Swamp Gold

[ivan salis]

ok --I'll put it like this ----its really quite simple---- england and english investors engaged in both selling war goods and supplying cash and backing to the south -- nassau (under english control) was a major illegal blockade running port --and because of it england had to pay money to the US FEDERAL GOVT after the war for " war damages" caused by their "support" of the south ---its a historical fact (I already know this ) however if you want to you can check up on it easily enough yourself if you wish to, and please feel free to do so .--- (that said an education cost --thats why you have to pay to go to college--to have folks that know more than you to "teach" you stuff.) -- you act as thought I 'm writing a college paper and thus have to have to fork over all my sources of info gathered and work due in a effort to "prove" myself "worthy"to you (like your the "professor") -- I do not fall prey to info grubbers tactic --those who milk the work of others by saying "prove it to me" -- in other words you GOT to show me your "sources and work" or I''LL SAY YOUR FULL OF BS (that way they will then know all that I had to work long and hard to learn with no effort on their part --humm gee that sounds "smart" now doesn't it? -- pick my brain for free. (no thanks.)

money (gold / silver) was brought from england to nassau --confederate agants in nassu then sold "war" bonds for cash (with high intersest rates built in--as the war drug on the interest rates grew steeper and steeper) the funds raised by this and money made from the sale of cotton inbound were used to by needed goods and for "money" shipments back to the south --the blockade runners carried a certain amount of on hand working cash -- it was important that the blockade runners have "working money" on hand to buy cargo immedately upon arrival for fast turn around times (quick in / quick out was the blockade runners motto) often the current cargo of cotton sold was sent back the "next trip"-- $50,000 was the normal amount of "working funds" kept on hand --- try reading the blockade runners by dave horner to get some ideal of the mechanics of it .

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

In conclusion, historical research has determined only $70,000 of the gold belonging to the banks in Richmond is missing, but not lost, as it was accounted for in the robbery during its shipment back to Richmond. What remained of the Confederate treasury, in the form of gold and other valuable coins, was disbursed as payroll to Confederate troops during its transport south. By the end of the war, nothing remained in the coffers of the Confederate treasury except for its incalculable amount of debt.

I shouldnt comment on this until I read it in its entirety but the treasure that I am referring to lost in the Everglades is indeed payroll.

"Chased by the enemy, we buried our payroll at a point in the Everglades at a junction of two creeks, where the land rises like a camel's back. The money is buried in the west hump of the rise." quote Confederate paymaster

You've quoted the legend. Have you found any other supporting references, yet? Seems like you have gone in a big circle

Yes, I quoted the legend lol. No, I havent found much because I dont know where or how to search. I am hoping by posting this I will obtain more clues. Thats what TN is for. The story of mint Indian 1861 Indianheads coming out of the well I believe is true. And I also believe the Park Ranger's story of the campsite relics found in the 40's. This guy I deer hunt with father was a park ranger in those years and Im hoping he can help more. His father, who has passed on, has an entire room full of relics collected from the Everglades. Most of them Seminole War but I think there may be some Civil War era finds mixed in by his description. Im trying to work with him and take a first hand look at the items he collected. He found a 4 gauge shotgun mounted in a dugout canoe from the marketing days which he donated. Awesome duck hunting weapon lol.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

yes but look at the date * when the lost everglades payroll event occurred big cy (1863 / 64 time frame)-- its source wasn't from the "last confederate treasury" money train being brought down south (which happened at the very close of the war) ----

Where did you get the 1863/64 time frame? The legend says: Capt. John Riley, trying to ship Confederate gold to Havana in the spring of 1865, was chased into the Everglades by Federal troops, where he buried $ 500,000 in gold bullion...

 

[ivan salis]

swr honestly I'm shocked -- that as a tampa person you are so unaware of your local history that you do not know that the confederate blocakade runners SCOTTISH CHEIFTEN and KATY DALE were burnt and sank in the near by hillsbourgh river during the civil war (the state of florida archies recently found them) -- union forces were attacking these blockade runners which had come from from nassau * carrying supplies and gold in bound from nassau and cotton out bound ( during the attack upon the vessels (oct of 1863--if my memory is correct ) union troops tried to board and take them but had to settlefor burning them as they were driven off by troops from the near by "fort" (the cattle buying fort the gold and supplies was deliver to for reshipment) -- later on ( early 1864) union forces came back and attacked the near by cattle buying fort -- that is the reason the paymaster fled with the funds from the fort into the swamp --it was to prevent their capture by union forces -- I just don't understand how can you NOT know such an important part of your local history?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

