Jones Gold, Fort Huachuca, Arizona...

[gollum]

It is a very interesting story but highly unlikely.

IPUK

IPUK,

Its easy to say "highly unlikely" without knowledge of all the facts.

I don't know which version of the story you read, but there are some EXTREMELY interesting facts. When SRI (Stanford Research Institute) came in with Quest (Kenworthy) in 1975, between Ground Penetrating Radar, Ground Resistivity, and Sonic Surveys, the team of Stanford Physicists and mining engineers found the entry shaft exactly as described by Jones. They also found a large chamber underneath the rock that was the same size as described by Jones. Only, when SRI did their testing (1975) the rooms were filled with silt. Now, if those rooms were filled with silt, how was Jones able to accurately measure them in 1941?

Multiple sources connected with the Victorio Peak Story also state that at the same time in 1961, when the military was emptying out VP, they were also emptying out the Ft Huachuca Cache.

In Jone's Case, its' not a question of "a friend of a friend saw something." Jones was in that place twice. The second time with a flashlight and a tape measure. He personally saw the gold bars and throne. He accurately measured the size of the cavern (verified 34 years later by SRI). I know this to be accurate because I know Dr Lambert Dolphin, who was the Chief Physicist at SRI for about 35 years, and is widely known as the father of modern ground penetrating radar. Jones also swore to the day he died that he was absolutely certain of everything he witnessed inside that cavern, and that he was telling the truth.

Believe or not, it doesn't make a difference anymore anyway. Nothing left in those tunnels but silt.

Mike

 

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[doc-d]

And we the people benefited from this……heck, we can't get truth from the gov, let alone expect them be honest about finances……
Thank you Señor Gollum……..wonder how many other Treasures they have taken in secret…….

 

[gollum]

And we the people benefited from this……heck, we can't get truth from the gov, let alone expect them be honest about finances……
Thank you Señor Gollum……..wonder how many other Treasures they have taken in secret…….

What really makes one wonder is why do most all large treasure stories occur INSIDE Government Run Lands? Tumacacori=Coronado National Forest, Victorio Peak=San Andres Wildlife Preserve, Lost Dutchman=Tonto National Forest, Lost Hermit John Mine=Sheephole Wilderness Area, Cave with unknown origin artifacts=Grand Canyon, Gordon Smith's Ice Cave Mummies=Grand Canyon National Park, etc etc etc.

Coincidence? Do they know something we don't? Are they just hedging their bets?

Mike

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Gollum
I'm not saying " highly unlikely" in an "easy" way. My judgment is based on certain gaps in the story and the improbability and extreme unlikely hood of certain aspects.
In no way am I doubting tunnels or caverns existed, it just gets a little far-fetched when considering the circumstances and the amount of gold involved .












I would find it highly unlikely Jones would not make more of an attempt on 'disovering' the

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Gold would not make more of an effort to immediately retrieve more of what 'existed'.

There is only Jones' version of what was 'downthere'.

 

[Interested Party in UK]

So I still say highly unlikely.

 

[gollum]

So I still say highly unlikely.

Once again, not looking at THE FACTS.

1. How could Jones have been in the cavern to measure it in 1941? It was full of silt in 1975. There is ABSOLUTELY no other way for Jones to have accurately measured the inside of the cavern unless he had been INSIDE IT. So, based on SRI's Data, we can safely say that unless Jones was a psychic, he would have had to have been inside the cavern in 1941 to measure it accurately. Based on that FACT, I am willing to give some credence to his story.

2. Jones inexplicably got about $900 to spend on a party for his buddies at Huachuca (verified by several people that knew him). Jones said he sold a chunk of one of the bars. How much do you think a Black Army Private made per month in 1941?

Just two things that you can't dismiss and say "highly unlikely".

Another thing, and the biggest tell of all (like I have said a million times), forget what Jones said. Just look at what he did. If he REALLY hadn't seen all that gold in the cavern, does ANYBODY really think he would have spent the rest of his life trying to get back to it? Put yourselves in his place: Lets say you make up a story about finding stacks of gold bars and a golden throne in a cavern. Everybody says you are nutty as a fruitcake. Would you keep coming back to the place and raise a big stink year after year? Get a bunch of professional physicists and mining engineers involved? The simple answer is:

"""""HIGHLY UNLIKELY"""""

Mike

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Once again, not looking at THE FACTS.

