A bit of a conundrum or not?

[carl6405]

Hi folks.. just trying to get some input on how this situation might be handled. So, I know someone that might have found a piece of lost history that is potentially quite valuable. Not millions but maybe a few thousand. It is a lost gold artifact and will leave it like that. So, this find if reported would actually correct an error that was recorded in the history books as it has dates and names on it of an event that took place.
The scenario is permission was given to relic hunt a private property but the "what if a valued item is found" factor was never brought up. Now, something of value was found on this property.
Should the person that found the relic let the property owner know? Also, there is a historical society and museum that relates to this item. Thinking they might be a potential buyer of the object. One idea is to approach the property owner, make them aware and let them know of paying them a percentage of what the item gets sold for.
If word gets out, it will likely make the local papers.

Its a conundrum and would like to give my friend some good advice. Just wanting to see what you all think or would do.
Thank you.

 

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[Vermont treasure hunter]

I think that you should definitely let the property owner know. This has not happened to me before but your friend could get in trouble with the property owner if they find out about it later. I think that your friend should tell the property owner

 

[tamrock]

Were there any prior agreements between the property own and treasure hunter.? Did the treasure hunters make any promises to the property owner prior to hunting the property? The way I see it, its mostly on the conscience of the treasure hunter to do whats right at this point and maybe a little on you, because you now know about it. Did you personally see this item?

 

[releventchair]

IF the object will be exposed to other eyes , it will be exposed.
Likely the person who recovered it will be too.
Then what?

I don't care to be looking over my shoulder for some one I upset.
Nor do I care for publicity...

But , if the object is going to be exposed , figure on the finder being exposed. Not all will agree on what's right.

For an exposed to the public eye recovery , I'd have the landowner in on it. IF the landowner is willing to be in the public eye. They may not. And may not want the publicity of a recovery on their property! (Visions of people sneaking in to "treasurehunt" comes to mind..)
For one it gives credit for allowing hunting. Secondly it tells of those seeking hunting not always looking to gain. But that's me. Thirdly , my relationship going forward with the landowner /their kin matters. What does the object mean to them as an object? And what does it's value mean to them?

I've read that if you profit well by a hunt on someones property , their quality of life should improve slightly by it too.
Again , that's an individual opinion.
But I know I'd sleep just fine that way.
More so if word got out.... And in your post , I fully expect word to get out. Heck , it already has!

 

[tomclark]

Let your friend decide. you may have already given out too much info. Hope that he will do the right thing and report it and deal with the finders/keepers/landowner/State as it plays out,.

 

[Mackaydon]

If the 'permission granted' was only an oral agreement, the landowner could deny he ever made such an agreement--and sue the finder for theft if the discovery became known to the owner. Takeaway: Get 'permission' in writing and cover the 'what if' alternatives--like finding something of value and what happens then. Treasure hunting forms are plentiful on the Net.
Don......

 

[DCMatt]

There was a thread on Treasurenet a few years ago from a guy who had permission to hunt private land and found a significant stash of gold coins. It may still be in the Best of Treasurenet forum. I don't recall the exact value but it was life-changing money for the finder at the time.

He secretly hauled it all home and called an attorney. The legal advice was to sell everything and split the money 50/50 with the land owner - which he did. So the finder was happy and the land owner was happy and there was nothing left to argue about as the gold had already been sold.

I think that's fair.

 

[smokeythecat]

And Uncle Sam was happy when he got his cut.

 

[DCMatt]

And Uncle Sam was happy when he got his cut.

One way or another, this always happens. Trust me. I work for the government.

 

[cudamark]

I would talk with the land owner and let them decide (along with my input) as to what should be done. If it has significant historical value, I would hope it goes to a museum regardless of whether either of you get paid for it or not. This will show prospective new permissions that you can be trusted and not just a "pirate" or "grave robber".

 

[carl6405]

Hi everyone and thank you for all of your inputs. I do have an update on this subject. First, let me point out something as it may have significance. Not sure if anyone knows the common law as it relates to this though if you do, would like to hear from you. I have heard from a couple of sources, that common law would give the ownership of this object to the one that found it but not 100 percent sure.
Here are some key points.
1. The daughter gave me permission to hunt her mother's property, however the mother was aware and was fine with me hunting there, as I saw both of them one day when i found an old button and the mother was fine with me relic hunting there.
2. I have let the daughter(she gave me permission) of the land owner know that I found something very significant and could have considerable value($400-$4000) but still working on finding someone that can appraise the item. Also, I let her know that I want to sell it, (though i want it to go to a museum or a descendant of that family) and will pay her a percentage of what the object sells for. She was VERY happy with my honesty which as such wants me to hunt more of her property.
3. There is a new glitch however. She does not want her brother to know about it and her brother just happens to be my neighbor. Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but once the word is out on what i found, there's a good possibility he will find out.

