JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[cactusjumper]

Hi, the Jesuits never took a vow of poverty. They were a military order. For interest watch The Mission and if you can obtain the second dvd in the set, it describes how the Indians were used by the Europeans and yes, the Jesuits. Hernando de Soto's actual chronicles should be of interest too.

GG, I believe you are mistaken. Every Jesuit takes a vow of poverty. Always have, from their inception.

"Because of the military background of Ignatius and the members' willingness to accept orders anywhere in the world and to live in extreme conditions where required, the opening lines of this founding document would declare that the Society of Jesus was founded for "whoever desires to serve as a soldier of God"[SUP][3][/SUP] (Spanish: "todo el que quiera militar para Dios"),[SUP][4][/SUP] "to strive especially for the defense and propagation of the faith and for the progress of souls in Christian life and doctrine."[SUP][5][/SUP] Therefore Jesuits are sometimes referred to colloquially as "God's Soldiers"[SUP][6][/SUP] or "God's Marines".[SUP][7][/SUP] The Society participated in the Counter-Reformation and later in the implementation of the Second Vatican Council in the Catholic Church." Because of the military background of Ignatius and the members' willingness to accept orders anywhere in the world and to live in extreme conditions where required, the opening lines of this founding document would declare that the Society of Jesus was founded for "whoever desires to serve as a soldier of God"[SUP][3][/SUP] (Spanish: "todo el que quiera militar para Dios"),[SUP][4][/SUP] "to strive especially for the defense and propagation of the faith and for the progress of souls in Christian life and doctrine."[SUP][5][/SUP] Therefore Jesuits are sometimes referred to colloquially as "God's Soldiers"[SUP][6][/SUP] or "God's Marines".[SUP][7][/SUP] The Society participated in the Counter-Reformation and later in the implementation of the Second Vatican Council in the Catholic Church.(Wikiedia)

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[cactusjumper]

For another view of the Jesuit Order, at least from their perspective, I would recommend books by Father John W. O'Malley especially, "What Happened at Vatican II". Believe he is the best author on the history of the Jesuit Order.....being one himself.

He admits to not having researched the history of the Jesuits in Mexico. I trust him, and if you were ever to get the chance to talk to him, you would as well. I believe Mike McChesney knows him also.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Mastiff4me]

Don Jose', time you get with La Nancy for some hot Hacienda coffee! Smiling. And, Joe. I have never come across so many fabulously intelligent people in one place! I am an avid reader, and have completely and happily enjoyed every one of these threads. Beliefs/ideas may be different, but ALL are FULL of wisdom and passion. I have never found a pile of gold in a cave or in the ground, but when I stumbled upon Treasurenet, I did find a treasure. Each one of you. Regardless of opinion(s), there are deep pearls of knowledge, here. I may not be able to string these kind upon a necklace, but I sure gaze into them on this thread. Now, how about those Padres/Jesuits? Keep it up!!!

 

[cactusjumper]

Jodi,

I don't place myself on that particular list, but I also enjoy many of the posts. Researching these subjects is terrific fun for me. It's all about history.

Thank you for the kind words. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Interesteng Joe, el steak robber, but no where did I find an oath of poverty in your posted data # 1081. Jose

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI jODIE, So it is la Nancy eh ? She won't thank you because I will be bugging her. As for that agitator Joe, he is just a miserable steak robber - even IF he provided it himself - he loves to stir up things by being himself --still I consider my self as one of his friends, as he is mine. BUT that does not protect him, he 'is' nuts !! err slightly off sync. Can you imagine ? he doesn't really think that I have found Atlantis or the Aztec migration that passed through that area. As for your gold & silver, just go dive in that well. Incidentally the plates for the Alamos 8 Reales Coinage are buried in a well greased, goat skin in the floor of the Yocojigua booze factory . (where the tiger ate ) It is closed today, and the floor smells of ancient fermentation, so have fun. With them you can turn out perfect replicas of the Alamos coinage, course you would make them in Gold Be a terricic bit of propaganda for the hotel, to give one to each customer.

Don Jose

P.s. almost forgot, hi to the kiddies and hubby.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Joe, after seeing the picture of jodie, you can see why I asked her mom, NANCY, in front of an interested audience " Nancy, I still think that you should divorce Jim and marry me" She blinked, then replied " but you are already married to the loveliest one in Alamos", I replied "I can easily change my religion

Throughout this Jim simply stood there with a huge grin on his face, a grin of confidence sniffff. hmmmm He had caught on as soon as I had said it.