yes but look at the date * when the lost everglades payroll event occurred big cy (1863 / 64 time frame)-- its source wasn't from the "last confederate treasury" money train being brought down south (which happened at the very close of the war)-- ---many folks are totally unaware of david yulee's actions in the souths fiscal dealings abroad ---the everglades payroll money came from funds raised in nassau (the bahama's) from the selling of confederate "war" bonds to mainly english backers with what at the time was very high rates of interest should the south win. -- this gold was badly needed to buy florida cattle with --for use by the confederate army from large florida beef farmers ( many who started to balk at taking "confederate paper money" in 1863, they started demanding gold so no matter which way the war went they would be "paid") -- the south also used the nassau money broght over by blockade runners ( like the scottish cheiften and katy dale (sank in the hillsbrough river near tampa *) some of the money was for local payroll and expense's and the excess was often shipped northerly as well ----- the beef buying confederate fort was inshore until it and the blockade runners were attacked****--as a added bonus often the blockade runners often held 50,000 "on hand" to buy needed supplies when they arrived in nassau (the bahamas)

This is all very interesting reading, Ivan...but, might you have some reliable references that would support your opinion? I do believe these accusations of selling "war" bonds towards the end of the war to the English in the Bahamas need to be cited, as well as the accusations of Florida beef farmers demanding gold.

I would also like to see citations (sources) to your claim of how the "funds" from Nassau (Bahamas) were dispersed and where you arrived as the conclusion blockade runners often held $50,000 on hand.

I know this is all supposed to be a 'legend'....but, historical notations need to be supported and cited.

I didnt know about the Bahama part but I posted sources in 2005 where the Florida beef farmers were paid in gold. Some gold coin caches were found, I believe. I dont think the links work anymore.

 

[Oroblanco]

For anyone who wants to research this (or any Civil War incident) one good resource is available online, a complete set of "The war of the rebellion: a compilation of the official records of the Union and Confederate armies." published by the US War Dept at Cornell's excellent "Making Of America" website, this link:

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-...-- Sources.&searchSummary=128 matching books

should bring up a list of the books, there are quite a few books (128) with many running over 1000 pages, but the material included are official reports from the officers involved, letters, memos etc in my opinion a "gold mine" of information for anyone hunting Civil War relics or lost treasure from that period. There is an official military atlas with maps that goes well with this set of reports, don't know of a copy online but it turns up on bookfinder at

http://www.bookfinder4u.com/IsbnSearch.aspx?mode=direct&isbn=0760750440

or perhaps you can find a copy at a local library.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Bridge End Farm]

In conclusion, historical research has determined only $70,000 of the gold belonging to the banks in Richmond is missing, but not lost, as it was accounted for in the robbery during its shipment back to Richmond. What remained of the Confederate treasury, in the form of gold and other valuable coins, was disbursed as payroll to Confederate troops during its transport south. By the end of the war, nothing remained in the coffers of the Confederate treasury except for its incalculable amount of debt.

I shouldnt comment on this until I read it in its entirety but the treasure that I am referring to lost in the Everglades is indeed payroll.

"Chased by the enemy, we buried our payroll at a point in the Everglades at a junction of two creeks, where the land rises like a camel's back. The money is buried in the west hump of the rise." quote Confederate paymaster

you are correct those 3 posts are not on the same stash I believe either I was just showing you some references on it showing the loot Davis had with him as he departed Virginia was not part of the same currency

I know you know about as much as I know on the pennies stashed from what we have shared with each other.
Once I find the reference to the well I will get it to you too I continue to re search for it as much as possible

 

[ivan salis]

the union forces that boarded the vessels and tried to sail off with them as "prizes" found that they were loaded with cotton (ie that means these vessel were loaded for an outbound trip to nassau (the cotton buying port)---and that their "inbound" cargo had already been "off loaded") --I quite sure they had something as a "inbound" cargo -- since wouldn't be much profiet in coming in empty now would there ? why is it so hard to think money would have been carried ?

after being driven off the vessels thus being unable to take them as prizes the union forces as they fled torched the vessels * ( being they were hotly engaged the union forces would not have been able to crack into the iron "money chest safe" which were often bolted into / under the capts bunk .) many of these vessels were "private" owned and the captain's that owned them quite often bought extra personal owned "side cargo" to sell at huge profiets .

fort brook clearly was a transfer point * for funds / suppliesto and from overseas why else would blockade runners be there?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

With all the different versions, I have this gold coming from 4 or 5 possible different scenarios.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks Ivan.




Thanks Mr. O. I have a lot of reading to do and Im sure other treasure hunters are in hot pursuit that are reading this as well... 8)



Thanks also Bridge and SWR.