PS-I am looking forward to letting it be known on here with pics on what I found but trying to get all this admin stuff sorted out first.

Thanks

 

[PetesPockets55]

Good to hear you're working through this. And look forward to images and the history.

You're still in tricky territory with the brother/neighbor thrown into the mix, whatever the sisters reasoning for the secrecy.
Did you get the latest agreement in writing, even if it is informal (even on a napkin)? Since it is the mothers property, she is the one getting the percentage and signing the written agreement, correct?

If you've only clarified things with the daughter, that may not be enough. As others have said, more (the brother) will find out and if it's not a signed agreement you and the mother may not be in the clear. Just explain to the mother/sister it is for everyone's benefit. You've already shown your honesty to them by letting them know about the find.

Best of luck.

ps. Has anybody mentioned an attorney yet. Might be the best couple of hundred dollars spent.

 

[carl6405]

Nothing in writing at this point.

 

[cudamark]

I would sit down with the mother and daughter and explain that if they want to not tell the brother, that you need to get things in writing so all three of you have a clear understanding about how the value of the item is to be divided. Have them agree that if there is some hassle with the brother, that they will take care of it from their end (there again in writing). I second the motion that you should get a lawyer to write up the final draft, just so all the I's are dotted and T's crossed.

 

[carl6405]

@cudamark.. Thank you for your input.
So there is a new twist, and at this point i am not sure what to do.
I talked with the lady(daughter of the mother that owns the property) that gave me permission tonight. She informed me that she had reached out to their family attorney and asked him who owns the relic. Their attorney told her that the land owner owns everything below ground so naturally, she now wants the ring I found and she stated that she will get it appraised, sell and will split the proceeds with me. This really has my dander up, but not sure if i should stand my ground, play dumb as if i know not what she is talking about.. She has not seen the relic i found yet. Or just go along with her demands.
There must be a law on this that I can find. Ive heard about contractors finding money in walls and the contractor by law got to keep the loot. Hate to play this card, but just feel like I have gone above and beyond with integrity and honesty just to have it come back and bite me in the rear.

The value of this ring has not been officially appraised at the moment, but just in talking over the phone with different appraisers and people and other antique professionals. Jewelry store said $400, one owner of antique store, $4000 and other people that specialize in this said could be worth a "substantial" amount of money. Not worried about uncle sam at this point. Just trying to walk a tight rope and not get screwed for being honest.
Does anyone know if the law is online/internet somewhere that would deal with this type of scenario?

 

[OcdChaos]

Go to the local drugstore and buy a $5 ring and give that to them... Make sure to roll it around in the dirt first, lol

 

[carl6405]

great idea

 

[carl6405]

What I have found out since last night, is my scenario falls under the "Common Law" which protects the finder of abandon property. Google search.. "if a contractor finds lost money on your property".. basically, if you give permission for someone to metal detect on your property and the detectorist finds something valuable, then because you have given permission, then the finder owns the object.
Abandoned property
Maui Police Department sticker affixed to abandoned cars.
Main articles: Abandonment (legal), Bona vacantia, and Unowned property

Property is generally deemed to have been abandoned if it is found in a place where the true owner likely intended to leave it, but is in such a condition that it is apparent that he or she has no intention of returning to claim it. Abandoned property generally becomes the property of whoever should find it and take possession of it first, although some states have enacted statutes under which certain kinds of abandoned property – usually cars, wrecked ships and wrecked aircraft – escheat, meaning that they become the property of the state.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finders,_keepers
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...keepers/716ca9f2-6c80-4410-bb06-4a66000a4582/
https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/finders_keepers_says_contractor_who_found_182k_in_walls

 

[Mackaydon]

Takeaway: Get a consent agreement with the owner before digging. In that agreement cover the 'what ifs'; including what is to be done with the goodies recovered. Review the forms the Net offers then. choose the one that best fits your circumstances. 'Permission to search' is only Step One in avoiding a potential conflict.
Don....

 

[carl6405]

@Mackaydon..Yes, this would prevent any misunderstanding and lay out the what if's, though in my case, this is my neighbor.. and in every case where i have asked for and received permission, is always under a friendly scenario. Think most people would agree, that the land owner is really doing us a favor in letting us detect on their property and at that time, the last thing anyone wants to do is whip out a legal document and spoil the good gesture vibes going on at that moment. Would think in most cases, the favor to allow you to walk and dig their land would be off the table at that point once legal documents got introduced.

What I am going to have to do now, is pull and print off some articles i have found on line relating to common law "treasure trove" and show her that i actually am legally the owner of this property now.