I have had to convince property owners that I am NOT a guy espousing the views you have shared above to assuage their concerns and get permission to dig.

But again, bottom line, these replies were off topic.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jamie-find, good post. It's a relevant question. And perhaps you're right that in MS: that state level laws DO subrogate down to city level parks. And you're saying it's only that way because specifically spelled out that it does (Ie.: "all public land" versus just "all state land"). I recall that KY had similar wording, such that some state archies there tried to say it applied even to city and county parks, schools, etc... Although, their claims had other holes to poke in it, because if you read closely, it STILL only applied sites deemed "archaeological" within that subset of land. Not just "all public land". Only public land that had been given an archaeological designation.

Or even if not specifically said to be "all public land, how about along these lines: The stricter law prevails. For example: Murder need not be dis-allowed at city level. Because , of course, the state (or federal) level laws forbidding murder would prevail. If that type rationale is accepted, then, heck, I suppose that ARPA (federal level) would therefore apply to states (because the 50 states are merely a sub-part/component of the larger fed), and so on down the line all the way down the line to city sandboxes. Right ?

But how do you explain then, that people all over the USA (yes, including Mississippi) are routinely detecting public parks, curb strips, beaches, forests, school yards, etc... and finding stuff ? Yes, even, gasp, 50+ yr. old coins. ? If what you're saying is true, then all of them/us are law-breakers.

There has actually been some cities in some states (not MS necessarily) that, when considering the decision of creating a rule to address md'ing, DO feel that they HAVE to dis-allow it, by pointing to something at the state level (or even fed. level) that they feel subrogates down to them. But how does this work ? Because there are state park rules that DON'T apply at city and county parks too. Ie.: dogs on leash, overnight camping, fireworks, etc....

You say: "I disagree that laws are ever, at least routinely, applied so haphazardly ...." Well, do you acknowledge that a) there are laws written vaguely, so as to be applied in cases of law and order ? For example: Laws that forbid annoyances. Or blocking sidewalks. Or distracted driving, etc.... Some of those DO get invoked and applied at discretions of officers, or in cases of complaints only. b) that cops are given a degree of latitude of interpret and apply, so that they can get their jobs done. Yes I know that sounds capricious and arbitrary. One cop thinks digging a coin violates the "alter and deface" code (even though you'll leave no trace) , while the next could care less and says "help yourself". That tells me right there that there IS a degree of interpretation. Far from being "black and white".

I realize you're asking about cultural heritage issues, and not "alter and deface" issues. All I can say is, that people md public lands all the time, in all states (including MS) and routinely find old coins. And in each and every case, just as you have done, I have no doubt that if you thought about it long enough and hard enough, that .... yes .... you will find something that it violates.

Hence perhaps this isn't the hobby for you. Or just stick to private property.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... 1) The city extends a license (a legal term) for recreational activities at parks but anything else is trespassing or worse......

Correct. And I consider md'ing to be a "recreational activity".

..... 2) The property owner gets to determine what is innocuous and harmless and permitted by the license, not you....

Correct. And if they think that md'ing is not within allowed recreations, THEY ARE MORE THAN WELCOME TO COME ALERT ME. But I NOT start with the assumption it is dis-allowed, till-told-otherwise. If there's not a specific forbiddance/rule, then why do I start with the assumption it is therefore needing permission ? Would you assume the same for frisbees? That without an express permission or sign saying "frisbee flying permitted here", that it is therefore prohibited ? Why do you start with a different assumption for md'ing then ?

....4) .... I did not ever intend on stealing from others, and that includes property of the government.....

Ah this is VERY interesting. Because this is getting close to laws that forbid "take", "remove", "collect", etc.... Laws that are there so that no numbskull thinks he can harvest all the tree bark from the park's trees. Or take home the park benches. Or cut out and roll up the sod/turf for use at his garden/yard at home, etc... Were those laws ever meant to apply to pennies, dimes, buttons, etc... ? No. But COULD they be deemed to apply ? Sure ! Just ask long enough and hard enough to enough lawyers and pencil pushers, and I'm sure that *technically* it would also forbid your 10 yr. old daughter from taking home a seashell from the beach too.

...Attitudes and disrespect for the property of others is why this hobby has a negative reputation....

I consider md'ing to be very respectful for properties, and non-harmful, and positive. Everything you're saying only makes sense if we start with the assumption/premise that md'ing = harmful, evil, dangerous, etc....

 

[jamiefind]

Jamie-find, good post. It's a relevant question. And perhaps you're right that in MS: that state level laws DO subrogate down to city level parks. And you're saying it's only that way because specifically spelled out that it does (Ie.: "all public land" versus just "all state land"). I recall that KY had similar wording, such that some state archies there tried to say it applied even to city and county parks, schools, etc... Although, their claims had other holes to poke in it, because if you read closely, it STILL only applied sites deemed "archaeological" within that subset of land. Not just "all public land". Only public land that had been given an archaeological designation.

Or even if not specifically said to be "all public land, how about along these lines: The stricter law prevails. For example: Murder need not be dis-allowed at city level. Because , of course, the state (or federal) level laws forbidding murder would prevail. If that type rationale is accepted, then, heck, I suppose that ARPA (federal level) would therefore apply to states (because the 50 states are merely a sub-part/component of the larger fed), and so on down the line all the way down the line to city sandboxes. Right ?