1. How could Jones have been in the cavern to measure it in 1941? It was full of silt in 1975. There is ABSOLUTELY no other way for Jones to have accurately measured the inside of the cavern unless he had been INSIDE IT. So, based on SRI's Data, we can safely say that unless Jones was a psychic, he would have had to have been inside the cavern in 1941 to measure it accurately. Based on that FACT, I am willing to give some credence to his story.

2. Jones inexplicably got about $900 to spend on a party for his buddies at Huachuca (verified by several people that knew him). Jones said he sold a chunk of one of the bars. How much do you think a Black Army Private made per month in 1941?

Just two things that you can't dismiss and say "highly unlikely".

Another thing, and the biggest tell of all (like I have said a million times), forget what Jones said. Just look at what he did. If he REALLY hadn't seen all that gold in the cavern, does ANYBODY really think he would have spent the rest of his life trying to get back to it? Put yourselves in his place: Lets say you make up a story about finding stacks of gold bars and a golden throne in a cavern. Everybody says you are nutty as a fruitcake. Would you keep coming back to the place and raise a big stink year after year? Get a bunch of professional physicists and mining engineers involved? The simple answer is:

"""""HIGHLY UNLIKELY"""""

Mike

Now that is twice you have said I am not looking "AT THE FACTS".

But, hey, no problem.

Especially for you, I shall debate the points you have raised and then put some of my own questions out there.

1.How could Jones have been in the cavern to measure it in 1941? It was full of silt in 1975. There is ABSOLUTELY no other way for Jones to have accurately measured the inside of the cavern unless he had been INSIDE IT. So, based on SRI's Data, we can safely say that unless Jones was a psychic, he would have had to have been inside the cavern in 1941 to measure it accurately. Based on that FACT, I am willing to give some credence to his story.

Right. I have said that there is all the likelihood that Jones did actually enter an area like he said he did. What I do query is whether it had all the gold his statement suggests. If you simply base the whole story and say " Based on that FACT, I am willing to give some credence to his story.", then it really doesn't take much to convince then does it? Do you really suggest or believe that an individual would simply take "a small piece of a gold bar" when there was trunks of gold dust, nuggets, a throne, and bars stacked high, and then leave it at that?
Please, that is straining the realms of reality....FACT....Most treasure myths and legends allure to massive hoards being found and then the alleged finders only taking small amounts due to various (mostly silly) reasons and then either losing the location, the hoard never being rediscovered or conspiracy allegations. But if you take all that as FACT, then knock yourself out.


2. "Jones inexplicably got about $900 to spend on a party for his buddies at Huachuca (verified by several people that knew him). Jones said he sold a chunk of one of the bars. How much do you think a Black Army Private made per month in 1941?"


Again, Jones did more than likely get the amount suggested and had a parrrttttyyyy for his mates at Fort Huachuca. But why leave it at that for a further close to 2 decades? A bit flimsy to suggest that the $900 was from a gold treasure purported to be worth $50m-$60M?
If Jones originally accidently discovered the site with his friend and all that was needed was a rope, flashlight, measuring tape, then why not go with another for a second mooch and retrieve some more?? Could not the $900 have been a 'one-off' with nothing more left to discover??

Then you mention that, according to you, the "BIGGEST TELL OF ALL" (I don't really like this capitals business because one can make their point without resorting to it, but I shall assume you prefer it based on your posts), is Jones spending all those years trying to retrieve what he claimed he had seen. Well, if you look at things objectively, without rose-tinted and romantic and partial and 'wanting to believe' spectacles, why wait that long in the first place?? History is littered with folks who have honestly convinced themselves they "saw" or "witnessed" a place or event and its nothing more than an chimera. You contradict yourself on many points by asking "what was a Black privateers pay in 1941?"
Isn't that even more reason to try and recover this alleged treasure?

Simply quoting the SRI data is irrelevant. All that proves is that Jones probably did enter a cavern there, but that is not the crux of the matter. What is, is da GOLD!
If he had taken a few bars, nuggets, dust and tried sooner to retrieve it, then it would have made more sense. Why didn't he partner that he was hiking with try anything??

Many of these treasure legends/myths/stories have a reoccurring theme, I just like to deal in FACTS that can be evidenced without too many holes/gaps/peculiarities in the whole shebang.

So again I say "highly unlikely".

Hope that helps

IPUK

 

[gollum]

IPUK,

I use caps for emphasis. Since we are not face to face, and nobody can hear the inflections in my voice, I have to use other methods to give emphasis to different things I think need to be emphasized. Some people use emoticons, I use caps.