 

[Bridge End Farm]

With all the different versions, I have this gold coming from 4 or 5 possible different scenarios.

as long as you find it

 

[Oroblanco]

Bigcypresshunter wrote

Thanks Mrs. O

You are welcome amigo, I am Mr O however not Mrs. I hope that you (or some one of us here) will find some of that booty and post photos here so we can drool!

For the heck of it I started looking through the various reports related to Fort Brooke, seems there were quite a few "small" actions occurring there including several incidents of US troops marching into swamps, specifically Twelve Mile Swamp and a certain "cattle pen", perhaps this would relate to the story of a paymaster being pursued into a swamp by Union forces?

Good luck and good hunting,
Oroblanco

 

[ivan salis]

humm cattle pens --you don't say? (nope not a cattle buying fort / not possible ) -- humm us forces chasing confederate folks going into the swamps -- you don't say (no possible way it could be a paymaster) --- humm blockade runners coming in from overseas / taking cotton out bound (no possibilty at all that money came in along with em ) ole doubting thomas is alive and well.

even notice that some folks just tend to suck the life out of a party when they enter the room?

 

[Oroblanco]

Check out this report

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4519-0066

...it mentions the lighthouse lenses "removed by the rebels" and worth "$50,000" (in THEIR DAY) could this count as something worth looking for? It dates to July 1864, and also mentions "lawful prizes" and contraband taken.
Oroblanco

 

[ivan salis]

on may 6 1864 fort brooke and tampa fell to union forces -- the july of 1864 orders to the 3rd uct union troop was to flush out any roaming confederate forces in the area of OLD FORT BROOKE near ocala (far from tampa's fort brooke)-- the name of "old fort brooke" was used since it was a known fort area and point of referance.

 

[Oroblanco]

Here is the report concerning the Cattle Pen incident

<from>
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4519-0065

threats to burn the steamer Salvor by local citizens
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4519-0001

Acting Assistant Paymaster Blakeman accompanying a land raid near Fort Brooke
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4547-0017

Just a few of the incidents, it is easy to see how some of these "stories" are based on actual events of the time.
Oroblanco

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have a lot of studying to do. Thanks Mr. O for the links. If you see a Confederate Captain John Riley, let me know.


The lighthouse lens heist was in Ocala, a 5 hour drive to my north. But interesting. Its probably sunk in a river.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I found this. http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/maps/nat_am/nat_am10.htm

Fort Brooke. Detail of Seat of War in Florida map, forwarded to the War Department by Major Gen. W. Scott, prepared by Lieut. J. E. Johnson. Map shows the route of the Military Road from Fort Brooke (Tampa) to Fort King with an inset of the Battle Ground of Major Dade.
Map Credit: Courtesy of the private collection of Roy Winkelman.

 

[Oroblanco]

You are very welcome amigo Bigcypresshunter, this is not Mrs O however this is Mr. Just did a quick browse and turns up a John Riley as a "Landsman" in this naval report
http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-....edu/cgi-bin/moa/moa-cgi?notisid=ANU4547-0011
however this is a USN person listed as wounded in an action in NC in 1865 so not likely the same person. There are a number of John Rileys in the Official Record, would take some time to read through the reports but he might be listed there. This page

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/moa/moa_search.html

will let you search through the entire holdings of the MOA archive, just type in "John Riley" or whatever you are searching for.

I checked on the Parks service site, (Civil War Soldiers and Sailors System)

http://www.itd.nps.gov/cwss/soldiers.cfm

it brings up quite a few CSA John Riley's but the sailors department is NOT yet set up and working (they are constructing a database, hopefully soon it will turn up) one of these soldiers is listed as a member of 4th Battalion, Virginia Infantry, Local Defense (Naval Battalion) (Navy Department Battalion) CSA so MIGHT be the very Captain John Riley you are researching. There are some resources online like this one

http://www.csnavy.org/
you could try an email to the moderator of that site, [email protected] I have not tried but he might have some info. Also this site
http://www.militaryindexes.com/civilwar/
has links to many resources. Good luck amigo!

As for Fort Brooke and the actions around it,
Account of the battle of Fort Brooke
http://www.americancivilwar.com/statepic/fl/fl004.html
http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/BattleView.Cfm?BID=517

Fort Brooke on Ghosttownusa
http://www.ghosttowns.com/states/fl/fortbrooke.html

A view of Fort Brooke circa 1840

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Roy - Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

PS this interesting snippet came up

The gold was stamped Confederate States of America treasury and was on route ... somewhere in West Central Broward County buried by Captain John Riley. ..

http://borderbooks.dyndns.org/confederate-gold.htm
but can't pull up the page, sounds like quite an interesting story!
Oroblanco