So ya see Jodie, we were 'almost' family course my Tiger would have had the last word at my funeral.

Incidentally your equally lovely sister, was there and caught on immediately sniffff

 

[deducer]

GG, I believe you are mistaken. Every Jesuit takes a vow of poverty. Always have, from their inception.

Joe,

You mean "a vow of personal poverty."

The motto of the Jesuits is AD MAIOREM DEI GLORIAM, or AMDG, Latin for “for the greater glory of God."

So everything they did, they viewed as being done for the glory of God and not for personal gain. This was the principle upon which they pursued their extremely aggressive agendas in the New World.

 

[cactusjumper]

Interesteng Joe, el steak robber, but no where did I find an oath of poverty in your posted data # 1081. Jose

Don Jose and ye of little faith,

"2. So what’s at the heart of being a Jesuit? Under St. Ignatius, the Society of Jesus believed that reform in the Catholic Church began with reform of the individual. The founding members of the Society of Jesus took a vow of poverty, chastity and obedience under Ignatius. Current Jesuits take the same three vows today, along with a vow of obedience to the Pope."

The Jesuit's vow of poverty can be found in many, many places, including the dozens of books I have concerning Jesuit history. Just enter "Jesuit vow of poverty" in your search engine and take cover. It's fairly obvious, even to the loiks of me, that the Order gathered together a great deal of wealth. The vow of poverty has little to do with the Order itself, but everything to do with the individual priests.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Joe, would you believe that our Jodie has been leading us on a wild goose chase, her father JIM, just sent this to me ------

"Actually Jodi is the author and she wrote a great novel which was published and not offered to the public....but that's a long story."

See, ahe is a naturaL, Along with the sheep lover, to do the story of Tayopa. Sniffff

Jose -
\p.s. not offered tothe public too racy ?

 

[Peyton Manning]

~sigh~ these mysterious coded messages between Mastiff and RTTT make my poor old mind swim.

I hope some day to read the book and have understanding. (you both have excellent IQ's and the grammar is impeccable) {and one of you has pics that are muey bonito}

 

[Peyton Manning]

In addition, if someone has a hotel on a nice (safe) Mexican beach where I can get a discount, count me in!!

Mi playa te amo!

 

[Mastiff4me]

Whoop-whoop! X marks the spot. It is me. I wrote a fictional novel based on the historical happenings of the Spanish enslaving the Indians. Sound familiar? It is situated, however, in New Mexico. It is called Adobe Dreams. My editor was rolling very well with it, until I was informed, it might not appeal enough to my female audience UNLESS threw in a good dose of romance and drama. So, I did. We actually, now, after I hesitated long enough, are going to put it online. It is time. I am very forward about encouraging others who are great writers, to write. But, a bit shy when it comes to presenting my own. No question, I love to write. To wonder. To dream. To imagine, sitting upon facts, what it WAS like.

 

[Mastiff4me]

PS Don Jose. I will be arriving in Late May for 2 weeks. My hubby and kids cannot wait to see you. I will have the coffee pot full and a big table ready for a long adventurous chat in The Agave Cafe'. I am ready to start on the future Epic Bestseller. You KNOW the one. I gave my dad a nice metal detector last year, so I am sure there will be talk about the gringa dashing secretly about in Aduana, Chuchujaqui, and Moquzari. Or, perhaps, just perhaps, no one will see me at all. For I will be navigating through the underground tunnels, after a nice jump into the well. Cowabunga!!! Dreamy. It will be then, I will have a major question, answered, about my theory of the Jesuits and the A. Mint. Speaking of which, I need those plates! Brilliant idea, just brilliant. A+!!!

 

[Peyton Manning]

Whoop-whoop! X marks the spot. It is me. I wrote a fictional novel based on the historical happenings of the Spanish enslaving the Indians. Sound familiar? It is situated, however, in New Mexico. It is called Adobe Dreams. My editor was rolling very well with it, until I was informed, it might not appeal enough to my female audience UNLESS threw in a good dose of romance and drama. So, I did. We actually, now, after I hesitated long enough, are going to put it online. It is time. I am very forward about encouraging others who are great writers, to write. But, a bit shy when it comes to presenting my own. No question, I love to write. To wonder. To dream. To imagine, sitting upon facts, what it WAS like.

Without doubt it is a wonderful book. But the Spanish enslaving the Indians can you say downer? ( rewrite it and have the Indians win this time!)

