What are the federal laws in USA regarding finding a buried coin cache?

[sprailroad]

Do you think the Queen might take us back, so that we may have" English Treasure Trove laws" instead? I would tend to agree with "ivan sails" post #20. Remember Mel Fisher & others?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Do you think the Queen might take us back, so that we may have" English Treasure Trove laws" instead?...

You do NOT want those laws. Why would anyone want to be forced to sell ? And trust me: They're paying taxes over there too on whatever the queen decides to give them of the treasure.

Here in the USA, if you find a treasure on farmer Bob's land, it's TOTALLY BETWEEN YOU AND FARMER BOB how to split it, when or if or how you sell, etc.... Why would anyone want govt. intrusion into that ?

 

[uglymailman]

Dear Honest Samuel. I would never cheat the IRS. I will gladly pay the tax on anything of value over $1199.00. No matter how many times I get it. Us Gvt. Parasites have to stick together.

 

[sprailroad]

My Dear Tom in CA. Same holds true in England. Treasure Trove laws go into effect IF you made it known, otherwise, it's between you and farmer Bob's English farmer cousin. Now let's say you found 1/2 dozen or so Gold Crowns, what do you do with them, how would you sell them?, I think there (England) you would receive fair market value if any museum would be interested, whereas here, (U.S.) the "Government" would simply want to seize them, or so it would seem. Oh well, God Save The Queen!

 

[DeepseekerADS]

I'm glad I chose to read this thread - very interesting great topic!

 

[EastCoastmetal]

Whats worst is that if the government does take their "cut" you know damn well its going to be wasted by corrupt officials and most of it will end up is some politicians pocket , why give the crooks easy money?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...whereas here, the "Government" would simply want to seize them, or so it would seem....

sprailroad, how do you figure ? Persons here are allowed to keep caches found on private land ALL THE TIME. And any issue other-than-that is the same between the 2 countries.

Eg.: if the subject of ownership arose (farmer bob saying it was buried by his long lost uncle and wants it back) can arise at EITHER country. Or the subject of taxes on said object-sale can arise in EITHER country.

If someone finds a cache here on farmer Bob's land, no the government is going to "sieze" it. No more-so than in Britain for whatever ancillary reasons might arise. Hence, no, the less govt. intrusion the better. Thus the British method of "everything under the ground belongs to the queen" is NOT the "better system".

 

[SeabeeRon]

I will not hold anyone liable for anything if their answer isn't in complete alignment with the current federal laws and regulations, I just want some perspective.

Say I get permission to dig on someone's property and I find a buried cache. Say I signed a written agreement with the landowner prior to finding the treasure detailing that we both get 50/50. What must I do then with the treasure? Am i to contact the I.R.S.? What else should I do to declare my finding? How much are they going to take? Say I find $1,000,000 in gold coins, and I split it with the landowner 50/50, So I get $500,000, how much should I expect big brother to be taking away? Say this finding is not in California, so exclude that state and their laws from your answer.

Thank you in advance for any answers you may have for me!

The OP of this thread appears to be a one hit wonder.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

The OP of this thread appears to be a one hit wonder.

The OP can now read this thread without logging in again.

Just may be he had serious intent on knowing what the Feds would want?

 

[mdunn]

Don't make a fuss, act real cool, and keep it for yourself.

 

[sprailroad]

Tom, Less Govt. Intrusion the better? I fully agree 100 percent! Cache's on private property and the Gov't? Hummm---- I recall a couple in Calif. walking along on their private property, and finding cans of gold coins. WHEN it was made known, OUR Gov't response? "It belongs to us, it MUST have been stolen from the S.F. mint". It's not a legal battle here, for I'm sure I'd be outgunned. All I'm saying is that I feel that finding any large treasure on whoever's land in say England, you can report (IF you choose to) any receive fair market value without any fear or possible problems from either the "Gov't" or "archaeologist", now really, can we REALLY say the same here? or do we feel we need to think of ways to keep quiet about it or in some cases "lawyer up".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, Less Govt. Intrusion the better? I fully agree 100 percent! Cache's on private property and the Gov't? Hummm---- I recall a couple in Calif. walking along on their private property, and finding cans of gold coins. WHEN it was made known, OUR Gov't response? "It belongs to us, it MUST have been stolen from the S.F. mint". It's not a legal battle here, for I'm sure I'd be outgunned. All I'm saying is that I feel that finding any large treasure on whoever's land in say England, you can report (IF you choose to) any receive fair market value without any fear or possible problems from either the "Gov't" or "archaeologist", now really, can we REALLY say the same here? or do we feel we need to think of ways to keep quiet about it or in some cases "lawyer up".