Now to your statement:

That is a ridiculous statement. If Jones had been in the cavern, and there was no gold, then why in the hell would he come back 18 years later and make such a big stink about it. If you are correct, he would have known he would have been embarrassed when they opened up his cavern and found nothing! Why would ANYBODY do such a thing to themselves? Does not make a lick of sense to spend so much time and effort to get back into the cavern KNOWING it would be empty.

Your question about why did he wait 18 years is a good question. I didn't know Robert Jones, so I can't say why he waited so long. I can tell you this: The Jesuits were reinstated as an Order of the Catholic Church in 1814, and yet in Rio de Janeiro in 1891 (77 years after their reinstatement), contractors found 70,000,000 (seventy million) Gold Spanish Dollars, 2,800 pounds of gold dust, and 20,000 pounds of gold bars in the cellars underneath the old Jesuit College. Since the Jesuits were back in force for 77 years, why didn't they go and claim what was theirs? Doc Noss was murdered in 1949. Why did Tony Jolley wait until the 1960s before going out to find the gold bars he helped Doc bury the night before Doc was murdered? There is no accounting for why anybody does anything they do. The United States was a different place in the 1940s. Blacks couldn't vote. They were denied most of the civil rights that whites enjoyed. Had to use separate bathrooms, drink from separate water fountains, etc, etc, etc. What I do know is that he was telling the truth about being in the cavern. He was telling the truth about the entrance shaft into the cavern. Knowing what we now know about Victorio Peak and Willie Douthit's Cave of 2000 forty pound gold bars, why is it so hard to go a little further and believe the rest of what he said? If Jones had been proven to be a liar, I would be on your side here. Scientific Testing Equipment proved that he was telling the truth about the entrance and the cavern, but thats where it stops for you.

Its not a question of Rose Tinted Glasses, or daydreaming. Its about giving a man proven to have told the truth about some of his story the benefit of the doubt about the rest. Very simple. His friends knew him to be a straight shooter, when confronted, his old Sergeant remembered him as being a very good soldier. So, just because you find the story to be fantastical, you feel comfortable calling this man a liar (in effect). You are doing something that NOT ONE of any of the people that knew him did. I think your position says more about you than it does about Jones or his story.

Mike

 

[doc-d]

Senor Gollum, been reading this thread and I definitely side with you……..seems like any attempt to reason with IPUK is an exercise in futility.
I appreciate your kind and civil discourse.
The internet allows for some wonderful things, the ability to discuss and learn from people all around the world………and yet, at times I am frustrated by such distance in not being able to reach out and knock some sense into those deserving it……..

Feliz Navidad y prospero ano mis amigos……vaya con Dios (this includes you too Senor IPUK)

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Senor Gollum, been reading this thread and I definitely side with you……..seems like any attempt to reason with IPUK is an exercise in futility.
I appreciate your kind and civil discourse.
The internet allows for some wonderful things, the ability to discuss and learn from people all around the world………and yet, at times I am frustrated by such distance in not being able to reach out and knock some sense into those deserving it……..

Feliz Navidad y prospero ano mis amigos……vaya con Dios (this includes you too Senor IPUK)

Keep your sense as well as your god's vaya business thank you very much 'doc-d'.

Believe it or not, my posts are not made to garner "sides" as you put it.

IPUK

 

[Interested Party in UK]

I forgot 'doc-d', your another chap who has 'issues' with the US government. I can understand your viewpoint on that basis.

IPUK

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK,

I use caps for emphasis. Since we are not face to face, and nobody can hear the inflections in my voice, I have to use other methods to give emphasis to different things I think need to be emphasized. Some people use emoticons, I use caps.

Now to your statement:

That is a ridiculous statement. If Jones had been in the cavern, and there was no gold, then why in the hell would he come back 18 years later and make such a big stink about it. If you are correct, he would have known he would have been embarrassed when they opened up his cavern and found nothing! Why would ANYBODY do such a thing to themselves? Does not make a lick of sense to spend so much time and effort to get back into the cavern KNOWING it would be empty.