But how do you explain then, that people all over the USA (yes, including Mississippi) are routinely detecting public parks, curb strips, beaches, forests, school yards, etc... and finding stuff ? Yes, even, gasp, 50+ yr. old coins. ? If what you're saying is true, then all of them/us are law-breakers.

There has actually been some cities in some states (not MS necessarily) that, when considering the decision of creating a rule to address md'ing, DO feel that they HAVE to dis-allow it, by pointing to something at the state level (or even fed. level) that they feel subrogates down to them. But how does this work ? Because there are state park rules that DON'T apply at city and county parks too. Ie.: dogs on leash, overnight camping, fireworks, etc....

You say: "I disagree that laws are ever, at least routinely, applied so haphazardly ...." Well, do you acknowledge that a) there are laws written vaguely, so as to be applied in cases of law and order ? For example: Laws that forbid annoyances. Or blocking sidewalks. Or distracted driving, etc.... Some of those DO get invoked and applied at discretions of officers, or in cases of complaints only. b) that cops are given a degree of latitude of interpret and apply, so that they can get their jobs done. Yes I know that sounds capricious and arbitrary. One cop thinks digging a coin violates the "alter and deface" code (even though you'll leave no trace) , while the next could care less and says "help yourself". That tells me right there that there IS a degree of interpretation. Far from being "black and white".

I realize you're asking about cultural heritage issues, and not "alter and deface" issues. All I can say is, that people md public lands all the time, in all states (including MS) and routinely find old coins. And in each and every case, just as you have done, I have no doubt that if you thought about it long enough and hard enough, that .... yes .... you will find something that it violates.

Hence perhaps this isn't the hobby for you. Or just stick to private property.

The MS antiquities law applies to all "political subdivisions" of the state. That is a phrase with legal meaning that you can research on your own via Google, so I'm not going to engage you on that. That phrase kicks in a particular meaning. Other states' antiquities laws might be different or more narrow, and that's why I asked the question, i.e., whether my state was stricter or not. Seems like no one knows.

I agree that some laws have prosecutorial discretion baked in. Who could disagree? Off topic. Not sure about other states, but MS's antiquities law does not provide any circumstantial discretion.

Not sure why you put the burden on me to explain why a lot of hobbyists detect public lands. After all, that's exactly why I asked the question. I don't know. Either it's legal or it's illegal but ignored (whether unintentionally or not).

HOWEVER, I do not think the intent of the antiquities law is to protect a 1989 penny at a city park, and I do think its intent is to protect an American Indian burial. What about a buffalo coin? Civil War bullet? Revolutionary bayonet scabbard? Common American Indian arrowhead? Here lies the question of statutory interpretation, i.e., the meaning of "archaeological." That's the margin of risk for the detectorist, and it's a judgment call, just like it's a judgment call how fast you are comfortable going over the speed limit. At a certain speed you think you're probably committing a violation, but you're comfortable with the risk that i) you might not get caught, ii) you might just get a warning or not pulled over at all, or iii) your speedometer might be inaccurate. Cost-benefit analysis. Maybe THIS is the point you are making?

Lord, how hard is it to ask a group of metal detector hobbyists how they hunt public lands legally? It scares me that only one person had an answer, i.e., that the common findings are not archaeologically significant so as to invoke the state antiquities law.

 

[jamiefind]

Ah this is VERY interesting. Because this is getting close to laws that forbid "take", "remove", "collect", etc.... Laws that are there so that no numbskull thinks he can harvest all the tree bark from the park's trees. Or take home the park benches. Or cut out and roll up the sod/turf for use at his garden/yard at home, etc... Were those laws ever meant to apply to pennies, dimes, buttons, etc... ? No. But COULD they be deemed to apply ? Sure ! Just ask long enough and hard enough to enough lawyers and pencil pushers, and I'm sure that *technically* it would also forbid your 10 yr. old daughter from taking home a seashell from the beach too.

Thanks, but I wasn't referring to those laws but rather common law theft/larceny. Taking a park bench is theft because it was not abandoned property and violates the public license. Taking a seashell is usually fine except in Destin, FL, which for some crazy reason decided to prohibit that (as if that could ever be enforced!). But an unearthed silver coin is tricky. See laws governing lost or abandoned property. Now that's an interesting discussion. But also an off topic one.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ok then, let's cut to the chase and give the simple answer then: Yes all metal detecting on public land in MS, where 51+ yr. coins are found [the usual age-criteria for what constitutes archaeologically significant] is illegal.

And yes, all those guys there that routinely do it, are ignored as harmless and no one cares. Did that make it technically right ? No.

I suppose if someone REALLY were hot & bothered about it, all they'd have to do is watch the forums for anyone posting an old coin from Mississipi, and ... if determined to have come from public land, could throw the book at them . Certainly there is on-line monitoring for child porn (traps set to catch them soliciting for underage targets). And there is govt. people who will crack down if illegal drugs are being sold on-line, etc... So then why isn't some govt. people simply watching the net, and when show & tell posts come on from MS, bam, slap the cuffs on them ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

But I already know what you'd say to my last rhetorical question: You'd say it's of no matter whether there's enforcement or not. It's irrelevant whether no one cares or not. You'd say all of that is outside your technical question.

Therefore the easy answer is: Yes. It's illegal. And so too is it probably illegal (if you asked enough questions and connected enough dots) on every speck of public land, for some reason or another.

Thus stick to private property.