A couple of responses here:

a) That couple in CA that you speak of got to keep the $$.

b) There short-lived speculation that it might not be theirs to keep. Because it was "stolen from the mint by a mintworker 100+ yrs. earlier. Thus "govt. property". But that got disproven because some dates on some of the coins POST dated that event. Or were not the right mint marks, or something like that . That put the end to that speculation.

c) I have a feeling that if you found something in England, on yours (or Farmer Bob's) land that turned out was stolen from the govt. 100+ yrs. earlier, that YOU LIKEWISE would not get to "keep it". Their laws do not give you fair-market-value for stolen stuff where the owner (the govt.) is still around to lay claim. So don't think for a moment that the British laws rescue that situation.

d) But it was a moot point anyhow. The CA people got to keep it. And can get fair market value (just like England) by selling to THEIR OWN SATISFACTION at the auction of their choice. And sure, perhaps they'll be paying taxes on the proceeds. BUT SO TOO WOULD the British fellow who finds such $$ be paying taxes on his proceeds too.

Hence: The British system is widely misunderstood by USA hunters. As if it's a carte-blanche to hunt wherever you want . Such is not true. They have SCORES of off-limits parks (historical monuments, etc...) that , just like here, you can't hunt. And some think it's a love-affair between archies and md'rs. Not so: read what some of their purist archie's say, and you'll see they bristle at horrible md'rs too, just like here.

The ONLY thing the UK system facilitates is forced sale and split. All of which, here in the USA, is between YOU and FARMER BOB.

 

[sprailroad]

I do not disagree with Tom, all of his points, (a,b,c & d) are all valid. I know the Calif. couple kept their coins, and am glad of it. It seemed more like a weak attempt of the Fed's to take control of it without a whimper from the couple. Also, I was never talking about anything "stolen", that's a whole different matter. And taxes?, There is ALWAYS taxes it seems on everything, even death. I also know there are many off limit places everywhere. And the forced sale and split? again it's between the land owner and you, if you choose to report a large find of a historical value, it would seem to be a easier path in England then here. For me? I have never found anything in regards to any kind of "Treasure Trove", but if so, I would take a LONG pause before I might mention any of it. Strange that as "Detectorist" we keep looking for something that might present us with this kind of problem. I'm still trying.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... if you choose to report a large find of a historical value, it would seem to be a easier path in England then here. ....

Well ... It's certainly different , eh ? As if the TH'r there and land-owner are heralded in the news, made out to be "rock-stars" (like a lottery winnner). And then the history is propped up in museums by the queen, and so forth. To that extent, sure.

But all the other tentacles and potential glitches are the same between the 2 nations. Eg.: taxes, other claimants trying to say they lost it or the finder isn't *really* entitled to it, etc... And, heck, over here I suppose the md'r could keep 90% of it (if that's what the split agreement was between you and farmer bob). Whilst over there, it's mandated 50/50, right ? Seems to me I'd prefer 90%

But at the end of the day: Each nation's md'r is entitled to keep what they find on private land , and each is required to pay taxes.

Good topic.

 

[seekerGH]

Back to the OP...a cache of $1 million in gold coins would be very suspect as to the origin.

 

[Honest Samuel]

It is very suspected to me.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

So if 1/3 or 28% goes to Uncle Sam, so we should all pay taxes on anything over $1199.00 did I get this right.. but cumulatively for us treasure hunters what we have found over the years if we went over..do we need to pay to Uncle Sam still, those hunters that cashed in over the years on valuable and non valuables must have went over this single amount never payed taxes, so I guess they cheated the Government or IRS..right?

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Long story short we all owe a lil bit over the years then, for me I look at the taxes I just payed over the new detectors I find and do the parks a favor and clean up the junk that is in the ground is where I am contributing back, my .02.

 

[Honest Samuel]

On large income, legal or illegal, pay your federal and state income taxes, or off to jail you will go.

 

[cammobunker]

On large income, legal or illegal, pay your federal and state income taxes, or off to jail you will go.

Very true. A woman I worked with is set to go to Fed Jail for embezzlement. Embezzlement, yup. Although the big thing the .gov made a case on? Tax evasion. They practically threw out the embezzlement charge so they could get the tax charges in. Why? A) Tax carried a stiffer penalty than theft (yes...really). B) Theft was from state funds (gets money from Fed grants, that's why the Feds got involved) but what the feds were really interested in was getting her convicted of the tax charges so they can get her on a payment plan to pay the BACK TAXES ON THE MONEY SHE STOLE. She's going to get a light actual incarceration sentence, probably about a year or so, but will be making tax restitution payments for, literally, the rest of her life. Here's the big takeaway on this situation: the feds were not interested in justice. It was all about the Benjamins, start to finish, end of story, full stop.
Now, that was theft, and she deserves the punishment she's going to get, no question. I'm a bit less OK with the .gov showing up with a hand out if I find a group of coins or bar silver or whatever. Whatever your own personal moral compass tells you to do, you follow that, but be advised that there are severe penalties for not rendering unto Caesar.
As far as cheating the good people of this country, it's obvious you've never worked in government. I do. I see just how much gets wasted on pork barrel or
vanity projects and just plain stupid ideas. I do my best to be a good trustee of public funds, but what I see others do is, or should be, criminal.