 

[Mastiff4me]

Without doubt it is a wonderful book. But the Spanish enslaving the Indians can you say downer? ( rewrite it and have the Indians win this time!)

. That is where my fictional twist comes in, Jeff!

 

[Oroblanco]

Jodi, I don't know about Roy's higher education, <snip>

Holy cow Joe you are going to embarrass me completely amigo, and totally un-deserved. I am just a simple boy from the hill country of PA, only have a HS education, did go to gunsmithing school and a few ag courses from Penn state which were pretty specific and of no relation to our mutual interests. I had gotten the impression that our lengthy and detailed discussion on Atlantis was a total waste of your time, by what you said, not sure what you meant now. But thank you for the very kind words, I can only hope to try to live up to them.

To try to tie this back into topic, we who write can usually spot the writers, which is why I guessed it was Jodi whom has the BA and published novel, and was a trapper. (We trappers have to stick together!) I hope the publisher will decide to allow us to buy that book Jodi, I have NO doubt that it is great! And - one last thing but DO write that best seller! Don't follow the lead of our mutual amigo Don Jose', whom has kept us waiting for several years now and we are growing impatient.

One point on Jesuits and the associated treasure tales, I think we went over this aspect earlier, but it is quite possible, even probable, that they ay be associated with some treasures which in reality did not belong to the Order nor the priests. The padres were the paymasters for the soldiers sations on the frontiers, so held Royal funds on a regular basis. During a time of crisis, as for example, an attack by Apaches or Seris etc, the padre might well have taken steps to conceal those funds in a safe place, like in a basement room or wine cellar, cave or mine tunnel. An Indian of the mission whom witnessed this could easily have remembered and re-told the story, and over the generations that act of the padre hiding a box of money which in reality did not belong to the Church or him, became a "Jesuit treasure".

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And to Cactusjumper Joe - you are one of the best read, and most intelligent people I know buddy, so you know you are smarter than me! Besides I believe in a real Atlantis, any history professor can tell you how foolish that is!

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

"you know you are smarter than me!"

I know very little these days.......and it gets worse by the moment. While I still read a great deal, the memories of what I have read are reduced to nagging, subterranean, nudges in a (it's here......somewhere) direction. I know, approximately, which books to look in but would be (somewhat) guessing without them......usually.

In truth, if there's something historical, that I want to know, I just ask my good friend.....Roy.

We do have differing opinions on Plato's Atlantis but I have no doubts that you could be right.

You, Beth and the puppies keep warm,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Holy cow Joe you are going to embarrass me completely amigo, and totally un-deserved. I am just a simple boy from the hill country of PA, only have a HS education, did go to gunsmithing school and a few ag courses from Penn state which were pretty specific and of no relation to our mutual interests. I had gotten the impression that our lengthy and detailed discussion on Atlantis was a total waste of your time, by what you said, not sure what you meant now. But thank you for the very kind words, I can only hope to try to live up to them. To try to tie this back into topic, we who write can usually spot the writers, which is why I guessed it was Jodi whom has the BA and published novel, and was a trapper. (We trappers have to stick together!) I hope the publisher will decide to allow us to buy that book Jodi, I have NO doubt that it is great! And - one last thing but DO write that best seller! Don't follow the lead of our mutual amigo Don Jose', whom has kept us waiting for several years now and we are growing impatient. One point on Jesuits and the associated treasure tales, I think we went over this aspect earlier, but it is quite possible, even probable, that they ay be associated with some treasures which in reality did not belong to the Order nor the priests. The padres were the paymasters for the soldiers sations on the frontiers, so held Royal funds on a regular basis. During a time of crisis, as for example, an attack by Apaches or Seris etc, the padre might well have taken steps to conceal those funds in a safe place, like in a basement room or wine cellar, cave or mine tunnel. An Indian of the mission whom witnessed this could easily have remembered and re-told the story, and over the generations that act of the padre hiding a box of money which in reality did not belong to the Church or him, became a "Jesuit treasure". Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And to Cactusjumper Joe - you are one of the best read, and most intelligent people I know buddy, so you know you are smarter than me! Besides I believe in a real Atlantis, any history professor can tell you how foolish that is! Roy ~ Oroblanco

Roy,

Fact is, there are cases of Jesuits hiding the church "treasures" in caves and having the loyal natives seal them up during times of impending uprisings. When order was restored, the natives would bring back whatever was hidden. One of those dim memories I mentioned.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Just wondering......are you going to have a chapter on the voyage of Hanno?

Take care,

Joe