Your question about why did he wait 18 years is a good question. I didn't know Robert Jones, so I can't say why he waited so long. I can tell you this: The Jesuits were reinstated as an Order of the Catholic Church in 1814, and yet in Rio de Janeiro in 1891 (77 years after their reinstatement), contractors found 70,000,000 (seventy million) Gold Spanish Dollars, 2,800 pounds of gold dust, and 20,000 pounds of gold bars in the cellars underneath the old Jesuit College. Since the Jesuits were back in force for 77 years, why didn't they go and claim what was theirs? Doc Noss was murdered in 1949. Why did Tony Jolley wait until the 1960s before going out to find the gold bars he helped Doc bury the night before Doc was murdered? There is no accounting for why anybody does anything they do. The United States was a different place in the 1940s. Blacks couldn't vote. They were denied most of the civil rights that whites enjoyed. Had to use separate bathrooms, drink from separate water fountains, etc, etc, etc. What I do know is that he was telling the truth about being in the cavern. He was telling the truth about the entrance shaft into the cavern. Knowing what we now know about Victorio Peak and Willie Douthit's Cave of 2000 forty pound gold bars, why is it so hard to go a little further and believe the rest of what he said? If Jones had been proven to be a liar, I would be on your side here. Scientific Testing Equipment proved that he was telling the truth about the entrance and the cavern, but thats where it stops for you.

Its not a question of Rose Tinted Glasses, or daydreaming. Its about giving a man proven to have told the truth about some of his story the benefit of the doubt about the rest. Very simple. His friends knew him to be a straight shooter, when confronted, his old Sergeant remembered him as being a very good soldier. So, just because you find the story to be fantastical, you feel comfortable calling this man a liar (in effect). You are doing something that NOT ONE of any of the people that knew him did. I think your position says more about you than it does about Jones or his story.

Mike

You really cannot debate your point of view without resorting to personal and childish insults. That says a lot about you and your upbringing.

There is so much contradictory nonsense in what you say and holes the size of the Grand Canyon in the alleged story. Nobody has accused Jones of outright lying - this is something you've wanted to see and have said so based on your own prejudices. When you read something that disagrees with your own stance, do so with a more calm demeanour and perhaps you'll see what was actually said as oppose to what you think was said. You blatantly pick and choose what you respond to and what you accept as the 'truth'. Whatever sails you boat sunshine.

From now on I will refuse to engage with some of the obvious cack and nonsensical self-absorbed on here.

IPUK

PS. Cover your bold head in the sun, maybe that is a cause of some of your ramblings. Coming to think of it, I am really glad that our viewpoints differ. It proves that I am still sane!!!

 

[H-2 CHARLIE]

UK seems to disagree with anything everyone thinks . some negativity cloud that follows you .

 

[doc-d]

And he makes up crap also…….
Pathetic comes to mind…...

 

[Interested Party in UK]

And he makes up crap also…….
Pathetic comes to mind…...

"Crap"?

Maybe it's all an imagination - "ussa"?, "govt. Conspiracies"? , Egyptians in the us and so on..!

Perhaps someone hacked your account and thanked and'liked' my comments!

Whose the pathetic one makin up the crap?

 

[txtea]

You really cannot debate your point of view without resorting to personal and childish insults. That says a lot about you and your upbringing.

There is so much contradictory nonsense in what you say and holes the size of the Grand Canyon in the alleged story. Nobody has accused Jones of outright lying - this is something you've wanted to see and have said so based on your own prejudices. When you read something that disagrees with your own stance, do so with a more calm demeanour and perhaps you'll see what was actually said as oppose to what you think was said. You blatantly pick and choose what you respond to and what you accept as the 'truth'. Whatever sails you boat sunshine.

From now on I will refuse to engage with some of the obvious cack and nonsensical self-absorbed on here.

IPUK

PS. Cover your bold head in the sun, maybe that is a cause of some of your ramblings. Coming to think of it, I am really glad that our viewpoints differ. It proves that I am still sane!!!

Hogwash.
Gollum (Mike) has always provided facts and theories based on his extensive research online and elsewhere, talking to people in the know, and boots on the ground.
Tells you like it is and doesn't try to bulls*** anyone with senseless fantasy crap.
You might try digging into this story a little (lot) deeper before you jump on someone that has done the research.
His baldness keeps making the tinfoil hat fall off....which is a good thing.

 

[tomjiggy]

Gollum, When I get settled in Phoenix maybe we can hook up for an outing there on Ft Huachuca. I'll have access as I'll be retired and I might be able to sweet talk some details into the equation. However, I have to expect denial of permission or details when we do get there. The military is going to want dibs if we do find something like that, but more than likely the area that it might be will probably be a high impact range that we won't be able to get into. Endangered species are also going to be a problem if that becomes a factor. But it sounds like an adventure, and I'm all for adventure.

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Try checking what I said compared to what your friend thinks I said.

Then see where the hogwash is.

Talk about jumping the gun!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Alright, please end these attacks and insults now! Please don't force a mod to step in...